Post Match NRL 2016 - Round 10 - Panthers vs Warriors Post Match Discussion

[wizards rage]

David, i think the comment that we werent that bad is incorrect. I think the warriors werent that good. It is my belief that Shaun Johnson failed to lead the players on the field and that he relies on instinctive ability rather than football smarts. This was a similar issue with Benji. No one in the team knows what hes going to do, because he doesnt know. Unless its the last play and they are more than 40 out in which case he will try and kick it over the sideline every time (although, this looks like a coaching decision to me, personal bitch).

Shaun Johnson is the player responsible for creating the magic. And hes damn good at it. But he appears to get no support in directing the team. Hell i cant even tell if he is directing the team either. It wasnt the errors i lamented over the weekend it was the lack of 5th play options.

Sorry OMG i think that to blame others is wrong. I think this game came down to an incredible solo act that is unable to think his team round the park. He desperately needs another kicker out there. He desperately needs another thinker out there. The pressure he is under must be incredible, people want him to single handedly save the game, but until he stops trying to do that and directs the play, i cant see him or the team improving.

you have been saying that its the fault of the Forwards, props mainly. And that he gets no time to make a play. But like in Chess he should be thinking 3 - 4 steps ahead. If you know your forwards are getting dominated, change your options. Stop doing the same thing every time.

Yes i am just a keyboard warrior, but even i can see that when the brain is dead the body will just keep doing the same thing time after time. I honestly dont know that without Shaun Johnson on the park that the score would have been any different. Still a loss. But really no worse IMO.

Agree! Our two main issues are -

Props (& backrowers) - on attack and defence we lack the size and power to dominate games - They don't tire the defence and get too tired defending. Our lower run meters most games and negative PD reflect this. We are always more fatigued at the end of the games (and hence dumb plays and errors), not because we are unfit, but more gas is taken out of us, than we can take out of them - 2011, when we last made the finals we had the heavier, experience, harder hitting Rapira, Lillyman, Matalino and Packer combo and we have gone backwards since then.

Shaun Johnson - He is an instinctive, individually brilliant player but lacking in organising, kicking and general tactical play. Not his fault, he is what he is - we need a structured player in the halves to compliment him (NOT LOLO). The team desperately needs controlling from the halves and Shaun Johnson is not the one to do it. We have not made the finals in 5 years with Shaun Johnson in charge since Maloney took us to the GF.

No amount of tweaking with the lineup, blaming reserves rotation, blaming player IQ, blaming errors, blaming fitness will fix this until these two core problems are solved and it has to come from outside the club. With the players he has, week to week, the coach cannot change much - although the coach is responsible for getting the players he needs. Also why Bully and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck didn't make the team awesome - they didn't address our 2 core problems!

 

[mt.wellington]

Flew down to Christchurch on game day. Got there at 10am and headed straight to the Gary Clark museum in Woolston. Taxi ride cost me $95! Mad Butcher had put on a event to showcase the place. He had sent down some of his personal collection when he decided to break it up. There was quite a few people from Auckland there. Also there Jim Doyle and his wife, Simon Mannering, Ben Henry, Jerome Ropati and Shontayne Hape. There was free beers and BBQ and even when we left at 4pm there was still heaps left. This event was by far the highlight of my trip. Was so awesome to be talking to other leagies around so much history. Got on the piss with Hape who was only too happy to share war stories.

By the time I got to the stadium I was tripping balls. The box had more free piss. Shontayne followed us to the box where Logan Edwards and Whetu Taewa were hosting us. Rugby League Park was a great little purpose built stadium. Cant really remember the game and after reading all the posts before mine Im almost glad I cant.

Thought the crowd were quiet most the game but most the people I went with and met were amped to be attending the game. Didnt make it to the after match function at Iconic Bar and instead went to a house across the road from the stadium of some people I met at the museum.

Great time in Christchurch and would definitely do it all again. Pity the team didnt deliver but good to see the Panthers rewarded for bringing a game to the South Island...

 

[Leaguegod]

Did Logan Edwards share his thoughts on how the Warriors could improve? I felt Logan had a great league mind and should have made a great coach, he was a provincial legend but it was too late for him when the warriors came along, fuck it was pretty loose when he was there, I bet he would have some good (not so good depends how you looked at then) yarns. Cheers bro

 

[imallrin]

A few things for people to think about:
1. Shaun Johnson and Leuluai have never really gelled as a halves pairing. The best we've ever seen them was in the kiwis with Leuluai at hooker. For some reason when they are paired together in the halves - our attack stutters so badly, it just really is comical.
2. When Shaun Johnson and Leuluai are together - Shaun Johnson does 90% of the field kicking meaning the opposition are able to put so much more pressure on him. When Tevaga is playing hooker and Lolohea at fullback - it means we really only have one kicking option on the field. All the pressure and attention from the opposition goes straight onto Shaun Johnson. Look at the kick stats for evidence, I think Leuluai made one kick?
3. Shaun Johnson is responsible for the attack, but pretty hard to be fully accountable if the pack isn't delivering. Look at the receive stats for the weekend - typically earlier in the season it was approximately 50-50 between Shaun Johnson and Robson. Leuluai's receives were about 70% of SJs.

Since Maloney left, the best Shaun Johnson has looked was with Townsend last season. But he also had Tomkins at the back supporting him where needed.

Shaun Johnson looks the best in the kiwis with Foran in the halves with him, Leuluai or Luke at hooker. Maybe we should look to replicate that as best we can.

Lolohea needs to go back to the halves to help Shaun Johnson out. Leuluai has no creative spark. Yes I think Lolohea is a better wing than five eighth, but if his long term future is in the halves - he needs to be playing there. His combination with Shaun Johnson is much better than Leuluai's. Fusitua has been fine at fullback - put him back there. Allwood or Manu come onto the wing. (at this stage, I prefer Allwood's defence, but unless our forwards grow some balls, maybe Manu's hitups and charges are more of what we need).

I like Tevaga, but not sure where to play him. He doesn't strike me as a genuine first grade hooker yet and he's not big enough to play lock (IMO). His heart can't be questioned. In terms of offence and defence right now - I'd be using Luke and Leuluai at hooker. Maybe Leuluai to start the game with his defence, and Luke to come on when the opposition pack tires a bit.

Well said, my thoughts exactly, I just wouldn't have crazy eyes at all, he is well past it IMO. I would have Luke/Tevaga as hooker combo, apart from that I agree 100%

 

[imallrin]

Went to the game, was pretty boozed by kickoff, only a few things stood out

• The wind, at least a 12 point wind, Johnson kicking it dead, just unbelievable.
  
  
• Matt Cecchin, I haven’t watched a replay, were those penalties legit? They just killed us, if they were legit that’s terrible discipline, if they weren’t he needs to be added to the growing list of refs where if you see their name on the match preview, can write it off as a loss.
  
  
• Ayshford had a massive moan to the ref after one of the 2nd half panther tries, was giving it the full arm waving and pleading for them take a look, good effort Blake.
  
  
• Some good finishing from Kata and wright

Also…Shaun Johnson could be embezzling the pensions of old ladies, and some people around here would say they were asking for it and its not Shaun Johnson’s fault.

And if they sold glass bottles at games, would have been tempted to throw one in the direction of Ben Matulino, other than errors, wouldn’t know he was even playing, he’s a disgrace at the moment.

Matalino is a waste of space, they will never move him on though

 

[Leaguegod]

Jwh joins warriors and Hayne goes to stand off and we have a top 4 team.

 

[facefacts]

I think a lot of the problems particularly with the forwards is the players game IQ.

Now no forward cant run like a maniac every hit-up, it just isn't sustainable.
I would say even the best forwards in the game only put in around 70-80% effort in the vast majority of their hit-ups...the difference is the good props or should i say the well coached props know exactly when his team needs the 100% raging bull, run through a brick wall hit-up, but our blokes dont seem to have any idea, it's just the same gear every run, all game.

Unfortunately it's something that is a problem throughout the squad and almost always has been...Our players dont seem to understand or recognize the different situations throughout a game and how they should be playing to suit....there are so many times in a game when we all know what our team should be doing because we've seen the well coached sides do them for years, but our guys just dont seem to have any idea, and i think that is where our 60 minute team reputation has come from...our players dont know what to do in those pressure minutes because it hasn't been drilled into them, it's not second nature.

We need an elite coach to turn this joint around pure and simple...we need one to teach our players how to win, and what they need to do every game, every week to keep winning, and we need one of these coaches to get rid of those players who cant learn or wont learn.

 

[Wellington Warrior]

Lol...

 

[RedbullAndPills]

There was a comment made on one of the footy shows on the weekend that defences these days are making the initial contact trying to wrap the ball up, hold the ball player upright, and then bring him down 3-4 seconds later, which slows down the play-the-ball and gives the defensive line time to reset and number up. My initial thoughts were - if I knew the opposition player was going to cuddle me, not hit me with the shoulder, and try to keep me upright... I'd be running straight into their chest as hard as I possibly could with the intention of going to ground before the 2nd-3rd-4th player can get into the tackle. It would speed up the play the ball, confuse their defensive line, and you get the chance of a penalty if the 2nd/3rd/4th come in too late.

Problem with that is the ref calls surrender, and they can lay all over all day.

 

[Jay M]

Problem with that is the ref calls surrender, and they can lay all over all day.

not if you instigate the contact and are still in contact when you drop. (well they shouldn't anyway).

 

[way2sharp]

Jwh joins warriors and Hayne goes to stand off and we have a top 4 team.

But lose all our points for breaching the salary cap

 

[Leaguegod]

But lose all our points for breaching the salary cap

I was hoping we dump lillyman, TL and Robson e.t.c

 

[Makasene]

Not sure what game you were watching, but the ball went backwards from Johnson onto the back of a panthers player and backwards from that to another penrith player who scored, also when the ball is in the in goal line the rules are different

He's talking about the Gavet offload

 

[Makasene]

What annoys me is that the panthers have overtaken us as a development club and are doing it well.

You see the likes of Moylan, Dallin Watene-Zelezniak, Cartwright and Peachey coming through and blooming where our players are stagnating.

Cleary knew how to develop a club and Hook is reaping the rewards, if the Panthers can stay fit and keep that squad together they are going to be a force over the next few years. I wish I could say the same about us.

Peachy came from the Sharks but take your point on the other guys.

It's been noted before but there is a real issue with our young talent blossoming elsewhere. Agnatius Passi and Taukeiaho come to mind.

 

[way2sharp]

Peachy came from the Sharks but take your point on the other guys.

It's been noted before but there is a real issue with our young talent blossoming elsewhere. Agnatius Passi and Taukeiaho come to mind.

Not Matalino, Johnson, Lolohia, Kata, Fusitua who are all internationals...#formerjuniors-notblossoming

 

[Maraea]

not that it guarantees anything but tevaga isn't a union convert far as I know. pretty much everybody else is far as I know?

 

[Leaguegod]

For every Passi and Taukeiaho that succeed there are 20 that don't, get chewed up and spat out, and I think herein lies the warriors problem, we make it too easy for our top juniors which is why most aussie scouts pick our cream at ages 13-15 before they get screwed up, where the fuck are our pathways? who wants to hang around to join the rag tag warriors? sweet if you are in Auckland you can actually get some decent competition but down here we can't even fill our premier teams! Wgtn rugby league can go get Fucked! and if I hear the tosspots calling for a 2nd NRL team to be based in WGTN I will personally deface their homomobiles!! my blood pressure just went through the roof. sorry.

 

[MXRecord]

and if I hear the tosspots calling for a 2nd NRL team to be based in WGTN I will personally deface their homomobiles!! my blood pressure just went through the roof. sorry.

2nd NRL team in Christchurch and watch them walk all over The Warriors.