Manu Vatuvei

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Lego_Man

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Manu lost me yesterday.

The Ferguson try resulted from him first handing over possession inside our half with an error. Then in the ensuing set he charges up to try and take out Berrigan, limply falls off him, the resulting numbers allowing Berrigan to feed Ferguson for the try.

I dont believe he has value as a winger anymore, he has become something of a liability. He may be of some use as an impact T-Rex but again his hands will be his downfall, as you need to be able to hold onto the pill in traffic.

We need to begin the quest for a new beast, either looking in our junior ranks or further afield. Manu's future may lie in the ESL.
 
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Spence

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I personally think Manu is a winger or nothing - the T-Rex analogies are based on what, they're both big wingers with cool nicknames? I don't think the comparisons are fair, nor warranted. I would still personally choose him in my starting line up:

1. Locke
2. Tupou
3. Inu
4. Hurrell/Brown
5. Vatuvei

I hated on Brown last season, but I don't think he was really that poor there thinking back. It would also allow for Mateo to play more minutes and Taylor to keep a spot in the team when Luck returns. I would like to think Hurrell would be a solid choice, but he's disappointed me thus far. He can offer far more than the one-trick-pony tripe he's served up so far - he's a better player than that. I'm not sure if he's just adjusting, or what have you, but he can (and needs to) offer more than just hit ups. If he comes on for 30 minutes in the 17 jersey, that's fine - but I want to see his deft (loosely used on my behalf) passing and offloading game if he wants to continue to be a centre. I was happy enough with his defense, however.

I think Tupou is alright - I realise that this isn't the question in the thread, but I thought I'd take a creative licence - he makes good metres up the middle and I don't think he's overly error-prone (in terms of handling or defence). Obviously not a superstar, but holds up his own end. I think Ropati has a future at the Warriors, but he's off the pace at the moment, let him refind his form in the Vulcans. Henry definitely has to go - nothing against him, he hasn't let us down as such, but Mannering, Henry and Tupou standing next to each other is worse that the Mannering/Lillyman/Luck back row we had - there is absolutely no attacking threat out there.

Sorry, I just realised I haven't really talked about Manu. That tackle on Berrigan was unforgivable, terrible, terrible form on Manu's behalf. I was actually applauding him at first, until I realised he didn't make the tackle. I think Manu has a place in the team - but he definitely isn't irreplaceable as he was a few years ago. I would like to see a full season from him, then I will decide whether he has a future at the Warriors. I don't think he is a player that you can judge off a few games (whether they're good performances or bad performances). To drop him we need a replacement. Inu is obviously one, but I think centres is a more pressing issue than wing currently. Willie Peace is decent, as is Collier, but I don't think they're NRL quality. What about Ropati on the wing? I think he could do an okay job, especially after seeing how brilliant he was at fullback. Omar is another option, I guess, but I'd want him to play a year of wing first, before chucking him in the NRL.
 
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Lego_Man

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Well the other thing with our new owners opening their wallets, is that we have the capactiy to get in the player market and buy anyone. Though i'm not sure our joint is the most attractive at the moment.
 
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ToiletDuck

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That Berrigan tackle was awful. He didn't need to come in like that, and if you do, make sure you get the man. Don't let him step out of your weak grasp to set up the winger where you should have been defending.

The T-Rex comparison is basically a result of them being of similar size and having both spent on the wing. That's really it. I wouldn't back Manu to make 25 tackles a game, and to still be effective in attack. Nor do I think he's capable enough with his ball skills for a slot on the backrow.

I guess the problem is, we have no replacements. I would still drop Tupou before I dropped Manu, but who would you replace them with? Inu? As far as Inu is concerned, if he can't get a run after this start to the season, he may as well sign for the Sharks or some other loser club.

Benry and Ropo need to go, though again, who are the obvious replacements? Hurrell has just sort of faded with half talk of injury/concussion and now he's turning out for the Vulcans. So it's either use a backrower or stick with what we have.

On another note I thought the Fish was better yesterday.
 
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Lego_Man

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Yeah i dont get the NZW hate on the Fish. His positional play is definitely nowhere near Locke's, but he does some clever things and is showing good hands and general awareness currently. And he does look fairly threatening with ball in hand, though still short of what he's eventually capable of.

Based on what he's shown so far with limited opportunities, i would definitely let him show his wares on the wing.
 
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ToiletDuck

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Well yeah I can't see how he'd be worse than Tupou is positionally. He had a couple of awful moments yesterday too.
 
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Spence

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Yep, I am definitely interested in seeing more of the Fish. Locke is still my #1 custodian though.
 
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I think tht Fish would develop better on the wing better than Locke did, better in terms of raw ability, hopefully gets found out as much as our other wings do.

In terms of centres I would like to see Hurrel there, along with Inu. Hurrel can be a future star in the NRL, Inu is a freak athlete with positives and negatives.
 
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ToiletDuck

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I think tht Fish would develop better on the wing better than Locke did, better in terms of raw ability, hopefully gets found out as much as our other wings do.

In terms of centres I would like to see Hurrel there, along with Inu. Hurrel can be a future star in the NRL, Inu is a freak athlete with positives and negatives.

Well I think Fish either needs to go back to the drawing board in terms of his basic positional play, attitude and overall defense if he's ever going to succeed at fullback. This being unlikely, he may be forced to have a shot on the wing or go elsewhere. He played some wing during the trials. Given we're not drowning in NRL quality wingers at the club, I can't see any reason we shouldn't start working towards having him as another option in that position.
 
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JonB

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Well I think Fish either needs to go back to the drawing board in terms of his basic positional play, attitude and overall defense if he's ever going to succeed at fullback. This being unlikely, he may be forced to have a shot on the wing or go elsewhere. He played some wing during the trials. Given we're not drowning in NRL quality wingers at the club, I can't see any reason we shouldn't start working towards having him as another option in that position.

I agree, there are other options at fullback as well, Inu and Ropo. Neither is on Lockes level but can do a job there, heck I think Tupou might even be a better option than Fish there purely based on his attitude and desire ot be a better player.
 
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Danpatmac

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I actually think the amount of fappage about Fish has got into his bones and he has been stunted in his development by having the adoration.

Perhaps he would be better at another club where he is just another player, being forced to work for his chance as opposed to the almost 'inevitable' superstardom he has been 'promised' at the warriors?
 
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Raurimu Massive

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I think the clock's ticking on Manu's time on the wing for sure. I don't see that as any sort of slur on him at all, it's just a matter of fact that big guy like Manu won't be able to keep on competing on the wing as he gets older. Wiki had to move from centre to the forwards and went on to have a legendary career; I see no reason why Manu can't do the same. A few years ago I think he could have made the move into centre quite successfully, but I think he might have lost a bit of zip for that now; I'd prefer someone a tad lighter on their feet for that role.

I have no worries about his handling errors if he moved into the front row because his approach to the ball carry would be totally different - tighter position, tighter ball carry. In fact I don't think being on the wing is doing his error rate any favours at all - as the Ozzy commentary team for the test said, he so often beat a couple of defenders that he ends up with two or three guys having to cut him down from behind and slamming into the muscles of his legs. Harder to brace yourself for impact in a tackle when it's coming from behind, and that constant impact on the legs is taking its toll physically. Hamstring injuries will rob a big man of his speed and acceleration without fail, and even when they're healed they can often ping you again when you really try to overdo things. A sudden change of direction or an attempted burst of speed can reinujure Manu way too easily, and his role on the wing will demand that - his approach to the game will demand that with every run.

I don't understand the passionate outcry by many over calls for Manu to finish his time on the wing; I'd rather he moved into the forwards than see one of the Warriors' greatest legend's career cut short by injury.
 
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facefacts

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Completely agree, people seem to think moving Manu to the pack will shorten his career somehow, I for one, think it will lengthen his years in the game considerably.
 
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22 BEAST

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When we have a fully fit squad would we have room for The Beast in the pack?

I personally don't mind where he plays as long as hes playing, he brings something special to the team.

Might be a bit one eyed though seeing as hes my favourite player.
 
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a.c.e

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When he does move to the pack, theres Wiki to give him some pointers.
 
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Blain

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Probably not this year 22 Beast, though with Brown and luck leaving he would slot in on the bench nicely I reckon.

Lillyman
Friend
Matulino
Mannering
Mateo
Taylor

Package
Rapira
Rapira/Henry
Manu

Would be a far better impact player than Ta'ai imo.
 
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Jordan G

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Next season Taylor will replace Luck, Henry will replace Brown, Hurrell to the centres. At least that's what it looks like to me.

For me we need real speed out on the flanks, but the more I see Fish in first grade the more I'd rather keep Omar/Locke over him. His positional play is poor, but his attitude and inability to put his body on the line really bothers me.

As for Manu, I don't see him being a winger much longer. He's lost his acceleration rather than top end speed, but those first few steps are crucial for a winger. Would like to see how he goes lining up the isolated halves rather than charging head first into 3 waiting forwards.
 
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facefacts

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Probably not this year 22 Beast, though with Brown and luck leaving he would slot in on the bench nicely I reckon.

Lillyman
Friend
Matulino
Mannering
Mateo
Taylor

Package
Rapira
Rapira/Henry
Manu

Would be a far better impact player than Ta'ai imo.

Thats a great lookin pack right there Blain.
 
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AttilaTheGorilla

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I'm pretty sure if Manu is ever moved to the forwards, after a few games, there will be one question on everyone's minds: Why the #$%@ didn't we do this sooner?
 
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Jesbass

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Completely agree, people seem to think moving Manu to the pack will shorten his career somehow, I for one, think it will lengthen his years in the game considerably.
Unrelated to the thread, but welcome aboard! :)
 
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