General NRL Concussion Thread/Head High Tackle

Do you agree with the new high contact rule?

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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,390
NFL one I believe is more head clashes, some players will even lead with the head.
think it was Sup42 Sup42 that mentioned the high velocity coming to a sudden stop does a great deal of damage- regardless of helmets

Yeah the brain bounces off the skull. Thankfully the new tech helmets with the shock absorbent materials lining the insides are much better now.

This type of injury is called a contra coup injury....where the brain bounces inside the skull slamming into the side of the hard bone.

We have been witnessing it in rugby league for years, without really realising what we were looking at.

When you see a well performed spot tackle, at high speed, and the players head gets rocked, without being touched, due to the deceleration forces and the jolting impact...you will see these woozy guys stumbling about after they stand up....that is it right there......brain injury....no head contact.
 

john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
3,448
tauranga
Yeah the brain bounces off the skull. Thankfully the new tech helmets with the shock absorbent materials lining the insides are much better now.

This type of injury is called a contra coup injury....where the brain bounces inside the skull slamming into the side of the hard bone.

We have been witnessing it in rugby league for years, without really realising what we were looking at.

When you see a well performed spot tackle, at high speed, and the players head gets rocked, without being touched, due to the deceleration forces and the jolting impact...you will see these woozy guys stumbling about after they stand up....that is it right there......brain injury....no head contact.
From my days playing when head high tackles (Stiff Arms) were the norm.Must be a lot of guys suffering...
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,390
From my days playing when head high tackles (Stiff Arms) were the norm.Must be a lot of guys suffering...

The silent pandemic.

The times when I have looked after at risk youth and thought to myself, you come across as someone who has been brain damaged.

When you talk to these kids they will freely acknowledge being punched in the head at home.

Knocked off is a thing, there are a lot of knocked off adults around and I have always wondered how many were shaken as babies.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,390
Like sueing the army when you get shot

In the Army you know the risks.

In sport to some degree the risk was not so well understood....it certainly was not fully understood, and probably still is not.

Therefore I conclude that ignorance is a defence, and where sports bodies have been proven to supress and hide the risk, that you should be able to sue the shit out of them.
 

bruce

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Sep 1, 2015
20,375
Sporting competitions around the world have been putting in procedures to protect players to guard against law suits along with protecting the welfare of their athletes.

That was all after CTE is was discovered and a lot of incidents with ex NFL players showing disturbing behaviour.

I'm a bit mixed on suing the sporting body for effects from their playing time from before CTE was discovered. The American sue for everything thinking seems to be moving to the rest of the world.

Goulding was a loose unit at the best of times. Guessing that was before the head knocks.

So that was the problem with the dickhead?

The game cannot afford this, if this keeps up we are farked.
 

Wigan Warrior

1st Grade Fringe
May 23, 2012
624
Wigan, England
In the Army you know the risks.

In sport to some degree the risk was not so well understood....it certainly was not fully understood, and probably still is not.

Therefore I conclude that ignorance is a defence, and where sports bodies have been proven to supress and hide the risk, that you should be able to sue the shit out of them.

I would argue that you know the risks in sport too, especially a contact sport that prides itself on being tough, and at the end of the day nobody forces you to play.

Goulding was a pretty dirty player who didn't mind throwing the odd high shot or having the odd punch up. His off field life wasn't exactly clean either.

Former Leeds player Chev Walker has posted this
 

mrblonde

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 14, 2012
4,116
Auckland
I said this a few months ago when the NRL had it's huge crackdown on head-high tackles over Magic Round which lasted an impressive fortnight or so:

"My view - and I imagine this is the NRL's and Mr Vlandy's as well - is that while the players might know the risks, the families don't - or don't think bad things will happen to them - and if their ex-NRL-player family member starts showing signs of dementia in his 50s, they might well look for someone/an organisation to blame and sue the crap out of accordingly. The NRL - and the lack of a financial kitty, as was exposed by COVID last year and the way the NRL messed themselves over the threat of the media money being lowered or taken away from them, is a large part in this reasoning to be fair, not hearts and caring and rainbows and shit - would really much rather that the Blamed Person/Organisation being sued the crap out of was not them.

A way out of that would be to insert a standardised "I and my extended family members shall not, under any circumstances, take legal action against the National Rugby League - or any descendant Rugby League organisation in the future - for any permanent, chronic or debilitating injuries, whether physical, mental or intellectual, suffered by me during my career in the National Rugby League - or any descendant Rugby League organisation in the future, where the aforementioned injury may or did occur due to playing behaviours, habits, situations and environments during my career." clause into every NRL player's contract. A lot of players would say Nah, No, Nope, Negatory, to that.

I thought the Papalii send-off was fair.

If you want to really blame anyone, don't blame Vlandy, he's protecting the sport. Blame lawyers and litigious people."

And as the 12th Man said as Richie Benaud, "Yes, well, I really couldn't agree with me more on that one!"
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
5,578
Another factor is that in both Rugby Codes the games are faster and the players bigger and better conditioned , therefore the collisions are more severe, as a natural conclusion there are more head trauma..

Tactics and techniques have also changed, in Union 'cleaning out' and in League wrestling. Also tackles are higher now to wrap up the ball. One thing that is never mentioned is there is no control of these knocks in training, a Coach can subject players to big hits for as long as he wants. We see Coaches using the HIA as a free interchange. My view is they have a duty of care for their players.

A bit left field but the grounds played on are far superior to the old days, nothing like a mud patch to slow things down.
 

snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 12, 2013
10,099
Auckland
Another factor is that in both Rugby Codes the games are faster and the players bigger and better conditioned , therefore the collisions are more severe, as a natural conclusion there are more head trauma..

Tactics and techniques have also changed, in Union 'cleaning out' and in League wrestling. Also tackles are higher now to wrap up the ball. One thing that is never mentioned is there is no control of these knocks in training, a Coach can subject players to big hits for as long as he wants. We see Coaches using the HIA as a free interchange. My view is they have a duty of care for their players.

A bit left field but the grounds played on are far superior to the old days, nothing like a mud patch to slow things down.
I have seen discussions around training in the past and if the governing bodies may in future try and mandate around what they can do at training. Not sure how that would be enforced maybe have people turn up like drug testers.

Getting the coaches on board would be key as they want high intensity the majority of the time. The old adage of how you train is how you would play. It would take a change of mindset throughout the codes. There are other sports where athletes taper off to peak for the competition.

They should be peaking for the weekend not bashing each other up over the weekend.
 

bruce

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Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,375
He was a loose unit- him and Gary freeman used to go at it something fierce.
I handed him a vivid and my nz flag to sign after a test match in chch but he only grabbed the flag- said thanks lad and walked off waving it haha.
On a tour out here when the bottom of Queen Street had the fancy bars and restaurants he led a group of younger players being a plain cock, wearing full tour formal gear, abusing people in a restaurant, pissing on cars out side.
Just a disgrace to the game and to be honest that is not the behaviour one expects from northern league people.
 

Rizzah

Stop Being Shit
Contributor
Apr 18, 2012
5,414
Dunedin, NZ
Carl Hayman doesn’t want to forget
He played 441 games of professional rugby and is now suing World Rugby and the RFU after being diagnosed with early-onset dementia at 41.
 

Defence

Warriors 1st Grader
May 9, 2012
6,306
I saw that on a kiwi Facebook page and Bobby Goulding (not sure what he’s doing on there?) who we were speaking about in another thread commented that has has just been diagnosed with the same.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,375
If you want to really blame anyone, don't blame Vlandy, he's protecting the sport. Blame lawyers and litigious people."
Peter Fitzsimons wrote a good piece on this some years ago.

He was addressing the litigation in the US from NFL, and said it would kill all contact codes eventually.

One thing I cannot understand is are we getting more of this, or not?

Carl Hayman was a big tough guy, one of the best textbook props around.

Geoff Old was in my era, a genuinely tall, big tough guy.

Shontayne Hape was a fearsome player of the more modern era.

They all have early symptoms.

Also in my era was Ken Stirling. There was nothing to him physically but he was a ferocious tackler, so much so that the little moron Alex Murphy hit him late with a knee charge to sort him out. Ken still has all his marbles.

There was nothing to Murphy either, and that little shite has his marbles as well.

Shane Varley was smaller than Ken, last I knew he had all his marbles.

I often see the guys I played with, many were Kiwis, apart from Mike McLennan nobody has had dementia.

There are two differences between now and then.

Back then head high tackles were regular, so was eye gouging, head butting, you name it. Now they are over the top with any head contact.

These days the players in both codes are gym junkies, so have more muscle. However the Polynesian guys back then were tough enough to tackle anyway.

Quite honestly I just don't get it.
 
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john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
3,448
tauranga
Peter Fitzsimons wrote a good piece on this some years ago.

He was addressing the litigation in the US from NFL, and said it would kill all contact codes eventually.

One thing I cannot understand is are we getting more of this, or not?

Carl Hayman was a big tough guy, one of the best textbook props around.

Geoff Old was in my era, a genuinely tall, big tough guy.

Shontayne Hape was a fearsome player of the more modern era.

They all have early symptoms.

Also in my era was Ken Stirling. There was nothing to him physically but he was a ferocious tackler, so much so that the little moron Alex Murphy hit him late with a knee charge to sort him out. Ken still has all his marbles.

There was nothing to Murphy either, and that little shite has his marbles as well.

Shane Varley was smaller than Ken, last I knew he had all his marbles.

I often see the guys I played with, many were Kiwis, apart from Mike McLennan nobody has had dementia.

There are two differences between now and then.

Back then head high tackles were regular, so was eye gouging, head butting, you name it. Now they are over the top with any head contact.

These days the players in both codes are gym junkies, so have more muscle. However the Polynesian guys back then were tough enough to tackle anyway.

Quite honestly I just don't get it.
Probably more science around these days and in our days guys just sucked it up.
Pretty sure there are lots of older guys suffering in silence
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,375
Probably more science around these days and in our days guys just sucked it up.
Pretty sure there are lots of older guys suffering in silence
Yes, but more than before?
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,755
Yes, but more than before?
maybe not, maybe the same amount. its a hidden problem as reserch on it didnt exist in the 60, 70s etc. also u and i can both be hit identically and both suffer differently, due to differences at birth, past history, life style choices etc.
it also used to be cool to suffer in silence, but those days are gone and now its all about the money. But then so is the sport. imo thats the biggest change, its no longer sport its big money entertainment, and why shouldnt the players benefit from it.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,375
maybe not, maybe the same amount. its a hidden problem as reserch on it didnt exist in the 60, 70s etc. also u and i can both be hit identically and both suffer differently, due to differences at birth, past history, life style choices etc.
it also used to be cool to suffer in silence, but those days are gone and now its all about the money. But then so is the sport. imo thats the biggest change, its no longer sport its big money entertainment, and why shouldnt the players benefit from it.
I forgot about Mocky Brereton from my era. One of the best Kiwi wingers ever, a typical West Coaster, and not a slight guy either. He has Parkinsons.

Mark Graham still seems to be ok, and heyzeuss did he take some hits, let alone handing them out.

Sure I know the hits hurt, but it still seems a bit random to me.
 
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