Game Information

Sharks
Vs
Warriors
20 Netstrata Jubilee Stadium
11 Jul 2021 18:05
80th minute
12

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Mr Frank White

Warriors 1st Grader
May 19, 2012
3,805
"The Walker Bros": If they were all that, wouldn't some NRL team have signed them by now?!
Lol. Thats the worst fallacy of all time. 56.25% of clubs have a losing record currently. More than half the league is failing at their one job.

And us at the Warriors, should we keep doing what we have always done? If we have a shot at a genuine top flight coach, then sure.

We dont have a lot of options, in order of likelihood;
1. Keep Browny
2. Replace him with a risky choice
And down in a distant 3rd, so far back it cant even see the other two;


3. Hire a top flight coach
 

PullinTeeth

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 11, 2017
1,371
Didnt mind the game yesterday, was expecting alot worse. The difference between the two teams was that 15 minutes before half time when we didnt have the ball.
Still cant believe there wasn't a send off for that spear tackle on Jazz, was the worst I've seen in a long time.
Kodi was horrible, and I wish Sean O'Sullivan had the ability to go with the effort he puts in.
Thought our defence was great, Lodge and Egan put in some great hits.
Cant see anyone taking Berrys spot for a long long time.
Our bench was garbage, really not sure what's up with Ben Murdoch-Masila, some of his handling lately has been atrocious.
Hate to say it but but next year is looking promising.
Also fuck Nathan Brown
 

Uster101

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 25, 2020
377
Was busy last night so just watched the game now, My main form of confusion is after the game when they interviewed Jazz they were asking him questions like 'Is not knowing where you will be playing next week due to Covid19 having an effect on the teams performance' etc etc. Why do these Commentators on SkyTV... Monty, Tony Iro, Richie Barnett not ask the questions we want to answers to. Why do they not ask the question :Why are the Warriors so useless?" etc etc We need answers to those sort of questions
 

Cces

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 12, 2013
265
Christchurch
"The Walker Bros": If they were all that, wouldn't some NRL team have signed them by now?!
Their success is heavily overstated. Keep in mind it was a 12 team comp until 2013, 13 in 2014 & 14 since then
Screenshot_20210703-210708_DuckDuckGo.jpg
 

Wrighty

1st Grade Fringe
May 26, 2021
318
Lol. Thats the worst fallacy of all time. 56.25% of clubs have a losing record currently. More than half the league is failing at their one job.

And us at the Warriors, should we keep doing what we have always done? If we have a shot at a genuine top flight coach, then sure.

We dont have a lot of options, in order of likelihood;
1. Keep Browny
2. Replace him with a risky choice
And down in a distant 3rd, so far back it cant even see the other two;


3. Hire a top flight coach
I would like to see all the posters all agree there is no point suggesting "Why can't we get Wayne Bennett or Superstar X coach" to come to the warriors.
Ever since I have been a member here someone suggests Bennett or Bellamy once a week here.
 

roadrunner

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 7, 2016
397
Tauranga
As the song goes Slip sliding away is how our season has gone.Bottom line we just aren't good enough in the head department. We can blame the ref,the coach , injuries hell even the tea lady if we are desperate.Fact is we are having another shit year.Yea on paper we have some good players and some standout duds but it's a team effort that wins those 1 pointers or close games.Half the time we play as a train wreck not a bullet train that we should be.Its that lump between the ears called a brain that some people need to use.
 

mrblonde

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 14, 2012
3,946
Auckland
I would like to see all the posters all agree there is no point suggesting "Why can't we get Wayne Bennett or Superstar X coach" to come to the warriors.
Ever since I have been a member here someone suggests Bennett or Bellamy once a week here.
I'd like the mods to ban people who make those posts for a week....

We really do go 'round and 'round in these "sack the coach" threads, don't we?

From "Sack The Effing Coach And Get A Bloody Good Coach" to "Sack The Coach And Promote One Of His Assistants" to eventually "May As Well Let The Coach See Out His Contract/Season" weary acceptance.
 

Wrighty

1st Grade Fringe
May 26, 2021
318
I'd like the mods to ban people who make those posts for a week....

We really do go 'round and 'round in these "sack the coach" threads, don't we?

From "Sack The Effing Coach And Get A Bloody Good Coach" to "Sack The Coach And Promote One Of His Assistants" to eventually "May As Well Let The Coach See Out His Contract/Season" weary acceptance.
Hard out,

Where I can empathise with the sack the coach du jour motif is that so much of the success does seem to come down to one kent and the decision making structure and organisational outcomes shouldn't be structured in such a one person fashion.
Would like to see a head of football who does all the recruiting and contract stuff
A selection committee of three kents who select the game day 17.
Cricket for example has a selection panel of 3 dudes of which the coach is but one kent

The fools game in business is to blame individuals. Organisations and businesses with long term success focus on decision making structures and process that are robust enough that they can be highly effective even if the dudes in the centre of them are only solid business people instead of being elite decision makers.

(Yes I have an MBA so can trout out such claptrap quite easily :) )
 
Last edited:

Burncity warrior

1st Grade Fringe
May 11, 2021
224
I'd like the mods to ban people who make those posts for a week....

We really do go 'round and 'round in these "sack the coach" threads, don't we?

From "Sack The Effing Coach And Get A Bloody Good Coach" to "Sack The Coach And Promote One Of His Assistants" to eventually "May As Well Let The Coach See Out His Contract/Season" weary acceptance.
What do you want us to post? How great we are going? How excited we are for next year? There's not a hell of alot to bloody write is there.

I'm not interested in gushing over how great our recruitment is or the so called "changes" until we start winning games.

In every organisation someone has to be the fall guy and in pro sports it's ALWAYS the coach, this is nothing new.

Now I'm not quite calling for Brownies head just yet but results need to start appearing before we stop moaning about him at least
 

Rick O'Shay

Warriors 1st Grader
May 1, 2013
4,300
New Plymouth
Was busy last night so just watched the game now, My main form of confusion is after the game when they interviewed Jazz they were asking him questions like 'Is not knowing where you will be playing next week due to Covid19 having an effect on the teams performance' etc etc. Why do these Commentators on SkyTV... Monty, Tony Iro, Richie Barnett not ask the questions we want to answers to. Why do they not ask the question :Why are the Warriors so useless?" etc etc We need answers to those sort of questions
Because media these days is all fluff and touchy feely shit. Watch the tv news and read any of the mainstream rags, same issue.

No such thing as an investigative reporter anymore nor making people accountable
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,600
Hard out,

Where I can empathise with the sack the coach du jour motif is that so much of the success does seem to come down to one kent and the decision making structure and organisational outcomes shouldn't be structured in such a one person fashion.
Would like to see a head of football who does all the recruiting and contract stuff
A selection committee of three kents who select the game day 17.
Cricket for example has a selection panel of 3 dudes of which the coach is but one kent

The fools game in business is to blame individuals. Organisations and businesses with long term success focus on decision making structures and process that are robust enough that they can be highly effective even if the dudes in the centre of them are only solid business people instead of being elite decision makers.

(Yes I have an MBA so can trout out such claptrap quite easily :) )
I dont have an MBA so please forgive me.

what is the role of the head coach in cricket? and rep level, not international is there always a 3 person panel or is it left to an individual to make the final call, would that person be the head coach? If not how does it work if a head coach is over ruled on who is playing, does that mean he is not the head coach? Who takes responsibility then?

I also nothing about cricket and normally avoid any talk about it, but you sir have intrigued me.

It is my assertion that the head coach has to be responsible as the leader of the off field and on field components of the team. Therefore losses and wins are both accrued to him.
 
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Lance155

1st Grade Fringe
Feb 24, 2013
1,129
Same issues ay, we can't or take too long to swing momentum. All sorts of different players making dumb errors at the absolute worst times.

I think now it is more just a confidence thing. Teams often find their way out of this by focusing on bringing the fun back. Would like to see this at least tried.
 

Juno

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 2, 2018
269
Didnt mind the game yesterday, was expecting alot worse. The difference between the two teams was that 15 minutes before half time when we didnt have the ball.
Still cant believe there wasn't a send off for that spear tackle on Jazz, was the worst I've seen in a long time.
Kodi was horrible, and I wish Sean O'Sullivan had the ability to go with the effort he puts in.
Thought our defence was great, Lodge and Egan put in some great hits.
Cant see anyone taking Berrys spot for a long long time.
Our bench was garbage, really not sure what's up with Ben Murdoch-Masila, some of his handling lately has been atrocious.
Hate to say it but but next year is looking promising.
Also fuck Nathan Brown
Word is he's trying to eat his way out of Covid....
Must be the dude thinks because he's staying at a resort he's meant to be living the resort life.
Not good enough at all if thats the case and needs someone to wire his jaw shut if he can't control that at this level
 

Wrighty

1st Grade Fringe
May 26, 2021
318
I dont have an MBA so please forgive me.

what is the role of the head coach in cricket? and rep level, not international is there always a 3 person panel or is it left to an individual to make the final call, would that person be the head coach? If not how does it work if a head coach is over ruled on who is playing, does that mean he is not the head coach? Who takes responsibility then?

I also nothing about cricket and normally avoid any talk about it, but you sir have intrigued me.

It is my assertion that the head coach has to be responsible as the leader of the off field and on field components of the team. Therefore losses and wins are both accrued to him.

Hi gREVUS :)

Good to hear from you.

For the blackcaps a three person selection committee has been used for the past ten to twenty years. At some points only two were effectively on it.

The coach is a member of the selection committee because, as you point out, his career rides on who is selected. He can be outvoted and or asked to compromise on the selection decisions. But given the small number of people on the committee usually he will have a great say and usually would imagine they would try to come up with decisions all three members are happy with after a discussion.

Usually a group is capable of better complex decisions than an individual can make is the theory. But the group has to gel and get along well and not be dysfunctional.

The committee also largely decides the role each player will have as well. IE who will open and what batting position the player is being selected for. So not just who plays.

On tours the committee is not there. So the game day XIs are chosen by the coach and the captain (Kane).

"It is my assertion that the head coach has to be responsible as the leader of the off field and on field components of the team. Therefore losses and wins are both accrued to him."

You could be right. I don't have any definite thoughts to counter that assertion. Other than making the head coach responsible appears to produce hit and miss results. When you have a Bellamy you are thrilled. When you have a Kearney you have to live with him for 2 or 3 years often before his results catch up with him. So perhaps there is a way that is less dependent on finding an all star coach of which is there is a very short supply.

The blackcaps just won the world test championship with their selection system and ranked number one in the world in tests. And made the last two ODI world cup finals. So their system is working better than the Warriors. However their is more complexity to it in that the blackcaps get all the best new zealand juniors as they don't opt to play for other teams. In fact the blackcaps from 1995 onwards revamped, apparently, their junior pathways program and the current blackcaps class were all produced by it: Kane, Ross, Tim, Trent, Latham, all childhood star players

You asked about rep level and not international level in cricket? At provincial first class level my understanding is that the coach picks the side by himself.

When I was a cricket club captain I picked the side with the aid of selection committee chairperson. His input usually rubber stamped my decisions except once:
We had 12 fit high quality players for saturday and I wanted to drop the guy who always showed up a late as an example to the team (he would show up ten minutes before game time after we had all warmed up). The chairperson insisted he play as he was a good bowler and said we would be light on bowling. The decision was unpopular but it led to that bowler getting into form and then winning us the big game game at the end of the year. So worked out for the best and proved to be a good decision that I would never have made myself.
 
Last edited:

someguy4321

Guest
The warriors should try to play like the Rabbits team - mainly in backline attack set-moves. The Rabbits have Cody Walker who is a great centre and he knows how to create a 2 on 1 overlap enabling Dane Gagai (and other wingers) to score in the corner. I don't think the warriors try to exploit this move often.
 

Wrighty

1st Grade Fringe
May 26, 2021
318
I just want to add a bit to my answer also based on management theory.

Want to pick up on your quote again:

"It is my assertion that the head coach has to be responsible as the leader of the off field and on field components of the team. Therefore losses and wins are both accrued to him."

The advantage of what you are proposing is accountability and speed of rectification. If a coach does a poor job and the team sucks then the team can rapidly head in the other direction by firing him or her and appointing a, hopefully, much better coach.

With a more complex layout and role specifications that I am advocating reversing and rectifying a sinking ship is more difficult. You would have to overhaul the decision process and job descriptions and division of tasks/responsibilities and processes the team uses to make decisions. That could take a year and require a real brain wave to think of a better system of doing it and getting everyone to agree and buy into that better system of doing it would be problematic. With two levels of buy in required, one to agree to implement a new system and secondly enough buy in to have faith and patience in it to give a decent chance.

Method A: One decision maker does have advantages.
Method B: Would require careful design and a culture shift to accept it. It would need to come from an owner with deep pockets, patience, a willingness to lose for a few seasons until they got it right, and a vision for what a good system looks like.
 
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gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,600
Hi gREVUS :)

Good to hear from you.

For the blackcaps a three person selection committee has been used for the past ten to twenty years. At some points only two were effectively on it.

The coach is a member of the selection committee because, as you point out, his career rides on who is selected. He can be outvoted and or asked to compromise on the selection decisions. But given the small number of people on the committee usually he will have a great say and usually would imagine they would try to come up with decisions all three members are happy with after a discussion.

Usually a group is capable of better complex decisions than an individual can make is the theory. But the group has to gel and get along well and not be dysfunctional.

The committee also largely decides the role each player will have as well. IE who will open and what batting position the player is being selected for. So not just who plays.

On tours the committee is not there. So the game day XIs are chosen by the coach and the captain (Kane).

"It is my assertion that the head coach has to be responsible as the leader of the off field and on field components of the team. Therefore losses and wins are both accrued to him."

You could be right. I don't have any definite thoughts to counter that assertion. Other than making the head coach responsible appears to produce hit and miss results. When you have a Bellamy you are thrilled. When you have a Kearney you have to live with him for 2 or 3 years often before his results catch up with him. So perhaps there is a way that is less dependent on finding an all star coach of which is there is a very short supply.

The blackcaps just won the world test championship with their selection system and ranked number one in the world in tests. And made the last two ODI world cup finals. So their system is working better than the Warriors. However their is more complexity to it in that the blackcaps get all the best new zealand juniors as they don't opt to play for other teams. In fact the blackcaps from 1995 onwards revamped, apparently, their junior pathways program and the current blackcaps class were all produced by it: Kane, Ross, Tim, Trent, Latham, all childhood star players

You asked about rep level and not international level in cricket? At provincial first class level my understanding is that the coach picks the side by himself.

When I was a cricket club captain I picked the side with the aid of selection committee chairperson. His input usually rubber stamped my decisions except once:
We had 12 fit high quality players for saturday and I wanted to drop the guy who always showed up a late as an example to the team (he would show up ten minutes before game time after we had all warmed up). The chairperson insisted he play as he was a good bowler and said we would be light on bowling. The decision was unpopular but it led to that bowler getting into form and then winning us the big game game at the end of the year. So worked out for the best and proved to be a good decision that I would never have made myself.
Thanks for the well thought out reply.

I always understood that the head coach would avail himself of the input of his assistants, the trainers and the medics when choosing a team for the day.

But given its not international - ala the black caps - I wondered on the use of a committee. Which the warriors may or may not have. However i would have to believe that the head coach has ultimate responsibility and therefor ultimate say in who plays and who doesnt.

We have certainly seen NB chose to let players go and recruit from outside, his involvement has been pretty obvious. But at the same time his results speak for themselves and are on trend with his stats inside the NRL historically.

Just for record, i was against his employment from day one and have been tracking him against the Dragons as two coaches in similar situations as to if i was right or wrong on employing him.
 
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Wrighty

1st Grade Fringe
May 26, 2021
318
Thanks for the well thought out reply.

I always understood that the head coach would avail himself of the input of his assistants, the trainers and the medics when choosing a team for the day.

But given its not international - ala the black caps - I wondered on the use of a committee. Which the warriors may or may not have. However i would have to believe that the head coach has ultimate responsibility and therefor ultimate say in who plays and who doesnt.

We have certainly seen NB chose to let players go and recruit from outside, his involvement has been pretty obvious. But at the same time his results speak for themselves and are on trend with his stats inside the NRL historically.

Just for record, i was against his employment from day one and have been tracking him against the Dragons as two coaches in similar situations as to if i was right or wrong on employing him.
Well the dragons May well make the eight but thanks to Pos and brown we have better players and a better ceiling

what is your view
Would you rather be a dragons or warriors fan right now putting aside loyalty?
 
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