General New Zealand Politics

[Juju]

What a brilliant idea using Takapuna golf course for housing would be…. It’s only part of the flood control for Wairau Valley, which has already flooded twice this year. Gee, I wonder how many more times it would flood when housing had replaced a major overland flow area from it? I’m sure all the effected business owners on the Valley, and at least one member of this forum, would love to know why you think it’s a good idea to make it even worse.

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Settle down Mr Anger Boomer.
The council identified Takapuna becoming housing as a potential land use NOT me - so untangle your knickers.

I'll wait patiently for you to put up any sort of reasonable or coherent argument in defensive of high cost membership clubs on peppercorn rents.

You can't argue 13 courses / 536 hectares makes any kind of sense for an estimated 100 000 golfers per year.

If it wasn't golf this wouldn't even be a discussion. Embarrassing.

 

[Juju]

National would have known he was an arsehole and let him carry on because he was a sitting MP and could raise funds from his Asian constituents. Only when he turned inward did they do anything about him because they had to defend themselves. Disgusting.

He is a very unusual person.

Watch: Elements of Truth – behind the scenes of Jami-Lee Ross’ 2020 election campaign

The campaign with Billy TK Jr. The disastrous election night. That Tova O'Brien interview. This documentary was there for it all.

thespinoff.co.nz

 

[Sup42]

From politician to pimp – the transformation of Jami-Lee Ross

Concerns are raised over an escort business run by ex National MP who faced multiple allegations of sexual harassment and bullying when at Parliament.

www.newsroom.co.nz

Absurd

Pretty obvious he is a psychopath.

My Sons went to school with him.

He is the only old boy on the site to be called a cu** by his peers, according to my lads that makes him special in the long history of the old boys association.

 

[Miket12]

Settle down Mr Anger Boomer.
The council identified Takapuna becoming housing as a potential land use NOT me - so untangle your knickers.

I'll wait patiently for you to put up any sort of reasonable or coherent argument in defensive of high cost membership clubs on peppercorn rents.

You can't argue 13 courses / 536 hectares makes any kind of sense for an estimated 100 000 golfers per year.

If it wasn't golf this wouldn't even be a discussion. Embarrassing.

Sorry, you don’t seem to understand that the reason why golf courses, as most sporting and general recreational parks are located where they are is usually because, for reasons such as flooding, they’re uneconomic to develop…. which is why the report prepared for Council from 2018 has not been taken any further.

Just in the same way, the Goff report for a stadium adjacent to Quay Street wasn’t taken further…. because it wasn’t going to work. Or the cycle way attached to the harbour bridge. Just because a report has been prepared, doesn’t mean an idea will progress any further.

The area of Auckland City covers over 108,000 hectares and you’re worried that less than 0.5% of it is owned by the Council and used by 7% of the population… on land that was not developed because of the expense to develop it.

 

[Juju]

Sorry, you don’t seem to understand that the reason why golf courses, as most sporting and general recreational parks are located where they are is usually because, for reasons such as flooding, they’re uneconomic to develop…. which is why the report prepared for Council from 2018 has not been taken any further.

Just in the same way, the Goff report for a stadium adjacent to Quay Street wasn’t taken further…. because it wasn’t going to work. Or the cycle way attached to the harbour bridge. Just because a report has been prepared, doesn’t mean an idea will progress any further.

The area of Auckland City covers over 108,000 hectares and you’re worried that less than 0.5% of it is owned by the Council and used by 7% of the population… on land that was not developed because of the expense to develop it.

That still not at all a compelling argument that wasting 13 golf courses on 100 000 golf participants is worthwhile / let only giving wealthy clubs nominal rents.

That's not why the 2018 plan was abandoned at all.

Post the source of your stats you posted earlier

Of course we could always give half the courses back to the local Iwi's to manage.

 

[Dixpat]

Selling only 3 would go along way to solving the budget deficit issue and open up more housing.
Do the development in a innovative way and it benefits all of city

The city still has TEN other golf public courses remaining.
and all the other courses in the region

Honestly if this was killikitti or rollerblading this wouldn't be a discussion.

As Rizzah the clubs with expensive memberships should be paying market rent, it's obscene.

I can tell you as fact that one of the 3 (Pupuke) will not be sold at least for another 33 years or so as the Council have just renewed their lease

 

[Fonzie]

We have 5 million people, we are grossly underpopulated.

Ok so what’s the optimal number? 10m? 20m? Say it’s 10m - how much of a hurry do you need to be to get there? Should nz aim to grow by 1m a year so it reaches 10m in five years? Or by 50k per year so it takes 100 years? What growth rate can the housing market, labour market, natural environment, and urban planning goals sustain?

 

[Miket12]

That still not at all a compelling argument that wasting 13 golf courses on 100 000 golf participants is worthwhile / let only giving wealthy clubs nominal rents.

That's not why the 2018 plan was abandoned at all.

Post the source of your stats you posted earlier

Of course we could always give half the courses back to the local Iwi's to manage.

The cost of developing the land is why the 2018 plan was abandoned and replaced with one now calling for greater public access to the golf courses. To develop the land for housing would mean ensuring that firstly the land itself wouldn’t flood and secondly that flood water currently going on to the golf courses would have to be diverted (and considering that a number of these courses are in geographically low areas) at a huge expense.

I’ll try again, the reason why golf courses, and other parks, are located where they are is because the land was to expensive to develop. Don’t you think that when Council’s developed subdivisions, they would have included these areas if it was economic to do so?

 

[dean]

Ok so what’s the optimal number? 10m? 20m? Say it’s 10m - how much of a hurry do you need to be to get there? Should nz aim to grow by 1m a year so it reaches 10m in five years? Or by 50k per year so it takes 100 years? What growth rate can the housing market, labour market, natural environment, and urban planning goals sustain?

I don't know the optimal number, but lets say 20m..
That has to be planned over time, say 30 years. Immigration has to be targeted and at the same time meld with infrastructure, enviroment etc. Auckland can't remain the destination for migrants. Population needs to be spread across regions utilising the migrants skills. It can't be that difficult but the govt will find a way to make it so.

 

[dean]

The cost of developing the land is why the 2018 plan was abandoned and replaced with one now calling for greater public access to the golf courses. To develop the land for housing would mean ensuring that firstly the land itself wouldn’t flood and secondly that flood water currently going on to the golf courses would have to be diverted (and considering that a number of these courses are in geographically low areas) at a huge expense.

I’ll try again, the reason why golf courses, and other parks, are located where they are is because the land was to expensive to develop. Don’t you think that when Council’s developed subdivisions, they would have included these areas if it was economic to do so?

I suspect all golf courses would be heavily contaminated.

 

[Geoff Public]

Who said anything about social housing?

Have you heard the phrase "build it and they will come" it applies for houses.

The council already identified housing as a potential land use of 6 of the publicly owned course in 2018. Clarks Beach, Remuera, Takapuna, Omaha, Waitemata.

The Takapuna lease is up in 2025.

Seriously, I'm yet to hear any sort of reasonable argument that the current arrangement for any of the publicly own private clubs is fair.

Same people defending this bitch and moan when their rates go up.

Historically, the Council has been poor about selling large parcels of land. Marina land and the land swap that made the casino possible in its current location are 2.

Butp since we're going down this path. There's a large parcel of land of Church St being used by some well healed guy and his privately owned sports team as well as performers who rake in millions. Let's sell that fucker as well.

 

[Fonzie]

I don't know the optimal number, but lets say 20m..
That has to be planned over time, say 30 years. Immigration has to be targeted and at the same time meld with infrastructure, enviroment etc. Auckland can't remain the destination for migrants. Population needs to be spread across regions utilising the migrants skills. It can't be that difficult but the govt will find a way to make it so.

For reference, over the last decade nz has pretty much had the highest population growth rate in the developed world https://www.worlddata.info/populationgrowth.php

So I’m not surprised that infrastructure etc has been struggling to keep up

 

[dean]

Golf courses having annual spraying programs for insects and fungicidal turf disease and weeds. That is the same as any commercial vegetable growing operation. The most common of these was the small glasshouse tomato growers that were all over West Auckland once.
Usually, removal of at least the first metre of soil was required because it was contaminated. Contaminated soil dumps are very expensive to tip at. Then you need to build the levels up again as per engineered design.

 

[Juju]

Historically, the Council has been poor about selling large parcels of land. Marina land and the land swap that made the casino possible in its current location are 2.

Butp since we're going down this path. There's a large parcel of land of Church St being used by some well healed guy and his privately owned sports team as well as performers who rake in millions. Let's sell that fucker as well.

Have you tried to rent Mt Smart? It's a little bit more than the nominal rent a golf club charging members a $6k sign up fee and a $4k annual subscription in one of NZs richest suburbs is paying.

The recent RCHP and Harry Styles concerts (93k ticket buyers) is quite close to the numbers using Auckland's 13 golf courses over a year.
Those rentals and the bar revenue would be larger than 13 golf course annual lease income for the year.

Golf Courses are a stupid waste of council assets.

 

[Dixpat]

Golf Courses are a stupid waste of council assets.

In your opinion

 

[Juju]

In your opinion

Explain it to me.

That many courses in one regions for a participant base of that size.

WIth so few of the courses genuinely being open to everybody low cost.

 

[Miket12]

Have you tried to rent Mt Smart? It's a little bit more than the nominal rent a golf club charging members a $6k sign up fee and a $4k annual subscription in one of NZs richest suburbs is paying.

The recent RCHP and Harry Styles concerts (93k ticket buyers) is quite close to the numbers using Auckland's 13 golf courses over a year.
Those rentals and the bar revenue would be larger than 13 golf course annual lease income for the year.

Golf Courses are a stupid waste of council assets.

How much money does Auckland Council through Auckland Stadiums put into Mt Smart annually? How much money does AC put into North Harbour Stadium annually? How much money does AC put into Waitākere Stadium annually? What is AC’s Parks and Reserves annual budget?

Then think of how much money do they provide to the golf clubs annually? That’s right, the Council receive money. All improvements is paid by the clubs. All expenses is paid by the clubs. The cost of repairs after floods to buildings is paid by insurance and the premiums are paid by the clubs. The cost of flooding to the greens is paid by the clubs. The cost of car parking is paid by the clubs. The cost of maintaining the greens is paid by the clubs. Gee, I wonder why golf clubs charge fees.

 

[Miket12]

Explain it to me.

That many courses in one regions for a participant base of that size.

WIth so few of the courses genuinely being open to everybody low cost.

$80 green fee and anyone with a free Golf NZ Flexiclub beginner membership can play 9 holes at Remuera. But don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story

 

[Juju]

How much money does Auckland Council through Auckland Stadiums put into Mt Smart annually? How much money does AC put into North Harbour Stadium annually? How much money does AC put into Waitākere Stadium annually? What is AC’s Parks and Reserves annual budget?

Then think of how much money do they provide to the golf clubs annually? That’s right, the Council receive money. All improvements is paid by the clubs. All expenses is paid by the clubs. The cost of repairs after floods to buildings is paid by insurance and the premiums are paid by the clubs. The cost of flooding to the greens is paid by the clubs. The cost of car parking is paid by the clubs. The cost of maintaining the greens is paid by the clubs. Gee, I wonder why golf clubs charge fees.

The value is in the land not the golf clubs facilities.

Why should Remuera Golf Club get a peppercorn rent?
But one private concert promoted by a private entity at Western Springs or Mt Smart pay $2r0k or 12% of ticket revenue.

Does the council derive profit from the clubs bar or hospitality income.

ARE 13 COURSE NEEDED FOR 100 000 PARTICPANTS

 

[Geoff Public]

Have you tried to rent Mt Smart? It's a little bit more than the nominal rent a golf club charging members a $6k sign up fee and a $4k annual subscription in one of NZs richest suburbs is paying.

The recent RCHP and Harry Styles concerts (93k ticket buyers) is quite close to the numbers using Auckland's 13 golf courses over a year.
Those rentals and the bar revenue would be larger than 13 golf course annual lease income for the year.

Golf Courses are a stupid waste of council assets.

We have Eden Park which can look after those events. Its privately owned. The ongoing new employment created in an industrial area will be popular. Sure we'll loose some concerts and the Warriors but it's the same reality for some golfers under your proposal.