General New Zealand Election 2020

Who will you vote for in the 2020 election

  • National

    Votes: 17 23.3%
  • Labour

    Votes: 38 52.1%
  • Greens

    Votes: 9 12.3%
  • NZ First

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Act

    Votes: 3 4.1%
  • New Conservative Party

    Votes: 2 2.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 5.5%

  • Total voters
    73

Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
1,329
News hub are running a story about the prisoners at waikeria. Apparently the prisoners, according to their families are willing to co operate only if Rawiri Waititi is present as they believe they will leave there in body bags without him. Apparently some of the people protesting are criminals Aussie have sent back. Seems extreme for them to think they will be killed. Seems an odd situation.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,707
News hub are running a story about the prisoners at waikeria. Apparently the prisoners, according to their families are willing to co operate only if Rawiri Waititi is present as they believe they will leave there in body bags without him. Apparently some of the people protesting are criminals Aussie have sent back. Seems extreme for them to think they will be killed. Seems an odd situation.

That sounds like Meth. Long term paranoia is a thing after ceasing use.

There were seventeen rioters. I have been in one, oddly with that exact number of people.

One bloke changed his mind and it sounds like he got a beating from the others for it, that is a bit of a fail. Now there will be little chance of whittling away at the others until you are left with the hardcore.

Never a good idea to commentate on a riot from your home while it is live, and also not a good idea to talk about tactical responses to riots over the interweb.

It is scary for the staff and it will be scary for some of the inmates involved, they might be putting on a good show, but I bet some of them wish they had not got dragged into it.

I heard (from the media not from Waikeria) that the inmates are on the roof and running out of steam, they have no food, and have been drinking dirty water out of a fire hose.

I have no issue with the Maori party leader getting involved, if he can take some of the heat out of it, all the better. Most in corrections management will be against the idea.

What I would object to, is the daft suggestion from some quarters that the minister of corrections Kelvin Davis front this riot.

That is asking for lots of riots. Dumb idea.

Good luck Mr Rawiri Waititi.
 
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Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
1,329
That sounds like Meth. Long term paranoia is a thing after ceasing use.

There were seventeen rioters. I have been in one, oddly with that exact number of people.

One bloke changed his mind and it sounds like he got a beating from the others for it, that is a bit of a fail. Now there will be little chance of whittling away at the others until you are left with the hardcore.

Never a good idea to commentate on a riot from your home while it is live, and also not a good idea to talk about tactical responses to riots over the interweb.

It is scary for the staff and it will be scary for some of the inmates involved, they might be putting on a good show, but I bet some of them wish they had not got dragged into it.

I heard (from the media not from Waikeria) that the inmates are on the roof and running out of steam, they have no food, and have been drinking dirty water out of a fire hose.

I have no issue with the Maori party leader getting involved, if he can take some of the heat out of it, all the better. Most in corrections management will be against the idea.

What I would object to, is the daft suggestion from some quarters that the minister of corrections Kelvin Davis front this riot.

That is asking for lots of riots. Dumb idea.

Good luck Mr Rawiri Waititi.
They had apparently lit another fire in the place last night and sounds coming out of the building indicated the building is probably now structurally unsafe. Sounds like a lot might be to do with being incarcerated in such a derelict building.
 
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wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
2,770
Tauranga
They had apparently lit another fire in the place last night and sounds coming out of the building indicated the building is probably now structurally unsafe. Sounds like a lot might be to do with being incarcerated in such a derelict building.
They heard beneficiaries and homeless people were being put up in hotels and have decided that keeping them in rundown prisons was against the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi.
 
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Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
1,329
What I would object to, is the daft suggestion from some quarters that the minister of corrections Kelvin Davis front this riot.
Amnesty international has come out and said Davis needs to front up and the Maori council are saying politicians need to stop grandstanding. I agree with you, it sets a dangerous precedent if Davis has to go running every time prisoners decide to protest, more so if prisoners decide to protest in a destructive manner.
 

Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
1,329
They heard beneficiaries and homeless people were being put up in hotels and have decided that keeping them in rundown prisons was against the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi.
Is that for real? Are these actual criminals or people Aussie have sent back with dodgy backgrounds?
 
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Rizzah

Stop Being Shit
Contributor
Apr 18, 2012
3,768
Dunedin, NZ
Sounds like the prison should have been shutdown a long time ago.

From the ombudsman report Aug 2020
Most men in the high security complex (HSC) were double-bunked in cells originally designed for one, and living conditions were poor.
The HSC environment is not fit for purpose and is impacting adversely on the treatment of prisoners, presenting the Prison’s leadership team with significant challenges.
 
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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,707
Has Kelvin Davis even fronted to media about this? Surely as Corrections Minister he should be at least doing that?
I hope he doesn't and not for the sake of arguing with you.

Anything he says publicly runs a very real risk of inflaming the situation on the ground.

Prisoners are unlikely to warm to to speech from the minister in charge of their incarceration.

These riots have some similar dynamics to hostage scenarios, in that you should assume not every prisoner is acting of their own volition, often times there are guys co opted into joining, and more often than not the staff will know who they are based on their release date, their general behaviour prior to the riot and who moves in their sphere and is the King Pin of their block.

Already one half hearted guy has been beaten. The priority now has to be to get the others out safely.

The only time Ministers talk to media in these situations is when they want to manipulate the rioters or the terrorists. I probably shouldn't be saying that, but it is commonly known if you look at incidents around the world.

I would say bro, that since the prisoners do not want to hear from Kelvin Davis anyway that the safest choice is for him to keep his mouth shut.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,707
Sounds like the prison should have been shutdown a long time ago.

From the ombudsman report Aug 2020


Our systems need complete overhaul. The whole model has to be thrown out and we need to seriously adopt the healthy prisons models in places like the Netherlands and Scandinavia.
 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
2,770
Tauranga
Our systems need complete overhaul. The whole model has to be thrown out and we need to seriously adopt the healthy prisons models in places like the Netherlands and Scandinavia.
Scandinavia has a different demographic to here and different attitudes. We have so many problems with violence, gangs and alcohol, etc that they don’t have, that our incarceration rates are so much higher. We have to resort to quantity management not quality management.
 

Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
1,329
Our systems need complete overhaul. The whole model has to be thrown out and we need to seriously adopt the healthy prisons models in places like the Netherlands and Scandinavia.
National had committed to building a mega prison but the current government scrapped it. I think we need new infrastructure but I don’t like the idea of low and high security prisoners housed together. Hard to know where all the money will come from when our hospitals are also in poor condition amongst many other buildings.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,707
Scandinavia has a different demographic to here and different attitudes. We have so many problems with violence, gangs and alcohol, etc that they don’t have, that our incarceration rates are so much higher. We have to resort to quantity management not quality management.
Scandinavia is a different demographic, because systems create demographics in the first instance.

New Zealand is operating on a Victorian colonial model.

Colonisation.

If you think clinging to that is the future, then we are incapable of re imagining how we make prisoners, and how we re model them once they are created.

Scandinavia is just smarter. Not DNA superior.

NZ is locked in to a centuries old model of how to keep the fringes of society suppressed through a punishment model rather than an improvement and opportunities model.

This is like the Covid argument in reverse and why other countries cannot replicate our world excellence on their soil because of their different dynamics.

It is bullshit.

How about we commit to every man who enters prison, should be able to read and write when they leave and have some plan to reintegrate to society rather than the current plan...which is no plan.

The selfish reason I am passionate about this issue is these guys are living next door to you, and your kids are playing with their kids.

Wake up NZ., we are playing a dangerous game with a very ugly futiure for all of us.
 
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snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 12, 2013
8,817
National had committed to building a mega prison but the current government scrapped it. I think we need new infrastructure but I don’t like the idea of low and high security prisoners housed together. Hard to know where all the money will come from when our hospitals are also in poor condition amongst many other buildings.
Kelvin Davis spoke a lot about improving the prison system. No more two to a cell etc, 9 years of neglect etc. They need to stop the 9 years of neglect as a lot of our infrastructure has been neglected for a lot longer than that. He now has an incident which highlights all of the things he said he was fixing.

Has Kelvin Davis even fronted to media about this? Surely as Corrections Minister he should be at least doing that?
He said he wasn't going to say anything until its all resolved. Although I get part of that and not inflaming the situation as the minister he does have a big part to play in the situation.

During the lockdowns when the billion dollar tourism industry collapsed and all of the people wanting answers on their businesses and how they will get tourists back and when or what rescue packages they might get for their industry they didn't hear anything from the tourism minister again Kelvin Davis. Not sure if he likes to go mountain biking or not.
 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
2,770
Tauranga
Scandinavia is a different demographic, because systems create demographics in the first instance.

New Zealand is operating on a Victorian colonial model.

Colonisation.

If you think clinging to that is the future, then we are incapable of re imagining how we make prisoners, and how we re model them once they are created.

Scandinavia is just smarter. Not DNA superior.

NZ is locked in to a centuries old model of how to keep the fringes of society suppressed through a punishment model rather than an improvement and opportunities model.

This is like the Covid argument in reverse and why other countries cannot replicate our world excellence on their soil because of their different dynamics.

It is bullshit.

How about we commit to every man who enters prison, should be able to read and write when they leave and have some plan to reintegrate to society rather than the current plan...which is no plan.

The selfish reason I am passionate about this issue is these guys are living next door to you, and your kids are playing with their kids.

Wake up NZ., we are playing a dangerous game with a very ugly futiure for all of us.
I agree we need to do things better but our prison is a reflection of our society. Suicide, poverty, homeless, child violence, etc. Our statistics are terrible.

I share the concerns about those people living amongst us in our community. I share your thoughts about literacy, etc and creating better people.
 
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Rizzah

Stop Being Shit
Contributor
Apr 18, 2012
3,768
Dunedin, NZ
Our drinking water in prison is brown. We have used our towels for three straight weeks now. Some of us have not had our bedding changed in five months. We have not received clean uniforms to wear for three months – we wear the samer dirty clothes day in and day out. We have to wash our clothes in our dirty shower water and dry them on the concrete floor. We have no toilet seats: we eat our kai out of paper bags right next to our open, shared toilets.
 
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Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
1,329
Kelvin Davis spoke a lot about improving the prison system. No more two to a cell etc, 9 years of neglect etc. They need to stop the 9 years of neglect as a lot of our infrastructure has been neglected for a lot longer than that. He now has an incident which highlights all of the things he said he was fixing.
I think a good time to have a look into prison culture, conditions and how they can be altered for better outcomes was when the serco scandal broke. An article on news hub had an ex prisoner today claiming the conditions aren’t as bad as what’s being reported and the real problem is the gang members sent here from Aussie. Gang members were also the issue at the time of the serco story making inmates fight, coupled with an agency that seemingly lost control. I’m sure the conditions are horrific, perhaps not to the level the ex inmate has endured. I’m not claiming to have any answer on what needs to be done but crime needs to be punished as the victim deserves this. I can see a scenario for not throwing away the key for prisoners but investing in their future of incarceration to make them functioning members of society. There will always be those that are lost causes.
 

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