General NRL Expansion - The Orange Speaks!

LordGnome_old

Guest
by theorangenz
The NRL is talking expansion once again and that could spell good news for NZ league.
A little background is in order.
Following the ARL V SuperLeague war, rugby league was in crisis and the deal to get things back together saw a number of clubs culled, including some of the ARL expansion clubs - eg Perth - and some of the SL clubs like Adelaide.
Gold Coast was a victim of their own failings while the Bunnies were given the boot but made it back in via a court decision.
Wests & Tigers merged, as did Illawarra and St George.
The North Sydney Bears combined with Manly in the most bitter of marriages and it wasn’t a surprise when that fell over.
With the Bunnies getting back in, NRL went from 14 to 15 and the Gold Coast’s reintroduction brought the number up to 16.
This is where is gets interesting.
The Central Coast already have the fans and a stadium (Gosford) and the drums are beating for a return of the Bears.
At the same time, there’s always been interest from Wellington/South Island and Perth at the least.
Imagine the local derby matches between the Warriors (who may need to drop the NZ moniker) and a second NZ team. Which is exactly what could get NZ a second franchise.
On top of this, the NRL has already got $8 million on the table for any Sydney team that relocates. There’s two many of them and the changes to the pokie laws means what were cash cows are now struggling to stay afloat.
The Kiwis winning the World Cup comes at just the right time to show that a second NZ team isn’t a crazy idea.
The chickens are yet ready to hatch but you get a feeling KFC could be on the menu!
 

LordGnome_old

Guest
So does the Dom Post

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/2328401/Hopes-raised-for-NRL-inclusion

Hopes raised for NRL inclusion


Wellington is once again positioning itself to be home to a professional rugby league team and bid head Jason Hemson is adamant the city has a genuine shot of breaking into the NRL. The Gold Coast Titans beat bids from the Wellington-based Southern Orcas and the Central Coast to become the NRL's 16th team in 2007.
Talk of playing in the British Super League failed to gain traction while Wellington also unsuccessfully bid to become New Zealand's initial entrant in the competition in 1995.
While the NRL has not yet publicly asked for bids or expressed a desire to expand, reports have suggested expansion to 18 teams is on the cards for 2013, the year a new television deal kicks in.
NRL chief executive David Gallop has said the most likely 17th team would be based in Gosford on the Central Coast and has hinted the 18th could be based in south-east Queensland.
An 18-team competition is preferred to avoid weekly byes.
While Wellington appears to be starting its run from behind, Hemson, Wellington Rugby League's ambitious general manager, said he'd had encouraging discussions with the NRL, Wellington City Council and Westpac Stadium over the last year.
Hemson said rather than trying to fight with the AFL in Perth or Adelaide, the NRL wanted to shore up its strongholds of Australia's east coast and New Zealand.
"We believe that for the long-term future of rugby league here there needs to be at least one other team out of New Zealand and we're working away on it at the moment.
"We've been keeping it low key because we want to get all our things lined up before we go public with it.
"There's been good support from Wellington City Council to work with us and the [Westpac] Stadium are obviously keen for it to happen as well."
With the world in the midst of an economic recession, Hemson admitted there would be plenty of sceptics questioning the NRL's ability to successfully expand.
He also accepted Wellington's existing professional sports teams, the Hurricanes, Lions and Phoenix, were struggling to attract big crowds.
"With the current economic climate, yeah sure there'll be certain doubts as to whether we could get something up and going but I really believe that we've got the base as far as the footballing talent goes in this country, to have a second team." Hemson said his discussions with NRL operations manager Graham Annesley had been positive.
"Graham basically has said while there's been no call for bids to come in for expansion, they'll always look at a good business proposal. And obviously with the success of the Warriors they see New Zealand as being a key part of the future."
Hemson said he was driving a bid team but other members preferred to stay anonymous at this stage.
"Other people have had the dream and I guess I'm just wanting to see it fulfilled really.
"here's been two cracks at it previously and for whatever reason those two didn't get off the track."
Hemson, an Australian who moved to Wellington in 1990, has a 32-year association with league as a player, coach and referee and his employment history includes work in sales, marketing and business roles before taking the reins as WRL general manager this year.
Hemson also worked for a major sponsor of the Titans in 2007 and last year, where he struck up a relationship with Gold Coast chief executive and successful bid leader Michael Searle.
He said the NRL was open to a good business plan, which Hemson had already prepared.
"You've just basically got to prove that you've got a sustainable plan and a sustainable vision."
The next step was attracting enough financial support which would be difficult in tough times.
"We've come into it when the world financial crisis is happening but I think everyone realises we're going to come out of it, it's just a matter of how long.
"If things start to pick up with the world economy, there's going to be lots of opportunities out there for businesses looking to promote themselves and get involved in a venture like this.
"In three, four, five years time I'd imagine there will be businesses out there looking at some creative ways at backing something like this."
Hemson had also met with WCC staff, including councillor John Morrison, who were receptive to the bid plan, while games could also be shared around the country.
 

playdaball_old

Guest
I thought the NRL were more keen on:

- A Central Coast team
- Another SE Qld team

I'm unsure how another NZ NRL team would go - financially
 
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Northern_Union

Guest
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Seeeeensatioooooooooooooonal!

I wonder if that Belgium millionaire is still on the seen and willing to back this bid?

Couple of things. The club needs to be targeted at Christchrch as well as Wellington, perhapes with club colours being red/black/yellow. Warriors need to be know as Nothern Warriors or just simple the Warriors while the Wellington bid needs to be known as the Southern Orcas...and yes the local derby would be massive!
I remember back to when the Gold Coast got back in an NRL spoken Brenda Telfer on radio sport and stated that a second NZ side would be the next cab of the rank....well as we all know the world has changed some what at least we know a second team is on the radar.
The NRL also needs to look at the bigger picture. The RFL is for going to an extent it's own needs to boost the world game. They have brought into the professional game the Catalan Dragons and Celtic Crusaders and now they are looking to move a second French club in the ESL and a Scotish team is put together for a long term stint in the ESL. New Zealand is crying out for a second NRL team, the NRL needs to help lift the world game as the ESL has done and is doing.
 

playdaball_old

Guest
How are Celtic Crusaders going - both on and off the field?
Perhaps quite hard as it is still early days but do you think that Wgtn or Ch Ch fans would continue to turn out to support an Orcas team in the middle of winter if the team is at the bottom of the table?

Even in the darkest days the Warriors still had 5,000 loyal fans who'd turn out rain, hail or wind!

The same applies to the 'Quins in London - more so off field / crowd support. There has bene a professional team in London for years - Fulham, Colonials, Broncos, Harleqins yet they still cannot attract decent crowds and support. The other interesting thing is that London now has a 'booming' local league.
 
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LordGnome_old

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I wouldn't worry about crowds, the Super 14 seems to survive on 4,000-6,000 odd on rainy days.
 

Northern_Union

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Rugby league in the schools is booming in London as you say PDB. In fact research conducted last year showed that only 49% of TV viewers of both the ESL and the English national RL side were in the north of England, the other 51% were in London and the south.
The Crusaders are going ok as far as crowd support, they have been running at around the 5 to 6000 mark which isn't bad when you consider the previous professional team in that area was a rugby union one which never averaged more than around 3000, from this club came the Celtic Crusaders.
It's a little far fetched to throw London and Bridend into the same catagory as Canterbury and Wellington, both of which have had a strong league presence for 100 years+. Also both Wellington and Canterbury have had crowds for NRL matches at around the 20000 mark and around 18000 for international matches. Given these numbers you'd suspect that the bed rock support for those cities would also be in the 5000 to 6000 mark when things are going badely.
 

playdaball_old

Guest
Rugby league in the schools is booming in London as you say PDB. In fact research conducted last year showed that only 49% of TV viewers of both the ESL and the English national RL side were in the north of England, the other 51% were in London and the south.
The Crusaders are going ok as far as crowd support, they have been running at around the 5 to 6000 mark which isn't bad when you consider the previous professional team in that area was a rugby union one which never averaged more than around 3000, from this club came the Celtic Crusaders.
It's a little far fetched to throw London and Bridend into the same catagory as Canterbury and Wellington, both of which have had a strong league presence for 100 years+. Also both Wellington and Canterbury have had crowds for NRL matches at around the 20000 mark and around 18000 for international matches. Given these numbers you'd suspect that the bed rock support for those cities would also be in the 5000 to 6000 mark when things are going badely.

I hope you are right NU. In saying that I still believe that CC and SE QLD will be first 'cabs off the rank"
 

Northern_Union

Guest
For the sake of rugby league in New Zealand i hope they look at the bigger picture outside of NSW and Queensland.
 

2big2strong_old

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One thing that is really grinding my gears at the moment, is the whole Central Coast bid... It's BS.

There is already 9 clubs in Sydney, obviously more than half of the entire competition and the Central Coast is basically North Sydney. So we'll have basically 10 clubs in Sydney, and an 11th just up the road at Newcastle in an INTERNATIONAL competition. It's really pissing me off just how much the NRL is considering that option instead of looking at other areas of Aus or NZ.
 

Northern_Union

Guest
Can't see it happening. To many security issues there even though they are rugby league mad.
My guess is that the Central Coast will be the next side in with both Perth and Wellington equal second.
 

Jesbass_old

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NU, what support would there be for a Christchurch-based club? I would have thought it'd make sense to have a North Island club and a South Island club - not two in the North Island. Especially with the dropping Super 14 crowds, (which are really bad in Dunedin, but I don't know what they're like in Christchurch).
 

Northern_Union

Guest
NU, what support would there be for a Christchurch-based club? I would have thought it'd make sense to have a North Island club and a South Island club - not two in the North Island. Especially with the dropping Super 14 crowds, (which are really bad in Dunedin, but I don't know what they're like in Christchurch).

When the push came last for clubs to join the NRL the Wellington Orcas were known as the Southern Orcas, the idea was for a club to be based in Wellington but playing half it's matches in Christchurch also. I think the idea would work well. Wellington and Christchuch would only have 6 homes matches each so you don't end up with the same problem you do with the Warriors and thats Aucklanders taking for granted they have an NRL club and don't need to support the club each second week.
The local darby games between what would be the Sorthern Orcas v Northern Warriors would be mouth watering, a full house would almost certainly be a dead cert each time they play.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
When the push came last for clubs to join the NRL the Wellington Orcas were known as the Southern Orcas, the idea was for a club to be based in Wellington but playing half it's matches in Christchurch also. I think the idea would work well. Wellington and Christchuch would only have 6 homes matches each so you don't end up with the same problem you do with the Warriors and thats Aucklanders taking for granted they have an NRL club and don't need to support the club each second week.
The local darby games between what would be the Sorthern Orcas v Northern Warriors would be mouth watering, a full house would almost certainly be a dead cert each time they play.

I would imagine playing out of two venues would hurt the team's on-field performances.
 

garyhobson_old

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NZ wont get a 2nd team in the nrl, they dont deserve to either. Even after 14 years in the nrl NZ Warriors relies heavily on imports, australian players. Warriors field a team over 50% australian. Since Warriors have been in the nrl, they have performed average, just under the 50% success rate, we have conceded more points than we have for.

In all key positions fullback,five eight, halfback, hooker, its all australian. Except this season with Stacey Jones coming out of retirement to play halfback.
 

ToiletDuck_old

Guest
NZ wont get a 2nd team in the nrl, they dont deserve to either. Even after 14 years in the nrl NZ Warriors relies heavily on imports, australian players. Warriors field a team over 50% australian. Since Warriors have been in the nrl, they have performed average, just under the 50% success rate, we have conceded more points than we have for.

In all key positions fullback,five eight, halfback, hooker, its all australian. Except this season with Stacey Jones coming out of retirement to play halfback.

That's quite a glass half-full assessment. I don't think you can assess success by looking at overall points for and against. However you do raise some interesting points.

Everyone in Australia wanks on about the Central Coast...if it's going to be so successful then move a failing Sydney club there.

Another SE QLD team wouldn't be a bad idea, given how rugby league mad the state is...noone plays Union north of Brisbane. I'm guessing they'd be looking at Sunny coast as a base for the club, but would incorporate that whole surrounding area.
 

Northern_Union

Guest
NZ wont get a 2nd team in the nrl, they dont deserve to either. Even after 14 years in the nrl NZ Warriors relies heavily on imports, australian players. Warriors field a team over 50% australian. Since Warriors have been in the nrl, they have performed average, just under the 50% success rate, we have conceded more points than we have for.

In all key positions fullback,five eight, halfback, hooker, its all australian. Except this season with Stacey Jones coming out of retirement to play halfback.

Have you bothered to look through the NRL and ESL and Toyota cup playing rosters? There are literally hundreds of New Zealaners playing professionally but because you don't see them in a Warriors jersey you don't think they exist?