General Running from Depth

jono_t2000_old

Guest
I was just wandering does anyone out there know why all the Warriors especially the backs have a trend to be flat footed and standing still when recieving the ball.

I havent seen it in a long time when the Warriors have had a staggered deep backline where they can run from depth and cut angles and stuff.

I know this aint union but still surely running onto the ball is goingt o be better then recieving the ball and then having to beat a player.
 

MarkW_old

Guest
Yeah, I'm not sure why either, jono.

Maybe the modern game requires a flatter backline to hit the advantage line sooner.. or to run shorter angles .. I don't know.

I always thought a backline with depth meant harder and faster running on to the ball - generally making it more difficult for the opposition to cope with.

Toopi's step definitely works a lot better when he is running at speed rather than hopping sideways from one foot to another... seriously , how many times has he beaten a defender doing the jig?
Ropati and Vatuvei would also be mor edangerous if they could get some speed up.
 

marecko_old

Guest
flat footed

yeh jono fa bro, they play like shit sometimes when i c one out running and no one hitting the ball at pace in the backline i just want 2 skull a doz reds and smash over wheelie binz[/quote]
 

Paul Holmes_old

Guest
Re: flat footed

marecko said:
yeh jono fa bro, they play like shit sometimes when i c one out running and no one hitting the ball at pace in the backline i just want 2 skull a doz reds and smash over wheelie binz
[/quote]
haha i love this guy
 

ozbash_old

Guest
jono_t2000 said:
I was just wandering does anyone out there know why all the Warriors especially the backs have a trend to be flat footed and standing still when recieving the ball.

I havent seen it in a long time when the Warriors have had a staggered deep backline where they can run from depth and cut angles and stuff.

I know this aint union but still surely running onto the ball is goingt o be better then recieving the ball and then having to beat a player.

yea, it looks pretty slack at times. i get upset when the forwards catch the ball, then run !! just like we used to do when we were 7.

makes me feel like scullin a doz red bulls and dealin to a rubbish bag,,, a full one too cuz.. :evil:
 

sebastian_old

Guest
MarkW said:
Yeah, I'm not sure why either, jono.

Maybe the modern game requires a flatter backline to hit the advantage line sooner.. or to run shorter angles .. I don't know.

I always thought a backline with depth meant harder and faster running on to the ball - generally making it more difficult for the opposition to cope with.

Toopi's step definitely works a lot better when he is running at speed rather than hopping sideways from one foot to another... seriously , how many times has he beaten a defender doing the jig?
Ropati and Vatuvei would also be mor edangerous if they could get some speed up.

Espescially Vatuvei hes huge for a winger, it'd be like getting a STRIKE in ten pin bowling
 

PHANTOM MENACE_old

Guest
Re: flat footed

marecko said:
yeh jono fa bro, they play like shit sometimes when i c one out running and no one hitting the ball at pace in the backline i just want 2 skull a doz reds and smash over wheelie binz
[/quote]

WTF
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
Player's should be 'in motion' as much as possible, in my opinion.

IE, forwards when hitting the ball up should receive the ball flat, but with already 5-10 metres under their belt so not accelerating, already moving, and when they're hitting it up a smaller player (five eighth/hooker/fullback) should accompany on at least one shoulder increase their's a chance of a break from an offload.

IE, when we go wide, player's should look potentially like they should receive the ball, to create deception. Look at the Tigers moves, generally they're from deep, players are moving in all directions, there's confusion and hence holes made. There was a perfect opportunity last week when Webb took the ball at second receiver 40m out, floated left went past Toopi, who had held up the inside defence, if Manu Vatuvei had have read the play he could have been trailing on th inside, received the turned ball up the middle where there was a massive hole.

It certainly is a problem at the moment, no depth means no time to make moves, no getting to a defender at peak momentum, and a general shut down of moves. I think there's a distinct lack of backline structure, and confidence in the halves to make anything happen and this severely limits our line breaks per game, and obviously our points scored per game.
 

Kaiaua krusher_old

Guest
Good call Iafeta. I to am waiting patiently for a grunter to bust the line and offload to our quickies in the halves and hooking roles. Like you I tend to look at the big picture and not dwell on personalities. Ivan has a job to do, has made a call and for the Clubs sake I hope it works. Lowie has plenty to say in todays herald. I reckon it will take 2-3 years to get the Clubs performance consistency up and chopping and changin Coaches aint gonna help-provided the plan is seen to be working! By all accounts the young guys have talent to burn.
 

Skinner_old

Guest
Never been a fan of a flat attack - you have no room to move.

Besides everything else you tend throw a lot more forward passes.

Cheers
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
Mosh said:
btw Iafeta, what do you think of Hohaia's dropping, and Ivan as a coach thus far?

Hohaia's dropping: Surprising. Certainly the coach has to reward and punish good form and bad form respectively, to try and set a benchmark for what is expected. The problem is, I didn't think Lance's form was that. He was getting out of dummy half, and providing reasonable ball for the halves to work with. Bewildering giving Fien retained his spot after a complete and utter Barry Crocker, and Ropati stays at five eighth after a game similar to what he produces at centre - hit it up, step, hit someone's shoulder.

Ivan: Hard to judge. I've got faith in the man though. He was like Kevin Campion, did the hard yards and earnt respect for it. Not the prettiest of players, but damn effective and safe. He would have earnt a lot of mana during his time as a player at the Warriors. Obviously he has a lot of pedigree with his premier league success, much like Daniel Anderson, I think we need to give Ivan time, more than this season. This season will be hard for any coach, due to the salary cap pressures and what that will do to the player's attitudes - its human nature to get some sort of resistance, 'why bother, we're doomed', its human psychology really.

What he should be judged on, in my opinion is finding set increases in the game of the Warriors, not the final result. My thinking is its a bit difficult to make a judgement on the NRL ladder positioning because no one can be certain what impact the salary cap scandal has had on the club - the only previous experience is with Canterbury, who proceeded to lose their remaining three games and then bounce back hard the next year.

Hence, the types of things I think he should be appraised on are;

1. Increasing line breaks per game gained by 1 per game in comparison to 2005
2. Decrease line breaks conceeded per game by 1 per game in comparison to 2005
3. 60% of general field (not attacking) kicks to find grass and have a net gain of at least XX (probably 30-40m) from the position of the kick and the position the returning player is tackled at.
4. 50% of kicks within the attacking 30 to yield a positive result - either a turnover, a goal line drop out, a try.
5. Reduce errors by 3 errors per game in comparison to 2005.
6. Reduce missed tackles by 3 tackles per game in comparison to 2005
7. (This one is more in line with the thought we will lose players at the end of this year) - Blood 4 juniors with at least seven games in their first season, in 2006.

I think a lot of those goals are simple, attainable, yet challenging. Those goals will lend to a good end result as well. IE increasing line breaks/decreasing line breaks conceeded will improve for/against and ultimately wins/losses, a lot of those small factors will change 2-10 point losses into 2-10 point wins. It then comes down to the coaches technical skills to ascertain how to gain those goals - IE is the attacking structure right, is our defensive set up right, what do I need to work on mentally and technically with our general field kickers, do I need to make sure a secondary kicker is available at all times, how hard do I need to emphasise the basics of handling, good kick and chase etc...
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
Kaiaua krusher said:
Good call Iafeta. I to am waiting patiently for a grunter to bust the line and offload to our quickies in the halves and hooking roles. Like you I tend to look at the big picture and not dwell on personalities. Ivan has a job to do, has made a call and for the Clubs sake I hope it works. Lowie has plenty to say in todays herald. I reckon it will take 2-3 years to get the Clubs performance consistency up and chopping and changin Coaches aint gonna help-provided the plan is seen to be working! By all accounts the young guys have talent to burn.

I agree with you.

We need to put faith in Ivan Cleary, unless it becomes painfully obvious he's not the man for the job. And it isn't necessarily going to be apparent this year on our position on the NRL ladder - fact of the matter is, psychologically some of the players will be shot to hell and back with the mental fall out of the salary cap scandal. Not to mention the physical -4 points loss. Its a difficult task, there is no coaching manual that tells you how to cope with this situation, what resources you need, what characteristics to look out for to know who's turned on, who's not. This is a first time incident at the start of a season. Its hard to make a judgement on that. If we started at zero, his ability to get the players to focus may be entirely different.

He should be set basic goals in improving the statistics the club produces week in, week out, as per above. And if he starts to show signs of improvement there, then the long road to rising from the ashes starts.

Definitely, improving line breaks I think would come from more depth in attack, and more back up up the guts.

The other thing we need to instigate is, a premier league side. You are right to say we have a lot of junior talent - I haven't seen a lot of it but the crushing they gave the Australian schoolboys last year was phenomonal at JK level - a lot of the top players from that side are coming through our Elite Development Squad. We need to ensure we retain the cream of the crop on Premier League contracts (not scholarship deals which are basically like a verbal agreement, players need security more often than not they'll take written deals elsewhere), it will also help mature players along more. It is only in these first two games of the season for instance we are starting to see Evarn Tuimavave's real abilities, it is obvious Grant Rovelli has played an exceptionally high class of development football week in week out before making his first grade debut, and its somewhat painfully obvious sometimes raw talented players when they hit first grade with the Warriors don't know how to get through a first grade game. We need to sharpen the step up, create more competition, and I feel success will start to shape itself off this.