Post Match [Round 19, 2022] - Raiders vs Warriors Post Match Discussion

Game Information

Raiders
Vs
Warriors
26 GIO Stadium
23 Jul 2022 17:00
80th minute
14

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  • Total voters
    59

Akkerz

Contributor
This game was first half - here is what we can do
Second half - but this is what we prefer to do., staring with Shaun Johnson 's kick out on the full
Seen it all before
History repaeting
 
He plays on the wing.

It’s that simple.

Or the bench.
Yeah I tend to agree, I just dont want to lower our existing wingers self belief, I guess its about how you manage it, if they know it is just experimentation then all sweet. But then they maybe questioning why are trialling that when hes not here next year. Which actually might be a good thing because competition for spots is what next years roster is largely about.

But when was the last time we had a traditional winger with the pace of Walsh or Metcalf?
 
What were the back's metres? We seemed to be marching up the field ok (in the first half)
Screen Shot 2022-07-24 at 4.09.44 PM.png
 
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Yep.

Given we are going to have a 4 halves (not counting Egan who is a real 9 now), fighting for 2 spots, and Metcalf scores some insane tries from long range with pace that doesnt stop over 100m, whether at half or FB, I think its worth a game of putting Walsh on our wing, just to simulate what the cut out pass/overlap to insane pace looks like with Metcalf.

A bit like SoO, sometimes you have to find a spot for your best players. Just not sure which one I'd give a rest, Montoya or D WZ. Probably Dalin, given Montoya is making a lot of hit ups and is also doing a good job defusing kicks.

Im looking at next years team and thinking, if we cannot make the 4 with this team we never will.

You got 3 full backs and all 3 are players I want in the team. For me, Id play Martin at FB and CNK at centre as hes a bit more sizeable. But then there is the extreme pace of Metcalf, you have Shaun Johnson at 7, you have to play Metcalf at 6 given we need X factor and pace, so I presume Volkman slowly fills in for 6 or 7 (even though hes more like Stacey than Shaun Johnson) and Shaun Johnson slowly helps him prepare for the 7 role.....

Walker plays 14, Niukore I presume plays back rower, which for me means we still have a centre spot and IMO it would be silly not to offer Arthars a contract given how consistently good he has been for the Warriors and wants to play for the Warriors and wont get a show in at the Broncs now that they are flying. Which would push Pompey back to our reserve centre, which would be a great option to have, with hopefully Vailea getting some quality defensive coaching and applying it when NRL Reserve Grade starts again next year in earnest.

What Im seeing is a lot of our current rocks or diamonds players, are going to have to fight to retain their spot under healthy competition, which can only help drive motivation.

On paper, its hard to see us doing rubbish again next year. But then I thought that this year on paper. But, there is a lot more experienced first graders next year.
This year I always thought we'd struggle. Some of the POS have been questionable.
 
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Ah ok cool understood, relative to Warriors standard of play. So if I was thinking about it from an overall NRL competition perspective then I should switch your use of the word ‘excel’ to ‘mediocre’ or, to split it into two words, ‘below average’. Makes much more sense.
He outplayed Xavier Savage and some of the posters were gaga over TMM and I don't see much difference in what Chanel Harris-Tavita has contributed recently at fullback and what TMM has done.
Mediocre by NRL standards but I disagree with below average.
He looked like he could do a job for a number of NRL teams based on his performance.
I take the phrase medioicre by NRL standards to be a huge compliment for a 2022 Warriors player. How many of our other dudes were NRL standard? Egan probably? Maybe only 5-6 other men in the side.
I know you want us to be good right now. But that ain't happening. Let's step up to finishing 10th next year and then maybe better talent will come here as we get more consistent.
We need years to turn this ship around and right now in the 2022 and 2023 horizons being a mediocre NRL player is something we should aspire to right now. If we can get 1 through 17 all being NRL mediocre that would be a big move from the current 5 to 6 who currently are.
 
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Yep.

Given we are going to have a 4 halves (not counting Egan who is a real 9 now), fighting for 2 spots, and Metcalf scores some insane tries from long range with pace that doesnt stop over 100m, whether at half or FB, I think its worth a game of putting Walsh on our wing, just to simulate what the cut out pass/overlap to insane pace looks like with Metcalf.

A bit like SoO, sometimes you have to find a spot for your best players. Just not sure which one I'd give a rest, Montoya or D WZ. Probably Dalin, given Montoya is making a lot of hit ups and is also doing a good job defusing kicks.

Im looking at next years team and thinking, if we cannot make the 4 with this team we never will.

You got 3 full backs and all 3 are players I want in the team. For me, Id play Martin at FB and CNK at centre as hes a bit more sizeable. But then there is the extreme pace of Metcalf, you have Shaun Johnson at 7, you have to play Metcalf at 6 given we need X factor and pace, so I presume Volkman slowly fills in for 6 or 7 (even though hes more like Stacey than Shaun Johnson) and Shaun Johnson slowly helps him prepare for the 7 role.....

Walker plays 14, Niukore I presume plays back rower, which for me means we still have a centre spot and IMO it would be silly not to offer Arthars a contract given how consistently good he has been for the Warriors and wants to play for the Warriors and wont get a show in at the Broncs now that they are flying. Which would push Pompey back to our reserve centre, which would be a great option to have, with hopefully Vailea getting some quality defensive coaching and applying it when NRL Reserve Grade starts again next year in earnest.

What Im seeing is a lot of our current rocks or diamonds players, are going to have to fight to retain their spot under healthy competition, which can only help drive motivation.

On paper, its hard to see us doing rubbish again next year. But then I thought that this year on paper. But, there is a lot more experienced first graders next year.
Thats just IT in one sentence. You say sign Arthars because he is good. Then say he wouldnt get a spot at the Broncos. Thats it we are a step below the other teams.
 
Thats just IT in one sentence. You say sign Arthars because he is good. Then say he wouldnt get a spot at the Broncos. Thats it we are a step below the other teams.
No, I think its more the Broncs are simply not going to mess with what "seems" to be working. But the reality is, Staggs is one of the best at the moment and their other centre is "ok". It has nothing to do with how good Arthars is or isnt..

Arthars was a Melb u20 where he scored a try every 2nd game on Avg which is really good for a centre, not to mention his a goal kcking. He debuted with the Tits, which is where the Broncs made a play for him from for this season, but loaned him out to us.

What he offers is defense, really good defense in comparison to anybody else we have, 92% efficiency in 12 games this year, Pompey our 2nd best centre is at 81% efficiency. Given Centre is a position that is fairly high volume defense and mission critical defense, you want ones that are good at it. He also runs an excellent line inside the 20 and he knows when to shift the ball, he joins in the back line shape we have very well.

You cannot have Marquees players in every spot. Arthars is experienced and he is extremely solid. If CNK plays FB and Martin is not played, then you are left with Pompey and Vailea again, The Warriors with the worst right edge defense and Defense in general in the NRL this year.
 
He outplayed Xavier Savage and some of the posters were gaga over TMM and I don't see much difference in what Chanel Harris-Tavita has contributed recently at fullback and what TMM has done.
Mediocre by NRL standards but I disagree with below average.
He looked like he could do a job for a number of NRL teams based on his performance.
I take the phrase medioicre by NRL standards to be a huge compliment for a 2022 Warriors player. How many of our other dudes were NRL standard? Egan probably? Maybe only 5-6 other men in the side.
I know you want us to be good right now. But that ain't happening. Let's step up to finishing 10th next year and then maybe better talent will come here as we get more consistent.
We need years to turn this ship around and right now in the 2022 and 2023 horizons being a mediocre NRL player is something we should aspire to right now. If we can get 1 through 17 all being NRL mediocre that would be a big move from the current 5 to 6 who currently are.

Fullback is the easiest place to look good because you are essentially creating an overlap where ever you go because your opposite number is defending behind the line.

Chanel Harris-Tavita was busy and workman like and threw a nice pass leading in to the Murchie try. He’s never going to be able to create something out of nothing or run the length of the field.

That’s not a concern if you have strike power all over the park like the Panthers, but in a team that badly lacks a cutting edge you need a genuine threat with pace or a creative talent. Chanel Harris-Tavita doesn’t have either unfortunately.
 
Fullback is the easiest place to look good because you are essentially creating an overlap where ever you go because your opposite number is defending behind the line.

Chanel Harris-Tavita was busy and workman like and threw a nice pass leading in to the Murchie try. He’s never going to be able to create something out of nothing or run the length of the field.

That’s not a concern if you have strike power all over the park like the Panthers, but in a team that badly lacks a cutting edge you need a genuine threat with pace or a creative talent. Chanel Harris-Tavita doesn’t have either unfortunately.
I see Chanel Harris-Tavita four games into his fullback career as being a poor man's Clint Gutherson.
Gutho doesn't do a lot more than "look good because you are essentially creating an overlap where ever you go because your opposite number is defending behind the line."

If we have Shaun Johnson and the risky Metcalf at halves next year then we need a steady as she goes fullback. The other issue Dunedin Warrior (and thanks for your post by the way I thought it was well reasoned) is our points given away this year. We are second to last in defence if defence is judged by points given away. We have given away 489 second only to Knights on 498 your Panthers by comparison have given away only 202

I think Defence is the first thing we address and Chanel Harris-Tavita is helping their in spades.
 
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I see Chanel Harris-Tavita four games into his fullback career as being a poor man's Clint Gutherson.
Gutho doesn't do a lot more than "look good because you are essentially creating an overlap where ever you go because your opposite number is defending behind the line."

If we have Shaun Johnson and the risky Metcalf at halves next year then we need a steady as she goes fullback. The other issue Dunedin Warrior (and thanks for your post by the way I thought it was well reasoned) is our points given away this year. We are second to last in defence if defence is judged by points given away. We have given away 489 second only to Knights on 498 your Panthers by comparison have given away only 202

I think Defence is the first thing we address and Chanel Harris-Tavita is helping their in spades.

I think a poor man’s Gutho is a good example of where he lies Wrighty Wrighty I just think we should be aiming higher. CNK will be little better I fear his form has tailed off badly over the last couple of seasons.
 
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I think a poor man’s Gutho is a good example of where he lies Wrighty Wrighty I just think we should be aiming higher. CNK will be little better I fear his form has tailed off badly over the last couple of seasons.
When I watched CNK for reggies yesterday he looked skittish of contact and it led him at one point to panic pass instead of muscling it up himself and doing a settler.
Is coming back off an injury and needs time to find his confidence?
I would like to see CNK at centre next year as I agree he is not in form for fullback

Still Raiders have done us a huge solid by giving him reggie time so let's hope he can get some mistakes out of his system in ISP. It was my first time watching ISP for a while and it really is far far better for developing players to learn in because you get the pill far more often throughout the game and also the defence speed is much slower so you get more time to make up your mind as to what option you will take. All of the above perfect for learning.
 
The only comment I have to make cos most of you guys beat me to it is the way the team has degenerated to a 40 min team from an 80 this year is what disappoints me as a fan.I hope the 80 comes in nxt weeks Storm game otherwise we may as well have mad Monday tomorrow for them all.
 
That's not on cnk. 40/20s are sideline kicks, that's on the wingers. On defence they should be back, not up flat in the line, right back. As play evolves, if they can go up, well & good.
Also exactly how unco was Montoya trying to catch the first 40 20
A more skilled winger would have caught the ball after it bounced.

We will remember this match as being lost by the 40 20s
If they didn't make that first 40 20 we would have been in time sapping arm wrestle with them for at least ten minutes and you could see that was our game plan. Except Wighton new our game plan and had other ideas. Good on him for being proactive
The NRL has the best players in the world and he is one of the better halves on planet earth.
 
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my take on the game was.. great start... we tried things, we had a go, we kept pressure, solid defense.... second half I bet Jones said to close down shop and that was exactly what we did... we needed to introduce Walsh early but it was like we wanted to defend a lead.... at that point I knew we would lose... bringing on Walsh twenty minutes when we were behind was a desperate measure to try and play catchup .... i bet dumb ass Morgan had a say in that decision to try and defend a lead.... fucken useless cu**s.... why change a winning strategy
 
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. Good post. There is no one else online tonight Aus Warriors Fan. Fancy a go back and forth with me?
1) What did you make of Reece Walsh's ten minutes? A hiding to nothing and he had no chance or a mixed effort
2) Why did we allow Wightman a second 40 to 20?
3) Should we have kicked to go to 14 to zero?

I thought that the 2 points was an ok option. We went beyond two converted tries and we got the ball back to keep pressuring them. A try was a possibility not a certainty.
History shows that this was followed by mistakes on our part that played a part in us losing the game but that was always likely at some stage anyway
 
We will remember this match as being lost by the 40 20s
If they didn't make that first 40 20 we would have been in time sapping arm wrestle with them for at least ten minutes and you could see that was our game plan.
Yep, he attempted 3 and got 2, yet we didnt see them coming? Still do not understand with only 9 sets of possession why we didn't try for them ourselves with 3 guys who can punt 40/20s.

All those little moments in a game can really be soooo costly. We brought a lot of it on ourselves with silly play (feigning for a strip call then blowing the CC on it) and lack of strategy to get back into the possession game in the 2nd half..

Hopefully with so much competition for spots next year the new coach wont stand for silly play and will demand we think better once the tide turns on how to stop it and get back on top.