General Manu Vatuvei story - The Facts

Iafeta_old

Guest
As per warriors.co.nz, Warren Smith in particular, a penny for your thoughts?

Congratulations to the club to finally putting a response together. If Smith showed any integrity to his job as an impartial commentator he would consider the below mentioned facts. Again in the Cowboys-Dragons commentary he used Manu Vatuvei as an adjective to describe a howler from Ty Williams. Shouldn't that realistically be a Matt Bowen or Shaun Kenny Dowell?

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Giant Vodafone Warriors winger Manu Vatuvei has been a media magnet yet again this week, which is now becoming a regular occurrence.
And the big man obliges whenever the interview requests come in (both in New Zealand and Australia), well aware what they're likely to focus on but happy to answer candidly just the same.
This week it was cover treatment in the Big League magazine with a strapline that leaps out at the reader.
It didn't exactly represent the true facts or indeed what the man himself said. But it was there: Manu Vatuvei - Dropped-ball 'king' taunts his critics: Catch me if you can!
It takes a bit of a serach to find the story relating to the cover. It's towards the back of the magazine with another provocative headline: I'll make you pay. Journalistic licence at work again. Nowhere does Vatuvei utter such comments and nor would he. That's not his style.
The feature by Ben Blaschke reads well, Vatuvei with plenty of comments about what he's striving to do, how he handles a setback and so on. Also included are some supportive - and questioning - comments by coach Ivan Cleary.
What is lacking is some nitty gritty detail. If Vatuvei has issues with errors, how do other players compare?
Maybe that's not included because the facts patently don't match up with the claims.
He's called the 'dropped-ball king'. That must mean he's at the top of the list - right? No, as it turns out, not that anyone else rates a mention, not even Hazem El Masri who made six - yes, six - errors in the Bulldogs' 12-40 loss to the Sydney Roosters.
After the first four rounds of this year's competition the list for most handling errors reads this way:

13 - Shaun Kenny-Dowall (Sydney Roosters)
11 - Ben Pomeroy (Cronulla)
10 - Brett Kearney (Cronulla), Manu Vatuvei (Vodafone Warriors)
9 - Hazem El Masri (Bulldogs), Daniel Holdsworth (Bulldogs), Michael Jennings (Penrith), Anthony Minichiello (Sydney Roosters), Matt Orford (Manly)
8 - Matt Bowen (North Queensland)

The first nine had played four matches, Bowen only three for his eight errors.
So then, Vatuvei must have been the category leader in 2007? Well, no again. Here's the list:

42 - Matt Bowen (North Queensland), 27 games
39 - Billy Slater (Melbourne), 23 games
38 - Kurt Gidley (Newcastle), 20 games
35 - Todd Carney (Canberra), 17 games
35 - Josh Morris (St George Illawarra), 23 games
34 - Wade McKinnon (Vodafone Warriors), 22 games
32 - Eric Grothe (Parramatta), 23 games
32 - Anthony Watmough (Manly), 26 games
31 - Krisnan Inu (Parramatta), 20 games
31 - Jarryd Hayne (Parramatta), 25 games
31 - Manu Vatuvei (Vodafone Warriors), 23 games

Food for thought? It should be.



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My response, good figures indeed, what I would be interested in though is also a performance indicator on tries per player error out of that list. I think Manu's errors are often made to look worse that we don't always respond as well as we make out to those errors.
 

Skinny_Ravs82

Guest
His mistakes are always singled out, and sometimes I can't help but wonder why. The commentators love to highlight his errors and they are just waiting for him to do something so they can have their usual mocking go at him. Certainly those stats highlight others players have similar problems in games; but I guess they aren't as magnificently focussed on
 

2big2strong_old

Guest
good statistics, but what's not mentioned is -from how many touches-, 8 of the players in that bottom list of 11 touch the ball probably up to triple or quadruple what Manu does. When you think Matt Bowen, Todd Carney, Choc Watmough etc are in almost every play, these stats don't tell the whole story. Still I really admire Manu's attitude towards the constant media focus. He hasn't once fired up and told anyone to shut up. I would've 30 times by now, I wouldn't even want to take an interview by now cause i know what it'd be about. He's showing he might make mistakes but he knows how to carry himself, well done.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
I don't know if that would necessarily be true 2b2s, at least not on all those players (yes definitely to some of the fullbacks in particular though). Manu doesn't go missing, he makes a load of metres hitting the ball up. I'd think his workrate was far superior to Pommeroy, El Masri, Kenny-Dowall, Josh Morris, possibly even Jarryd Hayne and Krisnan Inu. Parramatta use Grothe a lot to start a set, and not necessarily Hayne and Inu who are freed up for the more 'finesse' type plays, I think likewise Manu Vatuvei as far as wingers go gets involved to a very high degree of plays.

Also, on those stats for last year, I think Manu missed 1 game? Some of those players would have missed a few more. It highlights there still is a definite weakeness, given how crucial some of those errors tend to be, but I think it's more highlighted when they start they tend to flow, but in between times he's very good.

Interesting comparison anyhow.
 

EnterFien_old

Guest
The main issue here is the types of errors being made.
I can pretty much say with 99% confidence that most of Bowen, Slater, Carney & co mistakes were not park footy error. i.e simple drop ball off a hit up, or a number of dropped bombs.
In saying that Vatuvei may give away 1 or 2 tries but he definately creates or score 1 or 2 himself.
He only gets singled out because his mistakes are usually mistakes not even a 12yr old would make.
 

Iafeta_old

Guest
I'm not so sure of that mate, Bowen's been known to have a lot of air swings with bombs, Shaun Kenny Dowall couldn't catch a bomb to save himself, and Hazem El-Masri should be bombed from here to eternity. I remember a game v the Bulldogs that we lost in extra time over in Sydney where we went 18-0 purely on the back of bombing Hazem El-Masri.
 

EnterFien_old

Guest
Yeah most of that I am aware of but I don't see El Masri regularly hitting the ball up and losing the ball.

The only one that makes as many stupid mistakes as Manu is Shaun Kenny Dowell. Matty Bowen i would agree with if it was 2 or so year ago but i have to disagree now because over the last few years he has been solid at the back.
 

J_Hallow_old

Guest
Yeah most of that I am aware of but I don't see El Masri regularly hitting the ball up and losing the ball.

The only one that makes as many stupid mistakes as Manu is Shaun Kenny Dowell. Matty Bowen i would agree with if it was 2 or so year ago but i have to disagree now because over the last few years he has been solid at the back.

i dont think he is. too many times has bowen let the ball bounce or just dropped it cold.
 

Mone_old

Guest
Yeah Bowens not good under the high ball but I agree some of the errors Manu makes are hard to believe, El Masri came up but you would go a while to see him drop a kick off or uncontested bomb or a regulation 5th tackle kick or Bowen for that matter.
The only person I think makes errors of Manus type would be Grothe.
I cant see Manu ever getting better in regard to his hands but if he keeps coming up with tries and solid runs he will still be someone you would rather have running the same direction as you.
 

Mone_old

Guest
Yes but that gets negated when you consider he was in 2007.

Top try scorer 22
Top linebreaker 32
And top tacklebreaker 220 - nearly 50 more than anyone else.

So he averages 1.9 errors per try not to bad.
With Bowen its amazing that he did that and only ran the ball an average of only 11.5 times per game ranking 115th.
 
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