General Pick Your Team Vs Roosters

[Hitman82]

Current Injured Players (expected return date) (last update 09-06-13)

Russell Packer - Prop - Sternum (Round 14/15)
Ben Henry - Second Row/Centre - Knee (Season)
Todd Lowrie - Loose Forward - Ribs (Round 14)
Steve Rapira - Prop/Second Row - Knee (out for season)
Sione Lousi - Prop/Second Row - Knee (out for season)
Sio Siua Taukeiaho - Utility - Leg (Round 14)


1 Locke
2 Fish
3 Hurrell
4 Nielsen
5 Vatuvei
6 Leuluai
7 Johnson
8 Rapira
9 Friend
10 Packer (Matagi)
11 Mateo
12 Mannering
13 Taylor

14 Lillyman
15 Matulino
16 Ikahihifo
17 Peyroux

Same team except Locke back into the 1 jersey.

Fish returns to the wing and Laumape is unlucky to drop out after a typically solid performance.

Packer if available.

Matagi only played 13 minutes vs Manly, I believe he was pulled as Elliot tried to re-invigorate our pack as Manly threatened to stomp us down. He had two runs for 23m and made 5 tackles, missing none. I didn't take the subbing as a sign Elliot had no faith in him, more that we needed Matulino out there. Should be picked if Packer's not available.

Peyroux keeps his jersey after a great defensive display in the closing minutes of the game.

Taylor keeps his jersey after his best performance of the season to date.

Lowrie and Lousi on the radar to return if they play a couple of excellent NSW Cup games.

Strangely, the only player I wanted to bench after some poor play vs Manly was Mannering.

 

[Jay M]

Locke
Fish
Laumape
Nielsen
Manu
Leuluai
Johnson
Packer (if available) - otherwise start Mutts
Friend
Rapira
Mateo
Mannering
Taylor

Lillyman
Matulino if Packer plays, Gubb otherwise
Peyroux
Ikahihifo

As I just commented in the Warriors vs Sea Eagles thread - I think ME should go with a horses for courses approach this week, and not select Hurrell. As much as his defence is much improved, and his attack is greatly influential (especially on yesterday's results)... I'd be reluctant to play him against the Roosters. The Roosters left hand side comprises Maloney, SBW, Jenning and Tupou (I think - if not, it's Roger Tuivasa-Sheck which is arguably worse), and with the warriors persisting in defending with Shaun Johnson at right centre and the centre defending one spot infield - I think the prudent option this week would be to play Laumape at right centre with Fish on the wing to somewhat compensate for the attack that the roosters will put down that channel... Peyroux retains his spot on the bench for the same reason, in case we need to make changes...

I'd target the roosters right edge defense, where SKD hasn't been in great defensive form, and TL, Mateo, Nielsen and Manu have been lately... Aim to contain the roosters left hand attack... Oh, and send a lot of runners at Maloney to punish him for all those missed tackles he made when he played here

Just to confirm I'm not hating on Hurrell, I like what he offers us, but against the Roosters when we want a win to take us into the bye - I think we should take the conservative approach and bring Hurrell back in against a left hand edge that isn't as scary as the roosters one (e.g. the broncos post origin 2 at Mt Smart)...

 

[Apus]

For all the shit Marquee gets, he was awesome vs Manly. Definitely deserves to be our #1 lock ahead of Lowrie. Everything he offers is above that of Lowrie.

Stability is all we need now - and for Mannering to learn how to pass.

 

[eX | Machina]

Don't know why Matulino isn't starting?! Lowrie to the bench if he's fit for either Ikahihifo or Peyroux.

1 Locke
2 Fish
3 Hurrell
4 Nielsen
5 Vatuvei
6 Leuluai
7 Johnson
8 Rapira
9 Friend
10 Matulino
11 Mateo
12 Mannering
13 Taylor

14 Lillyman
15 Matagi
16 Ikahihifo / Lowrie if fit
17 Peyroux / Lowrie if fit

 

[Hitman82]

Just out of interest, I did a quick check of our defensive stats versus Manly and saw the following:

Laumape
Tackles-6
Missed+Ineffective-6

Hurrell
Tackles-15
Missed+Ineffective-6

Johnson
Tackles-15 (4 one-on-one!!)
Missed+Ineffective-6

Mannering (4 one-on-one)
Tackles-34
Missed+Ineffective-4

Taylor
Tackles-35
Missed+Ineffective-7

Friend
Tackles-47
Missed+Ineffective-6

Mateo
Tackles-24
Missed+Ineffective-3

Leuluai (4 one-on-one)
Tackles-20
Missed+Ineffective-1

Nielsen
Tackles-11 (3 one-on-one)
Missed+Ineffective-1

Manu
Tackles-4
Missed+Ineffective-4

Fish
Tackles-6
Missed+Ineffective-1

Peyroux
Tackles-6
Missed+Ineffective-2

Ikahihifo
Tackles-8
Missed+Ineffective-1

Our props were solid defensively; making 67 combined tackles and missing 8.

Thoughts:
-Hurrell and Johnson were fairly poor, but Laumape was worse from his smaller statistiical pool.

-Mannering worked hard to cover up these 3, but was probably fighting an impossible battle... may have contributed to what I perceived as poor discipline and decision making.

-Aside from Manu, that side of the field is a defensive cock block.

-Friend is a beast, Taylor did fairly well but missed more than I expected; worse than Lowrie defensively.

 

[Lord Gnome of Howick MBE]

I would bring Lowery and maybe Lousi into the team for Peyroux and Ikahihifo (although ME may keep Peyroux on the bench in case he needs to hook Hurrell for defensive reasons again.)

 

[Hadyn]

I would bring Lowery and maybe Lousi into the team for Peyroux and Ikahihifo (although ME may keep Peyroux on the bench in case he needs to hook Hurrell for defensive reasons again.)

Definitely Lowrie for Ikahihifo for me but Peyroux stays until Lousi is totally match fit and hardened.I like the defensive grit Peyroux is adding at the moment...he also covers quite a few positions therefore good utility value for mine.

 

[rugged]

Pretty impressed with Peyroux, he looking good, how fast is he? All of a sudden we seem to have a lot of centre depth with Laumape, Peyroux and Carlos.

 

[OMG]

It doesn't matter who has played right centre the same thing happens, we were absolute rubbish without Kon there, Henry had the same thing happening to him out there and he is good defensively and was making plenty of tackles..The problem doesn't lie in the centre.

 

[Jay M]

It doesn't matter who has played right centre the same thing happens, we were absolute rubbish without Kon there, Henry had the same thing happening to him out there and he is good defensively and was making plenty of tackles..The problem doesn't lie in the centre.

Maybe yes, maybe no... But when you have our four right edge defenders (Mannering, Hurrell, Johnson, Laumape) racking up 22 missed/ineffective tackles between them - you need to do something - especially coming up next week against one of the best offensive left edges in the competition... And when I say we need to do something - well I doubt they'll drop Mannering, I haven't seen anything from ME to suggest he'd consider dropping Johnson... One potentially good idea might be to switch Nielsen to the right, but then that might expose Manu again...

 

[OMG]

Maybe yes, maybe no... But when you have our four right edge defenders (Mannering, Hurrell, Johnson, Laumape) racking up 22 missed/ineffective tackles between them - you need to do something - especially coming up next week against one of the best offensive left edges in the competition... And when I say we need to do something - well I doubt they'll drop Mannering, I haven't seen anything from ME to suggest he'd consider dropping Johnson... One potentially good idea might be to switch Nielsen to the right, but then that might expose Manu again...

I agree 100%, but I also think we lose that game without Hurrell and he didn't get any where near enough ball, people keep blaming Hurrell for his reads, but it isn't quite as simple as that, a defensive line isn't about one player and the defensive lines tempo is not set by the centre. Take a look at what was happening to Benry out there against the dogs, same thing
Kons read on the 2nd try was not a bad read by him, if his inside men had done their job properly he would have been wider.
This defensive problem on the right has been around since Ivan's days and the constant is Simon, but everyone likes to blame the winger and centre, they are just part of the defensive line, Laumape's figures are very similar to Kons, but Kon made twice as many tackles, the problem isn't these 2, it comes from the inside of them

 

[Jay M]

I agree 100%, but I also think we lose that game without Hurrell and he didn't get any where near enough ball, people keep blaming Hurrell for his reads, but it isn't quite as simple as that, a defensive line isn't about one player and the defensive lines tempo is not set by the centre. Take a look at what was happening to Benry out there against the dogs, same thing
Kons read on the 2nd try was not a bad read by him, if his inside men had done their job properly he would have been wider.
This defensive problem on the right has been around since Ivan's days and the constant is Simon, but everyone likes to blame the winger and centre, they are just part of the defensive line, Laumape's figures are very similar to Kons, but Kon made twice as many tackles, the problem isn't these 2, it comes from the inside of them

I'm totally with you on him not getting enough ball... Kon and Laumape are both tackle busting machines - but how many times did they get early ball in the Manly half vs how many times did Mannering tuck the ball under his arm and go into contact...

Do we think the right hand side would be better if we switched Leuluai and Johnson? a right hand side of Mannering, Leuluai, Hurrell, Laumape/Fish fills me with a lot more confidence. However, then we get Johnson, Mateo and Manu on the left (granted they have Nielsen as well)... Or alternately, stop Johnson defending at centre... If Johnson is left in a 1 on 1 situation vs Jennings this coming weekend, I think I might close my eyes...

I don't know what the answer is, and I'm not blaming Hurrell. I'd just love to see us win four in a row and a fragile right edge against the roosters won't help us... Hurrell's upside is he can score tries no-one can, and beat players easily... Against the Roosters - I'm not sure we'll see him carve up that edge as that edge of the Roosters is pretty sharp defensively (I would love to see him prove me wrong), and if he's not going to carve up that edge, I'd go with a more defensive option on that side...

 

[WellingtonOrca]

Keep the same team, but move Mannering to the middle and Taylor to the edge, so we can have our marquee on marquee match up, assuming SBW doesn't get suspended.

 

[OMG]

I'm totally with you on him not getting enough ball... Kon and Laumape are both tackle busting machines - but how many times did they get early ball in the Manly half vs how many times did Mannering tuck the ball under his arm and go into contact...

Do we think the right hand side would be better if we switched Leuluai and Johnson? a right hand side of Mannering, Leuluai, Hurrell, Laumape/Fish fills me with a lot more confidence. However, then we get Johnson, Mateo and Manu on the left (granted they have Nielsen as well)... Or alternately, stop Johnson defending at centre... If Johnson is left in a 1 on 1 situation vs Jennings this coming weekend, I think I might close my eyes...

I don't know what the answer is, and I'm not blaming Hurrell. I'd just love to see us win four in a row and a fragile right edge against the roosters won't help us... Hurrell's upside is he can score tries no-one can, and beat players easily... Against the Roosters - I'm not sure we'll see him carve up that edge as that edge of the Roosters is pretty sharp defensively (I would love to see him prove me wrong), and if he's not going to carve up that edge, I'd go with a more defensive option on that side...

Credit has to be given to one of the games best half-centre combinations as well, Foran and Matai do that to strong right hand defences against every team.
Mannering is the problem IMO, swap him with Gaylor( a good talker) and I believe 2 problems will be solved, Manners plays the 13 very very well and his body shape has taken control now, all the passing drilling in the world isn't going to help his pass on his un-natural side, but being able to go anywhere on the field and tackle his arse off will take a heap of pressure off him.

 

[Warriors95]

1. Locke
2. Fish
3. Nielsen
4. Laumape
5. Vatuvei
6. Leuluai
7. Johnson
8. Packer
9. Friend
10. Matulino
11. Mateo
12. Mannering
13. Taylor

14. Rapira
15. Lillyman
16. Matagi
17. Peyroux

 

[Paleaaesina2the20]

Mannering gets caught ball watching on defence quite often, it makes it really hard to defend outside him. He is an excellent tackler, but if anyone recorded the game go back and look at the Horo try. He gets caught looking inside at the ball then by the time Foran gets it, he is on the outside of Mannering who has to let him run too far which sucks Hurrell back inside who had no chance.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that tackling ability for outside backs is not the only factor in missed tackles/ ineffective tackles. A lot of the time players get left on an island out numbered or having to turn back inside to tackle a guy that's already half through a hole and has his arm free.

 

[ToiletDuck]

Yeah I'm not sure there's an easy answer for this match. Whoever plays at right centre will be up against Jennings. Konrad doesn't fill me with a great amount of confidence, but he can't just be dropped every time we're playing a side with a decent left edge. Anyway, we'll see what happens. I can't see ME making too many changes other than Locke to FB, Fish to wing. If/when Konrad sucks he can always be benched for Peyroux I guess.

 

[OMG]

Mannering gets caught ball watching on defence quite often, it makes it really hard to defend outside him. He is an excellent tackler, but if anyone recorded the game go back and look at the Horo try. He gets caught looking inside at the ball then by the time Foran gets it, he is on the outside of Mannering who has to let him run too far which sucks Hurrell back inside who had no chance.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that tackling ability for outside backs is not the only factor in missed tackles/ ineffective tackles. A lot of the time players get left on an island out numbered or having to turn back inside to tackle a guy that's already half through a hole and has his arm free.

An island lol, It's more a little bit of coral poking up through the sea, and your in bare feet standing on one foot trying to keep your balance.

 

[Sir Bluey]

Don't know why Matulino isn't starting?! Lowrie to the bench if he's fit for either Ikahihifo or Peyroux.

1 Locke
2 Fish
3 Hurrell
4 Nielsen
5 Vatuvei
6 Leuluai
7 Johnson
8 Rapira
9 Friend
10 Matulino
11 Mateo
12 Mannering
13 Taylor

14 Lillyman
15 Matagi
16 Ikahihifo / Lowrie if fit
17 Peyroux / Lowrie if fit

Peyroux offers more then Lowrie

 

[eX | Machina]

Peyroux offers more then Lowrie

I haven't seen enough of DP in first grade to comment. Defensively Lowrie is sound.