Pick Your Team Pick Your Team 2017 Rnd 3 - Warriors vs Bulldogs

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eudebrito

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If only the team could achieve a similar pattern....throw in an alternate good season.

Kearney needs time to build systems in our feeder sides.....he needs time to bring the right blokes into the top side.
That will take years.

Every time we start with a new coach people want instant change, instant results. Reality is that every time we change coach it delays that 3-5 year building period required to make real change and drive real results. Effectively, we are in year 1 of the Kearney Era. If the club is genuine in its desire to be a regular top performing club then it must be accepted that there is a very real chance of more seasons of poor results on the field.

Well, that’s just all a bit too realistic and depressing.

You can finish bloody 7-8, and still make your gradual culture/rosters changes at the same time.

There aren’t 8 other teams far and away better than the warriors. Even with our flawed playing stock.

If they just make it that far, win over half your games, then that'll at least point in the right direction.

Bit sad all thoughts of top 4, even top 6 are out the window after 2 weeks.
 
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Inruin

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Well, that’s just all a bit too realistic and depressing.

You can finish bloody 7-8, and still make your gradual culture/rosters changes at the same time.

There aren’t 8 other teams far and away better than the warriors. Even with our flawed playing stock.

If they just make it that far, win over half your games, then that'll at least point in the right direction.

Bit sad all thoughts of top 4, even top 6 are out the window after 2 weeks.
There aren't 8 other teams far and away worse than the Warriors either IMO.

Any finishing position is still possible after only two weeks. But, if all anyone is after is a result this year then we will continue in the cycle of the past 5-6 years.

Gradual change may not be needed. Napalming the current roster might be the answer....


here is a question for you and others...

Would you be happy to carry on the way we are/have been and potentially get the same results ie: so much hope each season only to find we are battling for that 8th spot and usually failing, but hoping that one day we will get the right mix of coach/players/results......

or.....

take the axe to the current playing roster, put your faith in Kearney being the right man for the job and take 2 or 3 seasons of bad results on the field, potentially 3 seasons of wooden spoons with the aim of rebuilding a fundamentally flawed club - potentially leading to a more sustainable, high performance future but also potentially leaving us in the same spot , fighting for the last place in the 8 each year.....
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
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This is what I have been saying for a few years now. Whether we have hired the right coaches or not in the past 5-6 seasons. None have really been allowed to implement real change. Elliot was the closest with his philosophy of getting all grades to play similar structures, pushing u20's up in to NSW cup earlier, etc

Every time we start with a new coach people want instant change, instant results. Reality is that every time we change coach it delays that 3-5 year building period required to make real change and drive real results. Effectively, we are in year 1 of the Kearney Era. If the club is genuine in its desire to be a regular top performing club then it must be accepted that there is a very real chance of more seasons of poor results on the field. I know that is hard to accept as a Warriors fan but it is what it is. Imagine being a knights fan. Imagine if that was happening here at the Warriors. There would be so much back lash from fans, media etc that the coach would be gone after round 6. But Nathan Brown is still there and he has put the proverbial broom through the place, dropping players, getting rid of their Manu equivalent, blooding a whole lot of juniors etc. If we started doing what the Knights have done at the same time we would have changed coach already, probably twice. And in a few years time we will be sitting here wondering how we can be as good as the Knights, because whether you believe it or not now, in a few years that team will be up there competing for the title.

The good news is that in spite of the coaching changes a few things have been implemented that will help us. All grades playing a similar structure, our juniors coming through, NSW cup being used better, we have a top class CEO, we have attracted some high caliber players in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Luke, Foran, Tohu Harris (regardless of what some may think of these players or how they have played since coming here), secured Mt smart for the immediate future, the upcoming introduction of Warriors SG ball and Harold Matthews teams ........

I think a top 8 finish is realistically achievable this season but it wouldn't surprise me to see us finish in the 9 - 12 range either. Many will see this as a failure, and I can see their rational for that. But if we want to be serious about a long term, sustainable, high performance future for the club then you also have to accept that a season or two of making the changes necessary needs to happen - regardless of the results on the field.

I hope Doyle, EW and Kearney can hold off the fans and media long enough to make it happen.
The problem with this slow build philosophy is that while your maturing your players and making a change, those good players that mature faster than others are fielding offers to go play with better teams. And some are taking them.

So what do you do? Stop training them until they are all at an even level and accept last place? Or accept that you'll lose the best of them and then have to buy top players? In which case why wait, start buying in now, solve the dilemma.

Building a culture is one thing, but building a winning club is another. Look at the Storm, no culture to talk off, all their feeders come from out of state. I think there is one local kid playing in the storm. They have built a winning club on Buying good players. They are in exactly the same position as the Warriors and Newcastle. Look at the Cowboys, the same again. Even the titans have won a GF, and they had zero locals, when they did it.

Aim too far into the future and the only guarantee is that anything that could happen probably will.
 
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gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
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When they were unknown, and going cheap. That takes smarts and good on them. Even if one of them is that bloody cheating hooker, who other clubs didn't want because he was too small.;)
a bit like when the warriors bought James Maloney and LeChad? But then kept Shaun Johnson and let them go.... i know, i know LeChad was a bit of a different story given family history, but...
 

ToiletDuck

Administrator
I don't think there'll be too much shuffling this week. Maumalo was the one everyone wanted gone after round 1, Tui in round 2. The coaching staff are gonna give it a few more weeks before making any drastic changes. And to do so now would really be waving the white flag. Personally I don't think any of our ISP players are going to change much. Forwards can't dominate the opposition on attack or defence. Marquee half is a good player but not a great player. Hooker is now well and truly in the bottom half of hookers in the comp and appears to be on a slippery slope all the way to the ESL to complete his retirement package.

Anyway they're not issues that are unique to us. We're simply an average/below average team. I would at least give them a few rounds together to see whether they have any improvement in them, then start tinkering. If Foran is fit then surely he plays off the bench after his lay-off. Contact training then 80 mins of football after a year off would seem like quite the leap.
 
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Inruin

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The problem with this slow build philosophy is that while your maturing your players and making a change, those good players that mature faster than others are fielding offers to go play with better teams. And some are taking them.

So what do you do? Stop training them until they are all at an even level and accept last place? Or accept that you'll lose the best of them and then have to buy top players? In which case why wait, start buying in now, solve the dilemma.

Building a culture is one thing, but building a winning club is another. Look at the Storm, no culture to talk off, all their feeders come from out of state. I think there is one local kid playing in the storm. They have built a winning club on Buying good players. They are in exactly the same position as the Warriors and Newcastle. Look at the Cowboys, the same again. Even the titans have won a GF, and they had zero locals, when they did it.

Aim too far into the future and the only guarantee is that anything that could happen probably will.
It's a tough one. Trying to balance fans, the media and sponsors desire and expectations for on field results with changing and rebuilding a teams culture geared towards high performance - particularly when changes that are needed may result in poor on field results initially.

I would also argue that the Storm have a very strong high performance culture at present. What that would look like once Smith, Cronk, Slater and Bellamy go will be interesting.

I really don't care whether it takes buying players or developing your own or a mix of both.
 
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After last night, how could Tui be selected? He was hopeless. No confidence or reading of the game. Defense, well, what defense?


After being groomed as Lance Hohaia 2.0 Tui is down on confidence.

He has great talent and skills and I'd say resilience as well after being given 2 games this season to prove himself as a winger and one of those games he played fullback.

Manu was given time to prove his strengths were worth investing in and though he's on the decline he has scored a heap of tries.

All I'm getting at is that Imo Tui needs to be left to develop into a winger. Leave him there all season. He'll come right.
 
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gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
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After being groomed as Lance Hohaia 2.0 Tui is down on confidence.

He has great talent and skills and I'd say resilience as well after being given 2 games this season to prove himself as a winger and one of those games he played fullback.

Manu was given time to prove his strengths were worth investing in and though he's on the decline he has scored a heap of tries.

All I'm getting at is that Imo Tui needs to be left to develop into a winger. Leave him there all season. He'll come right.
shouldnt this be applied to Maumalo as well?
 

eudebrito

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So do they name Foran in the 21 for a few weeks just for funsies, or wait until he’s actually ready before naming him at 6?
 
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The thing with lolohea is that he's been shuffled between positions but he's also had 50 first grade games and other than a promising start had never looked that good in any of them. Not many players are still in first grade after 50 games where their best attribute has largly been potential.
 
For so long the
So do they name Foran in the 21 for a few weeks just for funsies, or wait until he’s actually ready before naming him at 6?

Put him in all day every day. Gone are the Elliottnesses' should we? shouldn't we? he may have had some issues off field - who doesn't - but I can't see anyone who doesn't respect what that guy can do on the field. Fuck the cotton wool, put him in.
 

1995Warriorsfan

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As expected.

Kieran Foran won't play for the Warriors against Bulldogs in Dunedin on Friday

The wait to see Kieran Foran in a Warriors jersey continues after the club's star signing was ruled out of Friday's clash against the Bulldogs in Dunedin.

The Kiwis playmaker was given the final clearance by the NRL on Saturday to resume his playing career after proving that he has sufficiently dealt with his off-field problems.

However, concerns over a long-standing shoulder problem has seen coach Stephen Kearney keep him on ice for at least another week.

Kearney said on Tuesday Foran's situation would be reassessed next week

Manu Vatuvei could return to the Warriors side for the Bulldogs clash after training in place of Tuimoala Lolohea on Tuesday.

Foran's absence was widely expected after it emerged last week that his recovery was taking longer than expected.

The 26-year-old suffered the season-ending injury while playing for Parramatta last May, before he was a granted a release by the Sydney club to deal with personal issues.

Some reports suggested that he could be sidelined until round eight, which was denied by Warriors managing director Jim Doyle and Foran said on Saturday that he was hopeful of returning by round five.

"The shoulder's been coming along okay, we're making ground each week," he said. "I'm going to start doing contact work and I'm hopeful of playing in the next couple of weeks. It probably won't be round three but if it is not round three it will be one of the weeks very soon after that."

Foran's setback means Ata Hingano will have another chance to prove himself in the halves alongside Shaun Johnson.

The 20-year-old five-eighth, who made his NRL debut at the end of last season, has enjoyed a solid start to the season as the Warriors won a close match against the Knights before losing 26-10 to the Storm last Friday.

Meanwhile, Kearney could also be without Roger Tuivasa-Scheck after the captain lasted just 27 minutes against Melbourne due to concussion.

The coach said Tuivasa-Sheck was in good shape after the game but would still need to pass the relevant protocols this week before he is cleared to play.
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As expected.

Kieran Foran won't play for the Warriors against Bulldogs in Dunedin on Friday

The wait to see Kieran Foran in a Warriors jersey continues after the club's star signing was ruled out of Friday's clash against the Bulldogs in Dunedin.

The Kiwis playmaker was given the final clearance by the NRL on Saturday to resume his playing career after proving that he has sufficiently dealt with his off-field problems.

However, concerns over a long-standing shoulder problem has seen coach Stephen Kearney keep him on ice for at least another week.

Kearney said on Tuesday Foran's situation would be reassessed next week

Manu Vatuvei could return to the Warriors side for the Bulldogs clash after training in place of Tuimoala Lolohea on Tuesday.

Foran's absence was widely expected after it emerged last week that his recovery was taking longer than expected.

The 26-year-old suffered the season-ending injury while playing for Parramatta last May, before he was a granted a release by the Sydney club to deal with personal issues.

Some reports suggested that he could be sidelined until round eight, which was denied by Warriors managing director Jim Doyle and Foran said on Saturday that he was hopeful of returning by round five.

"The shoulder's been coming along okay, we're making ground each week," he said. "I'm going to start doing contact work and I'm hopeful of playing in the next couple of weeks. It probably won't be round three but if it is not round three it will be one of the weeks very soon after that."

Foran's setback means Ata Hingano will have another chance to prove himself in the halves alongside Shaun Johnson.

The 20-year-old five-eighth, who made his NRL debut at the end of last season, has enjoyed a solid start to the season as the Warriors won a close match against the Knights before losing 26-10 to the Storm last Friday.

Meanwhile, Kearney could also be without Roger Tuivasa-Scheck after the captain lasted just 27 minutes against Melbourne due to concussion.

The coach said Tuivasa-Sheck was in good shape after the game but would still need to pass the relevant protocols this week before he is cleared to play.
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Bugger
 
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If Manu is back I would consider putting him at left wing and moving big Ken to right wing as Manu is a specialist left wing. However, the counter arguement is Ken has now gained some experience on the left wing with Kata and Manu as the more experienced footballer may be able to cover the switch to right wing better.

My team is
Roger Tuivasa-Sheck
Manu
Fusitua
Kata
Big Ken
Ata
Magic
Vete
Luke
Gubb
Afoa
Hoffman
Mannering
Thompson
Lillyman
Lisone
Clark/Lolohea

If Lolohea as utility is selected Ken or Manu to the middle once he is on the field. Only downside is Luke has to play 80 or Thompson is DH for a bit.
 
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