General New Zealand Election 2020

Who will you vote for in the 2020 election

  • National

    Votes: 18 23.1%
  • Labour

    Votes: 40 51.3%
  • Greens

    Votes: 9 11.5%
  • NZ First

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Act

    Votes: 3 3.8%
  • New Conservative Party

    Votes: 2 2.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 6 7.7%

  • Total voters
    78

Juju

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 9, 2012
1,653
Tauranga in An average suburb. $560 purchase price. Pretty run down but it’s a first home. They have both contributed 8% to KiwiSaver. She earns $22ph. Him about $30ish?

No family help but saved for years. Also did some weekend work for extra income.
Congratulations to them. But thats $200k under the median price for Tauranga with prices rising rapidly (same with deposits)

The figures in comparison to their ages, salaries and the size of the deposit don't stack up to me...
 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
3,275
Tauranga
Congratulations to them. But thats $200k under the median price for Tauranga with prices rising rapidly (same with deposits)

The figures in comparison to their ages, salaries and the size of the deposit don't stack up to me...
True story bro. As I said it’s a cheap entry level 2 bedroom place.

I’m her boss and have seen the place so I can guarantee most of the figures are true.
 
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Sledge

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 10, 2016
2,007
True story bro. As I said it’s a cheap entry level 2 bedroom place.

I’m her boss and have seen the place so I can guarantee most of the figures are true.
And yet my parents could buy in Auckland back in the 80s on one wage while mum took care of us. Dad didn’t work past 40 hours. I now rent in Auckland and both Me and my partner work on average 50 hours plus with emails ect and still can’t buy, fuck the boomers. The miserable pricks will lobby for the retirement age to go up to 70. They have had it so sweet for so long.
 

Miket12

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 20, 2012
9,203

Ashley Church: Around 40% of Kiwis rent so why are landlords being punished?​

COMMENT: Imagine a man sitting high up in a tree sawing off the branch on which he is sitting. Eventually his sawing will reach a tipping point and he and the branch will plunge to the ground.

I’ve just described the Government’s approach to the housing market. Since coming to power in 2017, Labour has presided over reforms which have either made no impact or have made it significantly worse.

Some of these reforms – such as the foreign buyer ban and the rollout of Kiwibuild - appear to have been based on a genuinely held belief, however misguided, that they would make a positive difference.

Sadly, this can’t be said of the Government’s rental market reforms, which in my opinion consist of a series of measures designed to tap into the deep-seated envy that exists in some parts of society towards Mum and Dad property investors. These measures include the ring-fencing of tax losses, the extension of the Brightline test from two years to five years and then to 10 years, a variety of inequitable reforms weighted towards tenants, the healthy homes legislation, and now, the removal of the ability to claim the cost of interest as a tax-deductible expense.

The response to this last measure has been negative, with many economists and commentators warning that it will lead to an exodus of landlords from the market and higher rents.

So how has the Government and the Finance Minister, Grant Robertson, responded to these warnings? By issuing his own warning that he will consider imposing rent controls if the predictions turn out to be correct (which they will). To be clear, New Zealand already has a form of rent control in place, with landlords already limited to one rent increase per year. What Robertson appears to be proposing is that the Government would set, not just the frequency, but also the level of any increase.

That threat should send a shudder down the spine of tenants and landlords alike. Why? Because rent controls have been shown to be ineffective in every jurisdiction in which they have been implemented. Canada, Germany, Spain, the UK and the US have all tried various forms of control with very similar results over time. An impressive body of research generally agrees that rent controls provide short-term relief to tenants but ultimately end up reducing quality and either pushing rents up further or creating a rental supply crisis – or both.

Even economists in left-leaning Sweden, warn against rent controls. One, Nobel laureate Gunnar Myrdal, has said that “rent control has in certain Western countries constituted, maybe, the worst example of poor planning by Governments lacking courage and vision”. And Swedish Professor Assar Lindbeck has said that “short of bombing, I know of no way to destroy a city that was more effective than rent control”. Likewise, Dr Gemma Burgess, from Cambridge University's Centre for Housing and Planning Research, is “dubious” that rent controls could help tenants without reducing “the stock of rental properties".

In New Zealand, the overwhelming bulk of rental accommodation is provided by the private sector. Exact numbers are patchy, but we know that there are probably 525,000 rentals in New Zealand, of which around 85,000 are owned by Housing New Zealand, local authorities and non-government organisations that provide social housing. The remainder – around 440,000 rental homes – are provided by the private sector, and the overwhelming majority of these are owned by mum and dad property investors who have, collectively, saved the country tens of billions of dollars over the past 40 years.

We also know that around 40% of Kiwis live in rental accommodation – and that this number has been consistent over several census periods despite the sharp rise in our overall population over the past couple of decades. So the demand for rental accommodation is increasing.

For these reasons, a responsible Government would be doing everything that it could to retain, and grow, private investment in the rental sector and introducing programs that make it as easy as possible for Kiwis to invest in this important sector. It would also mean avoiding initiatives which imposed significant new costs on landlords or which worsen the already precarious position associated with the cost of owning rental property.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
3,275
Tauranga
And yet my parents could buy in Auckland back in the 80s on one wage while mum took care of us. Dad didn’t work past 40 hours. I now rent in Auckland and both Me and my partner work on average 50 hours plus with emails ect and still can’t buy, fuck the boomers. The miserable pricks will lobby for the retirement age to go up to 70. They have had it so sweet for so long.
So could my parents! Big picture thinking. Back when we had a low population; 90% of people had a productive blue collar job; hardly anyone went to university or worked behind a desk and we were richer. Compliance was non existent so things got done. We lived off the back of the rural sector. We expanded our cities and the supply of houses exceeded demand as city fringe land was plentiful and had little value.

We’re living in an overpopulated world where we are trying to do more with less.
 

dean

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 13, 2016
1,096
And yet my parents could buy in Auckland back in the 80s on one wage while mum took care of us. Dad didn’t work past 40 hours. I now rent in Auckland and both Me and my partner work on average 50 hours plus with emails ect and still can’t buy, fuck the boomers. The miserable pricks will lobby for the retirement age to go up to 70. They have had it so sweet for so long.
Not the boomers fault. A number of things have changed economically and in society.
My first wife and I bought our first house in early 1982, $55k. We had a deposit of $24k and could only get finance from a solicitors nominee company at 21% and only for two years. The house was almost unlivable. I was a labourer , 23 years old, we saved everything, didn't drink, nothing extra, no furniture or TV. What I have noticed is that people don't consider buying a house or taking the tough budgeting on until much latter, often in their 30's. This allows for huge price inflation for the wasted years and saving habits are not started early enough.
Far too many people attend University now, incurring meaningless debt while they live as entitled children in many cases. The debt is wasted time and money unless that accelerates income once qualified. Too many of my generation think they have gifted children and they must have a degree, useless as many of them are. Meanwhile, NZ is a tradesmans paradise.
 

PullinTeeth

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 11, 2017
1,133
Not the boomers fault. A number of things have changed economically and in society.
My first wife and I bought our first house in early 1982, $55k. We had a deposit of $24k and could only get finance from a solicitors nominee company at 21% and only for two years. The house was almost unlivable. I was a labourer , 23 years old, we saved everything, didn't drink, nothing extra, no furniture or TV. What I have noticed is that people don't consider buying a house or taking the tough budgeting on until much latter, often in their 30's. This allows for huge price inflation for the wasted years and saving habits are not started early enough.
Far too many people attend University now, incurring meaningless debt while they live as entitled children in many cases. The debt is wasted time and money unless that accelerates income once qualified. Too many of my generation think they have gifted children and they must have a degree, useless as many of them are. Meanwhile, NZ is a tradesmans paradise.
Most of my stepsons crew (mid 20s) are in trades now. That after having it drummed into them by their college that university was the only option for them when they left if they wanted to be successful. Most went to university for 1-2 years and all say now it was a waste of money and time, if the college hadn't pushed it so hard then none of them would of went.
 

john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
2,008
tauranga
Not the boomers fault. A number of things have changed economically and in society.
My first wife and I bought our first house in early 1982, $55k. We had a deposit of $24k and could only get finance from a solicitors nominee company at 21% and only for two years. The house was almost unlivable. I was a labourer , 23 years old, we saved everything, didn't drink, nothing extra, no furniture or TV. What I have noticed is that people don't consider buying a house or taking the tough budgeting on until much latter, often in their 30's. This allows for huge price inflation for the wasted years and saving habits are not started early enough.
Far too many people attend University now, incurring meaningless debt while they live as entitled children in many cases. The debt is wasted time and money unless that accelerates income once qualified. Too many of my generation think they have gifted children and they must have a degree, useless as many of them are. Meanwhile, NZ is a tradesmans paradise.
Also these same kids expect an OE before anything else .A year or two tripping around overseas partying.I was sent straight to sea as soon as I turned 15.That was my farkin OE.But didnt do me any harm
 

Juju

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 9, 2012
1,653
Not the boomers fault. A number of things have changed economically and in society.
My first wife and I bought our first house in early 1982, $55k. We had a deposit of $24k and could only get finance from a solicitors nominee company at 21% and only for two years. The house was almost unlivable. I was a labourer , 23 years old, we saved everything, didn't drink, nothing extra, no furniture or TV. What I have noticed is that people don't consider buying a house or taking the tough budgeting on until much latter, often in their 30's. This allows for huge price inflation for the wasted years and saving habits are not started early enough.
Far too many people attend University now, incurring meaningless debt while they live as entitled children in many cases. The debt is wasted time and money unless that accelerates income once qualified. Too many of my generation think they have gifted children and they must have a degree, useless as many of them are. Meanwhile, NZ is a tradesmans paradise.
What's interesting to me is most of you can't / won't / are unable acknowledge that you all would not be in the situation you now find yourself in - if you were born 20/30 years later...

That the young people don't work hard enough or sacrifice enough...

And yet the average deposit went up $20k in January alone...
 
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Rick O'Shay

Warriors 1st Grader
May 1, 2013
3,895
New Plymouth
What's interesting to me is most of you can't / won't / are unable acknowledge that you all would not be in the situation you now find yourself in - if you were born 20/30 years later...
Hypothetical. There were still plenty around in my generation who pissed it all up against the wall despite the so called easy years.

There is still opportunity out there, housing doesn't have to be one of them.
 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
3,275
Tauranga
What's interesting to me is most of you can't / won't / are unable acknowledge that you all would not be in the situation you now find yourself in - if you were born 20/30 years later...

That the young people don't work hard enough or sacrifice enough...

And yet the average deposit went up $20k in January alone...
I’m not a boomer - 44.

I think it’s terrible how things are now, especially as I have teenagers. But it’s a complex systemic problem that with capitalism, population growth, globalisation, etc, it will only get worse.
 
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Juju

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 9, 2012
1,653
I’m not a boomer - 44.

I think it’s terrible how things are now, especially as I have teenagers. But it’s a complex systemic problem that with capitalism, population growth, globalisation, etc, it will only get worse.
Of course... I was merely stating buying your first home was much easier. It seems there is a real unwillingness for people to admit that... I think that creates a fair bit of tension around the issue.
 

Rick O'Shay

Warriors 1st Grader
May 1, 2013
3,895
New Plymouth
Of course... I was merely stating buying your first home was much easier. It seems there is a real unwillingness for people to admit that... I think that creates a fair bit of tension around the issue.
Certainly true in the wage to cost ratio and the market wasn't as inflated as now, so yes it's harder and more difficult to get onto the property ladder.

I still believe the notion of the 1/4 Acre Pavlova paradise is a big part of the problem. Ingrained in our DNA . Back in the 1975 when we bought our first house, the Govt had a much larger share of the rental market as well which kept rents relatively low.
That along with many other things changed over the years and definitely not for the better
 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
3,275
Tauranga
What's interesting to me is most of you can't / won't / are unable acknowledge that you all would not be in the situation you now find yourself in - if you were born 20/30 years later...

That the young people don't work hard enough or sacrifice enough...

And yet the average deposit went up $20k in January alone...
Serviceability is similar to when I first bought 20 years ago.

Year 2000 - $300k loan at 8% = $24,000pa

Year 2021 - $1,000,000 loan at 2.5% = $25,000pa

The deposit is the killer. When I first bought you could buy with a 5% deposit. Now you need hundreds of thousands for the deposit. The reserve bank could change this overnight if they wanted to make houses affordable. Instead they choose to lock first home buyers out and try to tax rental providers increasing tenants costs???
 
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Juju

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 9, 2012
1,653
Serviceability is similar to when I first bought 20 years ago.

Year 2000 - $300k loan at 8% = $24,000pa

Year 2021 - $1,000,000 loan at 2.5% = $25,000pa

The deposit is the killer. When I first bought you could buy with a 5% deposit. Now you need hundreds of thousands for the deposit. The reserve bank could change this overnight if they wanted to make houses affordable. Instead they choose to lock first home buyers out and try to tax rental providers increasing tenants costs???
Its a scary thought on a whole underclass (even low 6 figure households) who will never be able to save a deposit while renting...
 

dean

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 13, 2016
1,096
What's interesting to me is most of you can't / won't / are unable acknowledge that you all would not be in the situation you now find yourself in - if you were born 20/30 years later...

That the young people don't work hard enough or sacrifice enough...

And yet the average deposit went up $20k in January alone...
A lot of things changed. Even back in my day, most of my mates , non went to University, saw home ownership as a stepping stone to growing up. Usually this went in tandem with getting married at an unnaturally young age. Saving was expected, losers spent all their wages.
I left home at 16 so didn't get cheap board etc. The big difference now is that the saving doesn't start till much later for most if at all. Consumerism, student debt, OE's, all make home ownership harder. The mind set is not the same.
Also, I appreciate that rents now make saving so much harder as that is the killer overhead.
 

Miket12

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 20, 2012
9,203
Another thing to consider is that Auckland used to be made up of dozens of Borough Councils which were eventually merged into the seven city/rural councils and then finally into the super city.

After World War Two, the governments encouraged population expansion and the small councils competed with each other to attract new people to their areas by developing sections themselves.... go back through the property titles and you’ll find that for a lot of sections particular in the outer suburbs, the original developer was actually the local council.

Land was cheaper to develop because most of the time, they only had sanitary pipes (although a lot of older houses had septic tanks) and power.

Governments actively encouraged building of new homes with cheap loans. Mortgages were only based on the higher owning income and not both incomes. The increases in houses pretty much kept in line with the rate of inflation.

Then, in the 1970’s, immigration was opened up. Supply of building products couldn’t keep up, builders were in short supply and within the space of three years, house values increased by 60%. To encourage growth, land development was passed over from the councils to private developers and smaller sections and building of flats/townhouses was encouraged.

The 1973 oil crisis fueled further inflation, a reduction in immigration and house prices fell by 40% until the ‘80’s.

In the early 90’s, the National government did one of the most stupid things a government had ever done and allowed non treated timber to be used within the construction industry.

And a little know architectural designer came back from the States and went to work for a division of Fletchers in East Auckland. He designed the first of the Mediterranean styled plaster houses using a new product called Harditex which his company used as a showhome. What he designed was so different from what we were used to, the house then started to appear in housing magazines and everyone wanted one. Yes, there had been Mediterranean/Spanish styled houses here before but they were masonry or bricks that were plastered over or thick stucco on netting and board substrates.

From then until 2002, prices rose again inline with inflation when the government under Clark changed the Resource Management Act to allow Councils to significantly charge more for developing property. All of a sudden, land prices and development costs rose sharply.

Around the same time, the building industry in NZ went into a slump and a lot of our builders and tradies went to work in Oz. Most work on high rise buildings stopped and building companies in the commercial field instead started doing residential building where they had no experience.

The leaky homes issues were coming to the fore and construction costs skyrocketed after the introduction of cavity systems and insulation requirements including double glazing. Compliance cost and architectural fees have shot up because of the amount of information required to get a building consent these days.

People who had lost their money in the 1987 stock market crash and then with dot.com companies looked for a safer investment and found it in housing.

The GFC and last years COVID recession have led to historically low interest rates. To borrow money is cheap and the bank returns (even in term deposits) are rubbish, so people with either money in the bank or enough equity in their main house, are investing in housing.

Since we brought our first house, interest rates were generally between a low of 5% and a high of 12%. What I think is scary for new home buyers who have just got enough money as a deposit together is what happens to them if interest rates rise up to even 5% let alone 10%.

If you’re in Auckland and can even find a 80’s or 90’s Hardiplank special in Ranui or Manurewa or Papakura for say $800k and have got a 20% deposit, you’re borrowing $640k. Paying a mortgage at the money of 2% means you’re paying $12.8k in the first year in interest. But what happens when interest rates creep up for the next five years and you still owe $600k. If that interest rate hits 5%, you‘re paying $30k per year. If two more years latter and you still owe $550k and the rate hits 10%, you’re paying $55k just in interest. And none of that takes into account the money the bank would require you to pay back in principle each year.

Yes, your house has made a capital gain, but that doesn’t help you if you can’t afford to pay the mortgage to live there. And, if you do sell before the bank forecloses on you, you probably have destroyed your credit rating from missing payments and all the other properties have gone up the same.

Here‘s a graph showing the housing inflation from the 1960’s to 2014:

C85559F3-8399-4C66-9FC8-C10A36AA8EBC.jpeg

And here’s from 1994 to 2019:

FAC8BFB7-33C4-4D76-8994-A4A2D29B6954.jpeg
 
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