General New Zealand Politics

If there was an election today, who would you vote for?

  • National

    Votes: 10 14.7%
  • Labour

    Votes: 25 36.8%
  • Greens

    Votes: 6 8.8%
  • NZ First

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • Act

    Votes: 14 20.6%
  • New Conservative Party

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • None of then

    Votes: 9 13.2%

  • Total voters
    68

matiunz

This year yet?
Contributor
Jul 15, 2013
8,956
Sydney
One of the better articles I have read in granny Herald lately. I won't be reading much more I have cancelled my subscription to the declining outfit.

Matthew Tukaki suggests two options, turning them back, and getting tough on policing.

Turning them back isn't an option, they are New Zealand citizens.

Tough policing won't be easy, the Police are really just an arm of the Transport department these days and have been for 30 years.

However something has to be done...by the Kiwibuild crowd?

Find it a bit rough in the case of the examples where the person has never set foot in NZ. Surely they are a product of their environment rather than their nationality
 

Mr Dragon

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 25, 2015
1,659
Last 10 years the minimum wage has gone from $13 to $20 and it’s made absolutely no difference. Yet people keep wanting more of the same. We all know the story about keeping doing the same thing and expecting different results… it’s the definition of insanity.

When will people learn that raising the minimum wage just results in a matching rise in inflation (over the longer term). Artificial wage growth is just that - artificial.

We need to widen the gap between after tax wages and costs to get real gains. Increased productivity driving real wage growth is the key along with a reduction in costs and taxes.
Expect to pay more taxes. I wouldn't mind if we got a world class service for our money, more like Pams are running everything on the cheap 🤣
 

kos

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 16, 2013
1,170
Wouldn't doubt any of that, where do Maori rate on the international IQ ladder, must be up near the top, the aussies would be lucky to scrape into the bottom eight
Oh mate thats a bit harsh I ,m a kiwi but have 4 Aussie kids.
Oh but wait.
995 more people in Sydney sent negative covid test results before their samples were even processed.
Australia a land of unrealised potential.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,878
Find it a bit rough in the case of the examples where the person has never set foot in NZ. Surely they are a product of their environment rather than their nationality
Yes they are a product of the Australian environment, especially Police corruption. However they still have the right to send them back here and we have no right to refuse them access.

That does not mean ignoring it is an option, it is not.
 

J_P

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 4, 2020
1,065
Yes they are a product of the Australian environment, especially Police corruption. However they still have the right to send them back here and we have no right to refuse them access.

That does not mean ignoring it is an option, it is not.
So what should be done? Everyone I talk to links this rise in gang violence to 501s and thinks something needs to be done. No one has the answer as legally we can't refuse these returnees?
 
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wizards rage

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 18, 2016
5,411
Tauranga
So what should be done? Everyone I talk to links this rise in gang violence to 501s and thinks something needs to be done. No one has the answer as legally we can't refuse these returnees?
Get tough on crime and gangs. A few thoughts:

- Nz is seen as a soft touch. While they can legally send them here, a tough government would put political pressure on to stop it - except our government is open about wanting refugees, openly criticised Australias detention centres, being kind, etc. Our governments soft refugee decisions snookered themselves in dealing with this in a political way.
- ambulance at the top of the cliff - get tough on drugs which cuts down on gang income - instead we have a pro drug government (eg referendums on legalising cannabis; approval by testing of drugs at events; etc)
- prioritise gangs for police. Target them, harass them, beef up police numbers and powers. Don’t ‘be kind’ to them - A political will to have a tough police force. Instead they focus on keeping the peace. See all the covid situations where they stand back and watch. Or ihumatao where they were going to push the illegal occupiers off but political intervention forced them to not uphold the law. Political influence sees police as non confrontational and prioritising traffic and covid borders.
- lock them away when they are a problem - longer sentences, tougher on crime - instead we have a stated goal of reducing prison populations, repealing 3 strikes, etc (and then they wonder why there’s more crime with more criminals on the street…)
- we have a victimhood mentality promoted and fostered within Maori - this turns people against society and feeds the gangs.

It’s all politically a result of left leaning ‘be kind’ politics. Be kind to the law abiding and the vulnerable in society. Our current politicians are just soft on crime and gangs and we are seeing the result.
 
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Mr Dragon

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 25, 2015
1,659
Get tough on crime and gangs. A few thoughts:

- Nz is seen as a soft touch. While they can legally send them here, a tough government would put political pressure on to stop it - except our government is open about wanting refugees, openly criticised Australias detention centres, being kind, etc. Our governments soft refugee decisions snookered themselves in dealing with this in a political way.
- ambulance at the top of the cliff - get tough on drugs which cuts down on gang income - instead we have a pro drug government (eg referendums on legalising cannabis; approval by testing of drugs at events; etc)
- prioritise gangs for police. Target them, harass them, beef up police numbers and powers. Don’t ‘be kind’ to them - A political will to have a tough police force. Instead they focus on keeping the peace. See all the covid situations where they stand back and watch. Or ihumatao where they were going to push the illegal occupiers off but political intervention forced them to not uphold the law. Political influence sees police as non confrontational and prioritising traffic and covid borders.
- lock them away when they are a problem - longer sentences, tougher on crime - instead we have a stated goal of reducing prison populations, repealing 3 strikes, etc (and then they wonder why there’s more crime with more criminals on the street…)
- we have a victimhood mentality promoted and fostered within Maori - this turns people against society and feeds the gangs.

It’s all politically a result of left leaning ‘be kind’ politics. Be kind to the law abiding and the vulnerable in society. Our current politicians are just soft on crime and gangs and we are seeing the result.
The days of personal responsibility are over, the days of shame on the family are over and funny enough used to be big in the brown culture when i was young, everyone was scared when dad got home 🤣 Not many Dads around these days, might be the problem!
 

john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
3,538
tauranga
The days of personal responsibility are over, the days of shame on the family are over and funny enough used to be big in the brown culture when i was young, everyone was scared when dad got home 🤣 Not many Dads around these days, might be the problem!
Not only gangs and crime but education also. Parents who don't know or care where the kids are or what they are doing.
This is not only a kiwi problem. Gangs are involved in countries worldwide
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,979
Higher than westerners, they are Asian after all.

I have had fierce discussions with white mates about this, however I believe it to be true.

Polynesians are Asian. There is no doubt about that.

Maori as you noted are a mixture of Asians from Taiwan, the indigenous Asians, before Asia was called Asia.

They are also descendant before this, from the Ainu indigenous people of Japan, who of course came like everyone from Africa.

So Maori are Asian through and through with add mixture from Micronesian groups....with dna from Papua New Guinea.

The people who ended up being called Maori, more recently came from Tahiti. This is all documented very clearly in the oral history of the Tainui people in a text called Nga Iwi o Tainui, this work was taken from the Tainui historian and Tohunga of that tribe and is endorsed by the Royal family of Tainui.

The story of Tainui begins in the pacific Islands and it is a detailed account of people and names of Islands and places that still exist to this day.

The indigenous Tahitian record of the people of Tainui tells exactly the same story.

Europeans ignored this obvious reality because it is oral not written...of course the dna bears all this out and NZ Scholars act like they have 'discovered' it.

Maori as many know travelled through the pacific and lived on most of the major Islands in their travels.

They established a colony on Easter Island, the Rapanui people, who have the exact same ancestor names at the people of Tainui but more importantly they speak Te Reo Maori.

That's right a Maori and an Easter Islander can converse freely because they are the same people.

Maori have add mixture in their dna from the pre Columbian period, so they went to America before Columbus, before the Vikings, and they took brides with them back to Polynesia.

Maori are very closely related to Samoans, Tongans, obviously Cook Islanders, Hawaiians and many many other Polynesia groups.


In this video the Easter Island chief names two of my ancestors which are on my Whakapapa.

I am a direct descendant of Hoturoa (captain of the Tainui Waka) and Hotunui (the name of the famous meeting house that is the centre piece at the Auckland War memorial museum carved by Tuhoe as a wedding gift to a Tainui chief and their Tuhoe princess.

These two men, my relations, the Easter Island chief explains, left their brother behind on Easter Island with a group to establish a colony. So the migration fleet that came here...also went to the furtherest Island in the pacific from the Polynesia chain to the east....then the same people sailed in the direction of Antarctica and discovered Aotearoa.

They were incredible navigators, the best of all in the history of the human race. Sailing from Easter Island to Aotearoa is a unreal level of confidence in your ability.

Bottom line, you cannot deny Maori colonised Rapanui and that those Stone Moai are the same as the Maori Pou Whenua (ancestral carved wooden posts).

No one at this time is interested in NZ society in knowing that Maori are the people of the amazing Easter island story because positive Maori stories are a threat to the racist narrative of lazy dumb criminals with a stone aged culture of no worth. In this video a Maori visits Easter Island and finds his relations and is able to speak with fluency in Te Reo Maori to the people of Rapanui Easter Island because we are the same people actually from the same family of the chiefs.

Whatever. Thanks to globalization Polynesians are beginning to come together and are realising the incredible legacy of astronomy, meteorology and navigational skill...and they have realised they worked out the world was round before anyone else.

 
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Worried2Death

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 6, 2016
3,875
No tough government can legally stop Australia from sending back 501s. I'm a kiwi to heart but we are Oz's little brother. We can't bully them around unfortunately even though we are a better county than them.
Getting tough on drugs is what the gangs need. They need them to stay illegal. I really didn't want to expose this stuff on here but i would like to give you guys an honest viewpoint. Maybe this may change your view point. I was on meth for years, shook hands with black power gang members when i went to score at times. Saw little kids in drug houses. Those little kids didn't have a chance at normal life.
From my pov they need to make all drugs legal. Send problem users to rehab not prison. I've had mates that had issues that went to prison and came out worse
Edit: I've been clean for years
I thought we should have at least legalised and licenced the marijuana industry, would have undercut one of the gang's major income streams, then we could have focused our resources on cleaning up the meth trade. P is too endemic now to do anything but make a dent in it while we're wasting our time policing a plant. Well done for beating the addiction bro, very dark place to be in, Kia kaha.
 
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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,979
I thought we should have at least legalised and licenced the marijuana industry, would have undercut one of the gang's major income streams, then we could have focused our resources on cleaning up the meth trade. P is too endemic now to do anything but make a dent in it while we're wasting our time time policing a plant. Well done for beating the addiction bro, very dark place to be in, Kia kaha.

I am a funny old stick. I actually would like to try pot before I die. But I will never break the law so...

And I do not want to fly overseas to try it. I have a vision of blasting Bob Marley as a New Zealand sunset sinks into the pacific while I click that lighter and take a deep drag....
 

Inruin

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
May 19, 2012
10,704
Auckland
I thought we should have at least legalised and licenced the marijuana industry, would have undercut one of the gang's major income streams, then we could have focused our resources on cleaning up the meth trade. P is too endemic now to do anything but make a dent in it while we're wasting our time time policing a plant. Well done for beating the addiction bro, very dark place to be in, Kia kaha.
Don't want to rehash the legalise pot debate but picking up on a couple of your points. I don't think police are actually spending much time on policing a plant unless it is part of organised crime. They are focused more on P but as you say it's too endemic. In terms of legalising and undercutting one of the gangs major income streams, I doubt it would have as much impact as some make out. Given the increased costs through store rent, wages, compliance costs, gst etc I would think that the cost of a legal amount vs the equavilant illegal amount would be at least twice as high (no pun intended)
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,878
OK bruce bruce you usually have all the answers so tell us what this something is.
The Police used to concentrate on catching criminals, then 30 years ago they got taken over by the Ministry of Transport (I am not joking) and their job became to earn money...with crime prevention a PR stunt on the side.

In saying that I don't mean to denigrate the cops at street level, it is the attitude from the top, which has got worse and more political as time has gone on.

Sure they have better surveillance techniques, and undercover guys, and proceeds of crime initiatives, but the real hard attitude to catching criminals has long gone, at the top levels anyway.

They are under resourced, which has lowered their expectations.

They are a peacetime army in the middle of a war.

In a war you fight hard, or lose, it is as simple as that.

They are losing.
 

Worried2Death

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 6, 2016
3,875
Don't want to rehash the legalise pot debate but picking up on a couple of your points. I don't think police are actually spending much time on policing a plant unless it is part of organised crime. They are focused more on P but as you say it's too endemic. In terms of legalising and undercutting one of the gangs major income streams, I doubt it would have as much impact as some make out. Given the increased costs through store rent, wages, compliance costs, gst etc I would think that the cost of a legal amount vs the equavilant illegal amount would be at least twice as high (no pun intended)
I think weed is still a significant income stream for gangs, as well as first point of contact for meth prospects. Courts and prisons are still spending resources on cultivation and dealing charges. I thought the gangs would have taken a big hit if we'd gone with the alternative proposals for casual stoners, but yeah I don't want to rehash all this again either, until the next referendum.

I voted against it last time, seems like a mistake now. I wouldn't mind a bag of gummies and a cone of ziggy stardust now, this feels like the longest off season ever. Sup could get himself a cart of Jamaica's best, might be good for his blood pressure, I was worried he was going to have a stroke when he saw Brian Tamaki's last sermon.
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,878
I believe this proves my point. It is a bloody disgrace, to BOTH governments.
A committed country cop complained above his bosses to the Commissioner about the meth issue in Kawerau.
The attitude should have already been with his bosses and worked down.

'Meth easier to buy than milk' / by Jared Savage​


Date14 Feb 2021BySavage, Jared, INNZNADescription
Details the work undertaken by detectives in Operation Notus which unseated Mongrel Mob president Frank Milosevic who was selling meth in Kawerau. Explains that Senior Constable Stu Turnbull appealed to the Police Commissioner for extra assistance to nail the Mob boss for his criminal activity. Comments on the poverty and unemployment in the town and decline in meth related crime as a result of this operation.
 
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