General Russia Invades Ukraine

gREVUS

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
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That is Zelensky's problem set though isn't?
if your talking about the invasion of his country then sure.
If your talking about the Ukraine wanting closer links with NATO then no. To quote Putin "as a sovereign country they will do whatever is in their own best interests. And they will not let some other country dictate to them".
The Nazis are a red hearing that Putin is exploiting to sell his agenda within Russia. A true bogeyman that the Russians people fear and revile.

Putin is a classic bully. He will throw his weight around and then when things dont go his way will use all his made up rules to stop you from doing the same.

The Ukraine is a sovereign nation and they can do as they damn well please - right up until they invade another country to enforce their beliefs onto others. In this they are no different than any other including the US and Russia.
 
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Mr Frank White

Mr Frank White

if your talking about the invasion of his country then sure.
If your talking about the Ukraine wanting closer links with NATO then no. To quote Putin "as a sovereign country they will do whatever is in their own best interests. And they will not let some other country dictate to them".
The Nazis are a red hearing that Putin is exploiting to sell his agenda within Russia. A true bogeyman that the Russians people fear and revile.

Putin is a classic bully. He will throw his weight around and then when things dont go his way will use all his made up rules to stop you from doing the same.

The Ukraine is a sovereign nation and they can do as they damn well please - right up until they invade another country to enforce their beliefs onto others. In this they are no different than any other including the US and Russia.
Bro your going off on a bit of a tangent. Sure I get what your saying.
But the original comment was about Zelensky and the invasion of Ukraine
So in essence, he is stuck between RUS, NATO and UKR hardliners. Acknowledging that fact isn't anything sinister.
 
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gREVUS

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
Bro your going off on a bit of a tangent. Sure I get what your saying.
But the original comment was about Zelensky and the invasion of Ukraine
So in essence, he is stuck between RUS, NATO and UKR hardliners. Acknowledging that fact isn't anything sinister.
i guess i just hate a bully, whether its the US, Russia or the kid down the road.
IMO he isnt stuck between NATO and Russia. The Ukraine is a sovereign country and entitled to do what it wants with out being threatened by invasion.

Does Nato exist, sure. Did they somehow do anything to cause Putin to invade. No and nor could they unless they invaded first. Saying anything else gives credence to Putins view that the Ukraine had no rights somehow to hold any relationships it wanted. Putin likes to talk about the Ukraine and NATO as something he has a say in. This is only defensible if you accept that Putin and Russia somehow hold some form of greater sovereignty over the Ukraine.
 
Mr Frank White

Mr Frank White

i guess i just hate a bully, whether its the US, Russia or the kid down the road.
IMO he isnt stuck between NATO and Russia. The Ukraine is a sovereign country and entitled to do what it wants with out being threatened by invasion.

Does Nato exist, sure. Did they somehow do anything to cause Putin to invade. No and nor could they unless they invaded first. Saying anything else gives credence to Putins view that the Ukraine had no rights somehow to hold any relationships it wanted. Putin likes to talk about the Ukraine and NATO as something he has a say in. This is only defensible if you accept that Putin and Russia somehow hold some form of greater sovereignty over the Ukraine.
Huh??

You misunderstand I think. The pressure comes from NATO powers arming and funding Ukraine. They have to desire to see a prolonged drawn out conflict, if they can't achieve a defeat of Russian forces.
So in essence even if Zelensky wanted to negotiate, there is pressure not to.
 
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Mr Frank White

Mr Frank White

A thing you learn in intelligence and other professions is stakeholder analysis. You have to know the players on the game, and what their win conditions are. Some of these are complicated asf. To name a few.

Ukraine
Russia
US
NATO
Poland
Moldova
Chechnya
Belarus
Georgia

Each of these players has their own agenda
 
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Worried2Death

Worried2Death

A thing you learn in intelligence and other professions is stakeholder analysis. You have to know the players on the game, and what their win conditions are. Some of these are complicated asf. To name a few.

Ukraine
Russia
US
NATO
Poland
Moldova
Chechnya
Belarus
Georgia

Each of these players has their own agenda
To add to this, Zelensky also has a personal family heritage of hundreds of years of being surrounded by anti-semites on all sides, in Russia and the west. Which perhaps makes him uniquely qualified to walk that delicate tightrope in his current position, as well as adding another level of absurdity to some of Putin's nazi rhetoric, to a lot of westerners watching on CNN anyway. That's certainly a lot of agendas to juggle though, luckily he's a trained juggler from his time as a circus clown.
 
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Sup42

Sup42

Some click bait headlines doing the rounds about Russian Generals being sacked for the failed invasion of Ukraine.

But at least this time they name names....therefore confirmation that the cheif of General staff Valery Garasimov has been fired shouldn't be too hard to confirm....after all he is a senior General of Russian forces.

Reminds me a lot of Adolf Hitler if true. Hitler of course famously turned on his finest officers including feild Marshall Rommel.

Now before Frank gets upset let me be clear, I stated click bait very clearly in my post, and I referenced Adolf Hitler as a politician who turned on millitary figures....quite distinctly from comparing Putin to the Nazi regime.

Like I said, it is super easy to fact check whether known Russian command members have been moved side ways or backwards or left right out.
 
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bruce

bruce

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Reminds me a lot of Adolf Hitler if true. Hitler of course famously turned on his finest officers including feild Marshall Rommel.
Maybe the fact that Rommel was implicated in the assassination attempt had a little to do with it. Hitler was gutted to have to execute him.
 
bruce

bruce

Contributor
Rand Paul, the nutty GOP senator has personally held up the bill to supply US$40 billion in aid to Ukraine.

Ok, he quite rightly points out how many bridges it could build in the US....but also...
in 2018 he personally visited Putin, in the Kremlin, and gave him a handwritten note from Trump...also Trump today spoke against the aid package.

Nothing to see there eh?
 
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gREVUS

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
Huh??

You misunderstand I think. The pressure comes from NATO powers arming and funding Ukraine. They have to desire to see a prolonged drawn out conflict, if they can't achieve a defeat of Russian forces.
So in essence even if Zelensky wanted to negotiate, there is pressure not to.
yep your right i misunderstood your intent
 
Noitall

Noitall

About 10 o clock tonight we’ll learn Finland’s decision whether to join nato or not. Could have a big bearing on what comes next.
 
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Mr Dragon

Mr Dragon

Rand Paul, the nutty GOP senator has personally held up the bill to supply US$40 billion in aid to Ukraine.

Ok, he quite rightly points out how many bridges it could build in the US....but also...
in 2018 he personally visited Putin, in the Kremlin, and gave him a handwritten note from Trump...also Trump today spoke against the aid package.

Nothing to see there eh?
America is in debt, they don't have 40 billion to give, they have to get a loan from China 🤣
 
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bruce

bruce

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America is in debt, they don't have 40 billion to give, they have to get a loan from China 🤣
$40 billion is massive, but the cost of letting Russia carry on is also massive.

The world has been here before after WWII. They know it would have been much cheaper to stop Hitler after he invaded the Sudetenland.

If I had to guess, I would say that after next January, with a GOP in control of congress and the senate, and the right wing gaining influence in Hungary and France, there will be more pressure on Ukraine to settle.

If the fight in Ukraine is over democracy, it is almost stuffed in Merka, how bloody ironic.
 
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Worried2Death

Worried2Death

America is in debt, they don't have 40 billion to give, they have to get a loan from China 🤣
Xi's boys play the long game, indirectly funding the Ukrainians through the US while encouraging Putin to keep up the good work against the nazis. Confucius said play both sides and eventually you own the game.
 
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Noitall

Noitall

$40 billion is massive, but the cost of letting Russia carry on is also massive.

The world has been here before after WWII. They know it would have been much cheaper to stop Hitler after he invaded the Sudetenland.

If I had to guess, I would say that after next January, with a GOP in control of congress and the senate, and the right wing gaining influence in Hungary and France, there will be more pressure on Ukraine to settle.

If the fight in Ukraine is over democracy, it is almost stuffed in Merka, how bloody ironic.

Things like this can have a bearing when Russia has a lot of people and if their childrens corpses are piling up and they can’t even bring them home for burial the people may rise up, propaganda can’t be controlled in modern technology. I actually think there could be a big appetite for democracy there, if enough likeminded people rise up, sometimes it’s enough to overthrow it all. It could be that democracy falls in America as it rises in Russia. The amount of protesters out against the abortion rights changes show it won’t be lost without a fight.
 
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Noitall

Noitall

Xi's boys play the long game, indirectly funding the Ukrainians through the US while encouraging Putin to keep up the good work against the nazis. Confucius said play both sides and eventually you own the game.
They already declared war on the world when they released a virus that fucked every country. I don’t buy it as an accident anymore, it’s the changing of the guard. China has arrived.
 
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Worried2Death

Worried2Death


Things like this can have a bearing when Russia has a lot of people and if their childrens corpses are piling up and they can’t even bring them home for burial the people may rise up, propaganda can’t be controlled in modern technology. I actually think there could be a big appetite for democracy there, if enough likeminded people rise up, sometimes it’s enough to overthrow it all. It could be that democracy falls in America as it rises in Russia. The amount of protesters out against the abortion rights changes show it won’t be lost without a fight.
Not sure if the internet has made propoganda better or worse, Russia, China, NK all seem to have achieved heavily censored media with modern tech.
 
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Worried2Death

Worried2Death

They already declared war on the world when they released a virus that fucked every country. I don’t buy it as an accident anymore, it’s the changing of the guard. China has arrived.
Bloody ell, sounds like we're fucked then mate. This calls for some Bob Dylan

I for one welcome our new ccp overlords and have always said they're a great bunch of fellas, and I'd like it noted at my show trial that I do not know Noitall and in no way support his outrageous claims and misguided western views.

 
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Noitall

Noitall

Not sure if the internet has made propoganda better or worse, Russia, China, NK all seem to have achieved heavily censored media with modern tech.
That’s true but people have family and friends all over the world and can find things from places that they sometimes can’t control and then the message spreads. There was stories recently of the Chinese people criticising they’re government but instead of using China as what they were complaining about, they replaced it with America so the authorities didn’t pick up on it. I actually feel like just like Russia, there may be an appetite for democracy in China also. When the population is so huge, people need to be happy to a degree. But as you say has technology contributed to propaganda, it has in the Phillipines when Duterte has them all on facebook and feeds his bullshit to them.
 
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