General New Zealand Election 2020

Who will you vote for in the 2020 election

  • National

    Votes: 18 24.3%
  • Labour

    Votes: 38 51.4%
  • Greens

    Votes: 9 12.2%
  • NZ First

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Act

    Votes: 3 4.1%
  • New Conservative Party

    Votes: 2 2.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 5.4%

  • Total voters
    74

mrblonde

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 14, 2012
3,651
Auckland
I've only recently started Kiwisaver because I have put my own contributions, so it's a little compulsory saving. I have no idea where my funds are invested and it's not something that rates on my moral compass. I suspect very few people no where their money is invested, including the PM. she probably has more pressing issues.

That's basically the issue.

My work email gets an occassional request from America about making sure all our raw materials aren't made from "blood minerals": Which are, so far as I can tell, minerals that are bought by companies from people who then take that money and fund violent campaigns in Africa somewhere. How the eff is a New Zealand company supposed to know? How the eff is a New Zealand company going to verify for itself the truth after getting the very predicatable answer of, if we were to ask our suppliers, "We cool, bro!"? How, even, are they to know?

Miket12, I get a regular update from my Kiwisaver provider, showing me the 0.24% of the total funds that have been invested that they've got invested in This Company, the 0.31% they've invested in That Company etc etc. All listed in very boring detail. They could be bullshitting for all I know. JA might well be funding something morally suss, but beyond asking her Kiwisaver provider, she can only take them on their word. Same as JC would.

Now, you don't want Simon Bridges knocking on your door and calling you "wokeish", do ya? :)
 

Miket12

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 20, 2012
8,969
Miket12, I get a regular update from my Kiwisaver provider, showing me the 0.24% of the total funds that have been invested that they've got invested in This Company, the 0.31% they've invested in That Company etc etc. All listed in very boring detail. They could be bullshitting for all I know. JA might well be funding something morally suss, but beyond asking her Kiwisaver provider, she can only take them on their word. Same as JC would.
But you don’t have the resources of the IRD or MFAT or Treasury or Parliamentary Services or the Prime Ministers office or Stats NZ or the Bureaucrats charged with investigating where ACC or NZ SuperFund invest or dozens of other trainspotters in government departments under you who could have a look at a list given to you from your KiwiSaver provider and check that off against known arms manufacturers.

But, I’m guessing you don’t see the hypocrisy of calling Air NZ in to a select committee to account for fixing some engines while, four months, after finding out three of the companies where your KiwiSaver invests on your behalf, and only asking MFAT to talk with ANZ only after a reporter asks what you‘ve done about it during the four months after you were made aware of it.
 

Rick O'Shay

Warriors 1st Grader
May 1, 2013
3,601
I use the Bang for your Buck method.

Raytheon, Grumman, General Dynamics etc are a better bet than blue chip bank shares. Conflict is good for business and there's plenty of it going on around the planet.

Now, about those ethics.
 
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Rizzah

Stop Being Shit
Contributor
Apr 18, 2012
3,989
Dunedin, NZ
But you don’t have the resources of the IRD or MFAT or Treasury or Parliamentary Services or the Prime Ministers office or Stats NZ or the Bureaucrats charged with investigating where ACC or NZ SuperFund invest or dozens of other trainspotters in government departments under you who could have a look at a list given to you from your KiwiSaver provider and check that off against known arms manufacturers.

But, I’m guessing you don’t see the hypocrisy of calling Air NZ in to a select committee to account for fixing some engines while, four months, after finding out three of the companies where your KiwiSaver invests on your behalf, and only asking MFAT to talk with ANZ only after a reporter asks what you‘ve done about it during the four months after you were made aware of it.
I don't think there is hypocrisy.
AirNZ's contract work will be governed by a multitude of factors around diplomatic relations and reputation for New Zealand.
JA's personal investment portfolio is really non of our business.
<edit> Unless it's illegal or interferes with her ability to do her job - I don't think this is the case here with a passive investment fund that looks like she hasn't really thought too much about.
Good on the reporter for picking it up, as JA and the other MPs will probably change their funds as a result. <edit>
 
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Inruin

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
May 19, 2012
8,866
Auckland
I don't think there is hypocrisy.
AirNZ's contract work will be governed by a multitude of factors around diplomatic relations and reputation for New Zealand.
JA's personal investment portfolio is really non of our business.
<edit> Unless it interferes with her ability to do her job - I don't think this is the case here, it's clearly a passive investment fund that she hasn't really thought too much about.
Good on the reporter for picking it up, as JA and the other MPs will probably change their funds as a result. <edit>
I think thats the bit you are missing. She was told months ago and hasn't changed (as well as others) Where other MPs were told at the same time and changed straight away.

In the normal course of events I couldn't give two shits what she invests her money in. And if she was only just informed then I would say who does know what their kiwisaver is invested in. But this isnt the case here. And thats were the hypocrisy that Miket12 Miket12 was talking about comes in I guess
 

Rizzah

Stop Being Shit
Contributor
Apr 18, 2012
3,989
Dunedin, NZ
I think thats the bit you are missing. She was told months ago and hasn't changed (as well as others) Where other MPs were told at the same time and changed straight away.

In the normal course of events I couldn't give two shits what she invests her money in. And if she was only just informed then I would say who does know what their kiwisaver is invested in. But this isnt the case here. And thats were the hypocrisy that Miket12 Miket12 was talking about comes in I guess
Haha, my bad - I didn't read Miket12 Miket12's reply properly :D
JA doesn't strike me as someone who is unethical by nature.
 
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dean

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 13, 2016
1,060
100% - we are heading to a situation fast - where a huge chunk of the population won't be able to buy a house / save a deposit without help from their parents.
It may be a good thing if it encourages young Kiwi's to compete starting with education, budgeting, hard work and setting goals etc. Many migrants arrive here with nothing and English as a second language and achieve way more than our own people.
 

Juju

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 9, 2012
1,582
It may be a good thing if it encourages young Kiwi's to compete starting with education, budgeting, hard work and setting goals etc. Many migrants arrive here with nothing and English as a second language and achieve way more than our own people.
My point wasn't really about young people being disciplined - more the model is shifting in a dramatic way where more and more people will be locked out without help from parents.

How can young people save a 20% deposit when properties in Auckland now average over a mill... will paying rent that is only skyrocketing.
 

dean

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 13, 2016
1,060
My point wasn't really about young people being disciplined - more the model is shifting in a dramatic way where more and more people will be locked out without help from parents.

How can young people save a 20% deposit when properties in Auckland now average over a mill... will paying rent that is only skyrocketing.
The Auckland market is out of reach to young people starting out in most cases. The way prices are I would be looking to live in one of the many towns or cities where there is work and cheaper housing. An increase of 2% in interest rates would halt prices in their tracks. Melbourne is often quoted as being a city of expensive housing but my son bought there a couple of years ago and it was miles cheaper than Auckland. He is a chippy working on wages, currently on $66 an hour including site allowance and loading for holiday pay, $47 a day travel allowance and overtime after 8 hours, union job off course. Why slave away in Auckland.
 

Miket12

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 20, 2012
8,969
My point wasn't really about young people being disciplined - more the model is shifting in a dramatic way where more and more people will be locked out without help from parents.

How can young people save a 20% deposit when properties in Auckland now average over a mill... will paying rent that is only skyrocketing.
Which is why the government is considering a shared equity scheme.

Generally they work that the government would provide money that would form part of the deposit, the purchaser what they have saved and the bank the rest in the form of a mortgage.

BTW, the government is the ones who benefit far more than the banks in these transactions. And, the higher the amount of housing inflation, the more money gets returned to the government when properties are sold so it‘s actually better for the government to allow steep increases in real estate values.

For example, if you need to borrow $300k from the government to purchase a $750k house, that means they are contributing 40% of the purchase price so they get paid back their $300k plus 40% of the capital gain when the house is sold.

If you kept the house long enough for it to double in value (historically every 7-10 years) and then sold it, you would owe the government a total of 600k (the 300k originally lent plus 300k share of their capital gain). If it went up by 2 x 1/2 times, you would owe the government a total of 750k at the time you sold it. If you owned it long enough for it to double in value then double again (20-25 years), then you sold it, you would owe the government a total of 1.2 mil.

Then consider this. If you borrowed 400k from the bank for that same 25 years as a mortgage, using the BNZ mortgage calculator, you would have paid the bank a total of $580 to borrow $400k while you would be paying the government between $650 to $1.2mil just to borrow $300k depending on the increases in house values.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
16,109
The Auckland market is out of reach to young people starting out in most cases. The way prices are I would be looking to live in one of the many towns or cities where there is work and cheaper housing. An increase of 2% in interest rates would halt prices in their tracks. Melbourne is often quoted as being a city of expensive housing but my son bought there a couple of years ago and it was miles cheaper than Auckland. He is a chippy working on wages, currently on $66 an hour including site allowance and loading for holiday pay, $47 a day travel allowance and overtime after 8 hours, union job off course. Why slave away in Auckland.
I think that is the case, why stay here. However I didn't realise Kiwis are second class citizens now. They pay full tax but get no benefits.

I was talking to a mate who has a house in Melbourne worth AUD1.3 mill. No ordinary house either. In NZ it would be well over NZD$3 million.

So add to that much higher wages, many can afford to pay for their own health and accident insurance.
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
16,109
Many migrants arrive here with nothing and English as a second language and achieve way more than our own people.
That is part of the story.

The Indians get here on family money, live on the smell of an oily rag, and become an investment for the extended family back home.

Many of the Chinese are the same.
 

Rizzah

Stop Being Shit
Contributor
Apr 18, 2012
3,989
Dunedin, NZ
The Auckland market is out of reach to young people starting out in most cases. The way prices are I would be looking to live in one of the many towns or cities where there is work and cheaper housing. An increase of 2% in interest rates would halt prices in their tracks. Melbourne is often quoted as being a city of expensive housing but my son bought there a couple of years ago and it was miles cheaper than Auckland. He is a chippy working on wages, currently on $66 an hour including site allowance and loading for holiday pay, $47 a day travel allowance and overtime after 8 hours, union job off course. Why slave away in Auckland.
Is that what we are really lacking, a strong unionised labour force?
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
16,109
My point wasn't really about young people being disciplined - more the model is shifting in a dramatic way where more and more people will be locked out without help from parents.
I will give dairy farming as an example.

Back when I was leaving school, I got the chance to be a dairy farm cadet. The pay and conditions were pure shite.

However because there was stuff all to spend my money on, or time to do it, I would be able to invest in dairy calves and slowly build up a herd. Then I would get a loan from the government Rural Bank to buy either a full herd, or a share in the herd.

In a few years I would have a full milking herd, without any debt on it. So I would be a full time share milker putting any spare cash towards a bigger herd.

Then I might employ a milker, or another sharemilker to milk that herd on another farm. Probably more likely back then the herd would be a deposit on my own small dairy farm.

Chances are I would be a fulltime farmer, on my own land, by the time I was 30.

I would also be a debt junkie. Dairy farmers are debt junkies.

Last I checked, about 20 years ago, That would now take the young cadet until he was 50 to do it...back then. Now it would be impossible, without help from the family.

So this housing issue is not just a city thing. The rural communities are feeling it as well.
 

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