Post Match NRL 2016 - Rnd 6 - Warriors vs Manly Post Match Discussion

Game Information

Vs

01 Jan 1970 12:00
minute

Are the Warriors really top 8 material?

  • Locked in

  • Yeh

  • Unsure?

  • Nope

  • Not a chance!


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I have avoided this thread for ground hog day reasons, I feel like I'm slowly dementing following these Warriors...I swear they make repetitive naggers out of us all.

Manly have the recipe on how to beat us.

They literally do. Step by step they know the exact template to beat the Warriors.

Before the ball is even Kicked, they understand the full picture, from the broad brush strokes, to the careful attention to detail.

My frustration is that they know how we play....while we seem to not understand ourselves (see Lillymans inane comments about I dunno why we didn't show up....he sounds like a donkey from an AA Milne classic when he talks....said exactly the same thing after the Tigers game).

Lillyman has been scratching his head since he first came here.

Broad picture stuff (wot Manly know and our players are too ignorant to accept) :

The Warriors can't defend for extended periods. Therefore, if you have the ball more often than them, they will not be able to keep you out. They will panic. They will lose.

It really is that simple.

No matter what the coach preps the Warriors for....broadly they can't stay in the game mentally when the other team has the ball...their attention waivers.

The Warriors are a confidence side who rely on a couple or three individuals to carry them in the donkey work. If you concentrate all your efforts of stopping those few select players....the rest are parasites....kill the host.....I think you know where this is going....tis why our lack of off the ball work sees us a soft target.

Perfect example, as mt.wellington mt.wellington pointed out....Manly chose to drive Ben Mutts back on tackle one. The rest of the game became about their territorial dominance.

When Manu is playing....Brisbane use the same tactic on him.

So...where we should have support runners for our forwards we do not move up in numbers. Where we should have a mindset to soak up the early dominance of Manly's aggression...and dig in....get into the grind with them.....we are too reactive to get the need to be patient.

Another broad stroke Manly understand, is that the Warriors kicking options are very limited. Pressure Johnson, force him to make long range field kicks....and he will struggle.

I call that the brains part of the machine....the playmakers.....when their forwards (the brawn) are struggling....it is up to the brain to find territory with their boot.


As a fan you are willing the forwards to run even harder....as if somehow that will magically make them bust Manlys three man gang tackles.

It won't.

Albert Vete made ground by virtue of avoiding the middle.

His best runs were on the edges.

So how do you overcome Manly's gang tackling ?

Offloading.

The Warriors unfortunately do not have enough off the ball drive to be there in support of the offloading runner...which leads to errors.

In fact our players are so far behind the lead runner, that when an offload is fired.....it lands on the grass....at about where the runner started his run in the first place....so yeah our offloads are so shit they lose us ground and the ball.


The other way to deal against being driven back is to surrender in the tackle, go low on contact, get yourself to the ground on your front.....fight in the play the ball (Hold the ball tight, no body resistance....bobble your head and kick feet....we all know the action)....put pressure on the Refs to call it....

Credit to some Warriors at least they tried to find a way around Manly's legendary wall.....credit to Manly....they are the best in the comp at it.

What needs to happen is that the off the ball work needs to go up a gear.

This is an individual responsibility....and where Players....not coaches....need shoulder the blame for our predicament.

Manly players get it....they have had several changes of coach in the time they have played us....yet the player understanding of how easy the Warriors are to 'out effort' is only matched by the obviousness of our own ignorance of our weakness.

We could learn a lot from Manly....not about how to be more like them....but how to be less like ourselves.

The bolded parts are so on the money. It has frustrated me for a long time that the attack is so lost. It's like our guys are so used to having no structure that they don't know how to attack (or defend for that matter) in one line. We make so many breaks and offloads where nobody supports. The 3/4s should be swarming around Mutts and Lisone, Vete.

For mine the defence is not far off. They need to be harder for sure, but the glass is half full IMO. The attack needs finessing. Roger Tuivasa-Sheck was shut down because Manly, as you mentioned, shut Ben and Shaun Johnson down, and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck was the other target. They were on him in 3-man tackles all night. But a team with Lolohea, Shaun Johnson, Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Luke, Leuluai should be scoring a lot more tries than they have. I always believe that if you're scoring lots of tries, that's a lot fewer tackles you have to make also.

The age-old strategy to beat Warriors has always been to get repeat sets on their line and wait for them to break. It worked again on Saturday night.We held out for a long time TBH. It wasn't until the Kata ingoal call came that the tide turned. In a more mature team you'd say they should have showed more steel afterwards. But it was a big call at a critical stage. For me that was the turning point. We were head-to-head with them until then. The blowout was another disappointment but there were some real positives:

B Stewart didn't score-or even make a noise the whole night-first time I've seen that. They kept him quiet.

Matai was quiet until his soft try-Kata and Ayshford did well against him.

Trbjevich had less impact that I expected.

Worry signs:

We did capitulate after that bad call.

Our best playmaker lately is a winger. Need to get him in the middle. Seriously. Robbo isn't making a difference. Lolo can't be worse.
 
I think the thing that is really painful about this loss, is that it's such a blow to any progress we were making as team. It's a MASSIVE step backwards.

I can cop a close loss, especially when they're against quality opposition. And that's exactly what the loses to the Storm and Broncs were - the were both steps forward after the horror show in Campbelltown. They were learning experiences, showing our boys where we need to get to, to compete and win against the best. Can cop that.

We follow those up with an, in the end, pretty sound dispatching of a very weak Newcastle team, and a nail biter overtime win against a desperate opponent, in a situation that ordinarily we would have lost... And again, you can say we're making progress of sorts. Maybe not comprehensive progress, but at least there are aspects that are heading in the right direction.

Then we get to that game... And all that just goes flying out the window. May as well be round 1 again. It's just so gutting.

I'm not even sure what the answer is, but I look at that upcoming schedule, and I can see a very dire outcome. And then it's just another wasted season.
 
Can't remember where I read it but read a post somewhere...
A guy went to the function after the game and reckoned they players seemed split in two camps, Hoffman or Mannering. Anyone know if there is any truth to this?
 
We could have signed Matai. I don't understand the reluctance of the warriors to sign multiple year deals for senior players! we lost Tate because he wanted 3 years instead of 2 crikey quality centres deserve every penny. Kata will get there but he is twice the player when along side the beast! we could have got Chase Stanley I think our recruitment is all over the place and we don't offer enough in Job security. I will get shot down but are we sniffing around Benji? he is 3 years younger than JT surely we could snare him to 3 year deal! Vete should be front row and who would have thought Ligi Sao would so important to us. Our forwards got manhandled just showing how ineffective our back row is, Hoffman is very disappointing and Lillyman is clueless and now a liability on defence!! poor Issac is carrying an injury but I feel he should have been made captain and make ALL our calls when rucking it out then feeding Shaun Johnson on attack, all I can see to help us now is pushing Shaun Johnson in one and moving Lolo to 6 with TL on the bench and just sticking with it. that's it and one last thing that Wright is useless having 12 players is just the same as playing with him on the park.

We signed Hoffman as a senior to a long term deal, we signed Martell as long term senior signing, and then we signed Lousi, not so much a senior, to a long term contract. Not working out that well really.
 

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Is Hoffman a poor mans version of Mannering or is it the other way round ?

And do we waste a position by having both players on field at the same time?

Personally I see them as work horses cut from the same cloth. They will grind and do the dirty work but they stifle our attack. Neither of them are capable of bending the line and creating opportunities which simply puts more pressure on Mutts or Thompson or Shaun Johnson to create something from nothing.

Time for change and a different approach.
 
Personally I see them as work horses cut from the same cloth. They will grind and do the dirty work but they stifle our attack. Neither of them are capable of bending the line and creating opportunities which simply puts more pressure on Mutts or Thompson or SJ to create something from nothing.
I think that the way we used the Hoff in his first year here is how we should be using him but for some unknown reason we went away from him running through the gap and scoring.
 
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Watch Thurston really closely tonight if you get the chance. Watch how is is in EVERYTHING. Every play he is involved, energetic and making the opposition think. Every play he takes it to the line and either passes or takes the tackle. Every time he goes into contact he is BRAVE.

I'd love to know many times Thurston touches the ball in a game compared to Johnson. I'd bet double.
Yeah but Johnson isn't first receiver. By the time Robson gets the ball to Johnson, the defense has already shut down his space. No point standing deeper on attack as the fowards aren't making the metres. Put him back at first receiver and force him to run the play and make decisions.
 
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I can see why the coaching staff love TL...

Leuluai - Warriors need to complete sets



Experienced campaigner Thomas Leuluai sees a better completion rate as a key area for the Warriors after a fourth defeat in six NRL rounds.

The Warriors' mini-revival from two successive wins was halted when they fell 34-18 to Manly in Auckland last night.

Having been down 12-0 midway through the opening spell, the home side struck back through a Blake Ayshford try to trail by six points at the break.

But they then paid for a second half in which Leuluai says there were "too many silly offloads and knock-ons".

"We were looking for the quick tries to catch up," he said.

"We played to the scoreboard instead of trying to build some pressure."


Leuluai said that, during his time with the Warriors, they had been at the best when going through the middle and playing a completion game.

When they tried to force things too much, it didn't really work.

"We just have to trust that, when those opportunities come, we take them, but our mindset should be just to complete really," he said.

The match was Leuluai's first in 11 months after he suffered a season-ending knee injury against Parramatta last May.

The utility, who normally plays in the halves or at hooker, had 31 minutes off the bench, both as dummy half and at lock.

The 34-Test Kiwi said he came through in good shape, although the body was tired after such a long time away.

"It seemed like forever out there towards the end," he said.

"It was a tough game. We didn't complete and we ended up defending a lot. I just kept my game pretty simple and tried to do a job for the boys."


Maybe he's right. I mean he has played in 5 winning Kiwi's sides beating the Kangaroos. That's a pretty small club to be a member of....
 
Oh, i know.. And i could not agree more. Johnson is so far away from doing for the warriors what JT does for the cowboys.. let alone doing it with the same consistency. The seasons keep going by and he's no closer to reaching his potential
How would Johnson go behind the Cowboys forward pack? Probably as well as he does when he has a kiwis forward pack doing the job for him.
 
Our forwards lost us that match....I don't like saying this because I'd be killed taking a bog standard hit up in a NRL match, but our forwards are soft.

What I didn't like is that many times Luke jumped out of dummy half looking for a forward and no one was there! i think he even had to give it to Johnson to hit it up!

Watching the cowboys, this move of having Johnson to 6 is just not working. Thurston gets the ball DIRECTLY from the dummy half most times when he requires it....Johnson receiving it on the 2nd pass just cuts down the space he can work with. SURELY Cappy must be seeing this!

Also, trying not to defend Johnson, but if our forwards play like that every week, he should be looking at leaving the Warriors for a club with a proper forward pack....

I watched about 4 games this weekend, and most times the 6/7 received the ball on the front foot, not sideways, not backwards, but on the back of their forwards bending the line, forcing the defenders to move backwards...this does not or did not happen enough on Saturday.

Tui needs to stop reading the papers, his 1st touch was a fumble and they score, again, he did not put his body on the line for a fairly straight forward clean up of a bouncing ball, he was watching who was coming and not the ball.

I hope they "bounce back" against the bulldogs, but I can see the same result again this week....

I'm tipping we might actually get the spoon this year.
 
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Tui needs to stop reading the papers, his 1st touch was a fumble and they score, again, he did not put his body on the line for a fairly straight forward clean up of a bouncing ball, he was watching who was coming and not the ball.
Don't you remember last year when he was at fullback? Always let the ball bounce and had many fumbles he is best suited at wing as Kearny discovered he ain't no standoff.
 
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Don't you remember last year when he was at fullback? Always let the ball bounce and had many fumbles he is best suited at wing as Kearny discovered he ain't no standoff.
So what you're saying is Vatuvei is actually a stand-off but can't catch kicks at fullback so is stuck on the wing where no one will target him with bombs?
 
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Don't you remember last year when he was at fullback? Always let the ball bounce and had many fumbles he is best suited at wing as Kearny discovered he ain't no standoff.
It's not about where he's best suited to play, it's where he wants to play that matters most...:android:

And can someone get him a participation award FFS...
 
has Johnson posted a video this week, about how he should have run more, or is he using last weeks video for the rest of the year. I also think Lolo got sucked into his own hype, no way am I blaming him for the loss but consistency would be a start, not sold on Gubbanator or GubbyBear (we will call him this week) like some on here, If he hit like Napa this week, I wouldnt have a problem with his No go forward but he was piss weak in that area as well, missed vital tackles has to be dropped.

will have another whinge if the team Im not happy with gets named
 
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