General Russia Invades Ukraine

Viking

Viking

Putin has many faults and lots of problems at home. However, over 30 years since the fall of communism and the separation of the Soviet Union, NATO despite promises to Russia has continued to advance Eastward. Now despite Russia declaring it a no go. NATO is openly courting Ukraine. Despite Russia repeatedly wanting limits to NATO set. Russia's concerned were dismissed out of hand. This is very recent. They called for Russia to de escalate while sending arms to Ukraine.

On 22/6/1941 the Nazis invaded Russia through Ukraine, as a result Russia lost up to 28 million people, so foreign forces in Ukraine provokes a larger fear in ordinary Russians, where very few families did not suffer losses in WW2. On top of that the US backed coup in 2014 had a strong neo nazi element which alarmed the Russians, which is reasonable given history.

On the other hand Ukrainians have reasonable resentment of Russians due to the forced famines in the 1920-30s. Significant numbers of Ukrainians welcomed the Nazis in 1941 and helped them throughout. Once given power in 2014 the first laws passed were anti Russian language and culture. Hence we have the Crimea and Donbass situations because both areas are Russia ethnically.

The answer to me is to remove the ultranationalist right wing from the Ukrainian Government and establish a form of neutrality between Russia and Ukraine. First being no NATO. Ukraine is an independent nation but needs to either peacefully let those who want emigrate to Russia or cede the Donbass to Russia.

All this has been stirred up by the US, Ukraine deserves security and so does Russia. My view is get the Yanks the hell out of it. There are many points of argument between Ukraine and Russia, but historically there are many family and social ties. All neighbours have to learn to live together, friendly and respectfully is the best way. That can be achieved if the West keeps out.
Why is the US meddling in that particular area? What's in it for them?
 
snake77

snake77

As much as Russia say they aren't going to attack civilians as we have seen with America and air strikes they miss their target and cause a lot of damage. Even take air strikes out of the equation marching tanks and soldiers through civilian areas and having exchanges as they attempt to take various towns and the Ukrainians try to defend the area civilians will get injured if they haven't managed to flee the area.

The first war I can remember was the first gulf war which had a lot of coverage. Since then we have seen media getting close to the action which can provide footage that is a bit to close too home. Now with social media people within the area can capture footage themselves so we could see some really up close footage. Years ago it was only stuff you heard if someone that went off to war was willing to talk about it.

Can see in modern society people staying back and risking their lives to get footage for their social media coverage or just for the thrill of it.
 
Juju

Juju

This shit makes me sick to my stomach an the same feeling I got when that sack of shit went mental in Christchurch. I hope when the time comes for these sub human arseholes to face judgment they are dealt with accordingly 🤬
it's just so damn wrong and utterly unnecessary.
 
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drake83

Apparently China is in the taliban air forces.
They came in after we left.
The taliban have more black hawks than great Britain thanks Joe for leaving like you did.
We need to side Russia away from China they are the real elephant in the room.
Could be the state they need to grab power.
 
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snake77

snake77

In war the innocent suffer the most.
And the politicians that start it relax in comfort. There have been some good anti war songs over the years. Still think Black Sabbath with War Pigs cut to the heard of it.


Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerer of death's construction

In the fields, the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh lord, yeah!

Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeah

Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgement day comes, yeah!
 
Worried2Death

Worried2Death

And the politicians that start it relax in comfort. There have been some good anti war songs over the years. Still think Black Sabbath with War Pigs cut to the heard of it.Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerer of death's constructionIn the fields, the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh lord, yeah!Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeahTime will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgement day comes, yeah!
No. 1 on Vlad's spotify playlist:

 
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Beastmode

Beastmode

Just another day in paradise
Contributor

Russia's Ukraine invasion is not just about borders or power. For Putin, it's about identity​


This is the sort of war the West does not know how to fight.

It is not just about territory, borders, resources, or power. It is existential — it is about identity.

Vladimir Putin has made it clear Ukraine is part of the soul of Russia. And he is prepared to crush the souls of Ukrainians to achieve his ends.

Yes, Putin has made security demands, he wants the West out of what he sees as Russia's sphere of influence. He wants a cast-iron guarantee Ukraine can never join NATO.

But it is the "why" that is more important than the "what" here.

Why? Because to Putin, there is no Ukraine without Russia. They are one.

Putin said so: there is no Ukrainian sovereignty. Putin sees Ukraine as Russian land essential to Putin's idea of Russkiy Mir (Russian World). It is about Russian language, culture: it is blood and soil.

It is mythological. Russkiy Mir is holy: central is Russian orthodox faith.

To Russian nationalists like Putin, Ukraine's capital Kyiv is the mother of all Russian cities.

This is why Putin famously called the collapse of the Soviet Union "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the twentieth century". It is oft-repeated, not as often understood.

Putin wants Russia back​

Putin doesn't want communism back, he wants Russia back. The catastrophe wasn't the collapse of Marxism-Leninism, it was the suffering of the people.

Russian-speaking Slavic people were cut adrift — as Putin sees it — from mother Russia.

Why can't the West fight this? Because the West doesn't even understand it. The West is meant to be a place beyond identity.

This is everything the West is not. The modern West grew out of Reformation and Enlightenment. It was about liberation. In the West we change citizenship, we move countries, we swap or abandon religions.

Pluralism and multiculturalism have been hallmarks of progress. We celebrate diversity as a strength. But the success of the West poses harder and harder questions.

Liberal democracy is staggering under the weight of growing inequality, contested rights and political tribalism.

What binds us? We appear ever rootless, not rooted.

Not everyone, of course. Roots matter to some, but liberal democracy can leave us unmoored: it hollows out our communities, mocks tradition, banishes faith from the public square.

Liberalism elevates the individual to the point of alienation. Scholar Patrick Deneen charted this decline in his book, Why Liberalism Failed. It has lost its moral and political core, he argues:
"Today's widespread yearning for a strong leader, one with the will to take back popular control over liberalism's forms of bureaucratised government and globalised economy, comes after decades of liberal dismantling of cultural norms and political habits essential to self-governance."
The modern West is less village square than city centre. Yes, there are "somewheres", as the British writer David Goodhart put it, but inexorably we seem to be on a journey to "anywhere".

In the West, Putin sees weakness​

This is a demographic, economic and cultural fault line that runs through the liberal pluralist West and it is increasingly political. It is a battle over what the West is, and who is prepared to defend it.

It cuts across religious freedom, LGTB rights, race, gender and class. It divides the rural from the urban.

And Vladimir Putin sees it as a weakness. He has castigated the West for its culture wars and its corrosive identity politics.

Meanwhile, Putin himself plays identity writ large. He plays it hard. When it comes to national identity, when it comes to Russian civilisation, Putin shows none of the self-doubts he sees in the West.

Putin is a product of our age. As globalisation has continued apace, there has been a blowback, a return to borders, tradition, religion, race. The return of the tribe.

And it has set the world ablaze. The Nobel prize-winning economist Amartya Sen best summed this up with his phrase "solitarist identity". He means that our world turns toxic when we are reduced to one essential thing: our race or our religion or our nation.

Then, we fail to see ourselves in each other. This, Sen says, is where identity meets violence. Solitarist identity, he says, "kills and kills with abandon".

The West has been dragged into the wars of identity. Think of the last few decades. The ethnic cleansing of Rwanda, the conflict in the Balkans and the break-up of the old Yugoslavia. The blood feud of Shia versus Sunni Muslim, Hindu against Muslim, the persecution of Rohingya in Myanmar.

"Who are you?" is the most dangerous question in the world.

These are wars never won. After two decades in Afghanistan, the US fled, leaving the Taliban to return to a country lacerated by identity conflict.

The West's War on Terror has not quelled the lure of radical Islam. A new generation of Muslims raised in the West, angry and disillusioned, has swelled the ranks of Al Qaeda and ISIS.

Breaking Ukraine's will, enacting revenge​

French philosopher Jacques Derrida spoke of those "who have bread of apocalypse in their mouths": those filled with vengeance and grievance, haunted by the past, who see only unending catastrophe.

Western modernity holds no allure for them. Putin has Derrida's "bread of apocalypse" in his mouth.

He has unleashed a war of identity on Ukraine to stop its drift to the West, break its will, and in no small part to exact revenge on Western nations he believes have humiliated Russia.

Michel Eltchaninoff, the author of the book Inside the Mind of Vladimir Putin, says vengeance explains much of his crackdown against dissidents inside Russia and his attacks on enemies outside Russia. After two decades in power, Eltchaninoff says, Putin was about "revenge — against those protesting his return to power and against the West".

As the West has battled the wars of identity abroad, those same battles have exploded within the West itself.

Nations like America face foes without and within. The most powerful country in the world is a nation unsure of itself. Certainly, it is unprepared at this point to fight Putin in Ukraine and is looking to redeem and rejuvenate a sense of its own identity.

America was always an idea: as Abraham Lincoln said, a nation "dedicated" to a "proposition". But the idea of "out of many, one people" struggles to speak to the souls of those who seek only the one.

And watching this is Xi Jinping. The Chinese leader believes this is his time. His China Dream is within reach.

He believes in one people, one China, one identity. He has Taiwan in his sights. Potentially the mother of all identity wars.

Stan Grant is the ABC's international affairs analyst and presents China Tonight on Monday at 9:35pm on ABC TV, and Tuesday at 8pm on the ABC News Channel.
 
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Navigator

Navigator

Christchurch Born n bred white bait fed.
Contributor

Turkish ship hit by bomb off coast of Ukraine​

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Author image
Emma BrazellThursday 24 Feb 2022 5:14 pm

A Turkish ship has reportedly been struck by a bomb off the coast of Odessa in Ukraine after Vladimir Putin launched an ‘onslaught on the free and sovereign nation’.
There were no casualties and it is safely en route into Romanian waters, Turkey’s Maritime General Directorate said.
But the incident is likely to add to mounting fears that Nato could be eventually forced to wage a defensive war against Russia.
The alliance has ruled out military action as Ukraine is not a member – but Turkey is one of the 30 countries in Nato.
 
bruce

bruce

Contributor

Turkish ship hit by bomb off coast of Ukraine​

Comment
Author image
Emma BrazellThursday 24 Feb 2022 5:14 pm

A Turkish ship has reportedly been struck by a bomb off the coast of Odessa in Ukraine after Vladimir Putin launched an ‘onslaught on the free and sovereign nation’.
There were no casualties and it is safely en route into Romanian waters, Turkey’s Maritime General Directorate said.
But the incident is likely to add to mounting fears that Nato could be eventually forced to wage a defensive war against Russia.
The alliance has ruled out military action as Ukraine is not a member – but Turkey is one of the 30 countries in Nato.
Putin has lost the plot. Fiona Hill picked that weeks ago. Russia might win this battle but it isn't going to win the war.

In the meantime if he picks on any NATO member they are all obligated to join in, and they will, including Merka.

Apparently Latvia is the next target.

The trouble with ruthless dictators is there is no recrement home, just a wooden box.

Putin is fighting for his life here.