General Mannering

RRG_old

Guest
Fair crack of the whip here. Fien walked into the Dragons squad? Christ, you make it sound like he's climbed Everest when in actual fact he's riding the pain and playing a very simple game plan. All Bennett gets him to do is pop up passes and back up. You don't have to be a sage old Warrior to do that.

The point is Bennett had a top of the table team and risked dropping a player to add Fien to his 17. Someone as smart as Bennett doesn't do that unless the person is going to add something for sure. I would think a classy coach willing to add you mid season to a team that is already going well is a pretty big endorsment of your talent.

I don't think fien is a superstar but neither is seymour both are good solid halves. Why drop fien to take a risk on a trouble maker who in all honesty may be at best a little bit better. You are risking a whole lot to gain a little.

I agree Witt probably isn't a premiership winning half and your are correct backing up was one of his only strings. He was a very limited footballer. But the issue is they dropped him when their was no sign of anyone better and then we lost some tight games on goal kicking. IF we have the choice of several pretty average 5/8s at least pick the one who is going to kick the goals.

Agree that mannering should be a future captain, however would like to see him get over his fatigue factor before labelling him with any extra responsibility.
 

Blake_old

Guest
Fair crack of the whip here. Fien walked into the Dragons squad? Christ, you make it sound like he's climbed Everest when in actual fact he's riding the pain and playing a very simple game plan. All Bennett gets him to do is pop up passes and back up. You don't have to be a sage old Warrior to do that.

Fien, Witt and Ravioli were all average for the Warriors. Yeah, they were better than Stace was this year, but its kinda bit like Coming to America where the barber talks about Rocky Marciano beating Joe Louis and the barber mentioned "yeah but Joe Louis was 137 years old". Stacey at his prime spooged all over those blokes. Rovelli and Witt's only strengths were backing up. The thing is, I reckon most seasons we'd go alright with both of them, but you'll never win a premiership with them. How many games did they break open? How many games was their kicking so pinpoint that the opposition forwards got tired and gaps opened up because of it? Christ, Nathan Fien has 3 great games at the World Cup and the way some people speak retrospectively about him on here you would think he was the second coming of Muhammad Ali.

The answer for all those blokes is next to 0. It was correct for the Warriors to look for something new. They wanted to take the calculated risk in a bid for glory. It didn't work, nothing ventured nothing gained.

Back to the main point, Simon Mannering. Good player, above average season. Nothing fancy, but he had a few games where he ran some good lines. I just think the service from the inside is so slow from Henderson in particular that it's hard to have time to work over a player and make an opportunity in the backrow. He is easily our best backrower, I know there's a lot of love here for Ukuma and Lewis (me included) but even if you look at it statistically, Simon's involvement is a lot more, and more effective (less missed tackles etc).

He's a bloody good player who played in a woefully beaten team. I hope like hell guys like Mannering and Rapira don't go on the 4 Nations tour. Fatigue clearly set in, 92 straight first grade games coupled with the intensity of 19 straight test matches would rip anyone straight up the guts.

For mine, he should be co-captaining with Price next year. Price is on his last legs, Mannering to me would be a far more effective leader than Micheal Luck.

Fien, Witt and Rovelli were a little above average as players, but to throw them all out – pretty much at the same time, after they had been part of the team for the last few seasons and were a major part of the Warriors run to the semi last year, was madness. I think people are missing the idea that these players were part of a team, how would their sackings affect their fellow team mates (who were no doubt mates as well)?

Rip the guts out of the halves, have a few underperforming players and any team is going to capitulate. The onus falls heavily on the management. How would the Warriors club perform if the management was ripped out mid season? It wouldn’t happen because it would be a suicidal move.

Captain needs to be vocal. Luck seems more willing in this department than Mannering. As you say, Mannering must be shattered after playing so many games the last few years, so how could the captaincy benefit him and the team? Look how Stacey performed when given the job. Neither of them seem to be vocal players but both have a huge part to play in the team.

Also – what’s also this talk about the captain having to be a Kiwi? Shouldn’t it be what’s best for the club?
 

Blake_old

Guest
I don't get it. Almost everyone is against buying average Aussies, there was countless threads dedicated to the cons of each of these players, and I only know one person who wanted Rovelli to stay, yet people keep coming back and saying we should have kept them as soon as they go.

Yeah they were not the best, considering the talent throughout the rest of the team, however, ditching them all at once was a massive mistake considering Jones had one promising game back. If ever he needed someone it was to take the pressure off him, while he organised. Cleary screwed him.
 

Blake_old

Guest
The point is Bennett had a top of the table team and risked dropping a player to add Fien to his 17. Someone as smart as Bennett doesn't do that unless the person is going to add something for sure. I would think a classy coach willing to add you mid season to a team that is already going well is a pretty big endorsment of your talent.

I don't think fien is a superstar but neither is seymour both are good solid halves. Why drop fien to take a risk on a trouble maker who in all honesty may be at best a little bit better. You are risking a whole lot to gain a little.

I agree Witt probably isn't a premiership winning half and your are correct backing up was one of his only strings. He was a very limited footballer. But the issue is they dropped him when their was no sign of anyone better and then we lost some tight games on goal kicking. IF we have the choice of several pretty average 5/8s at least pick the one who is going to kick the goals.

Agree that mannering should be a future captain, however would like to see him get over his fatigue factor before labelling him with any extra responsibility.

Agreed, but not about Mannering being captain.

Also, a top coach can get the best out of a player and builds a team around a star - usually the half - just as Bennett has done. That's why Fein has walked right into the Dragons - he obviously has talents which can be used to benefit the team.

Even thought Fein only had three good games at the world cup, he showed enough promise for Bennett to want to use him again. Fein must be laughing his ass off. World cup winner (however, the Kiwi's only won one vital game so how they can crow too much about that is beyond me), and possibly NRL grand final winner. Nice for him.
 
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ToiletDuck_old

Guest
Iafeta, you make the point that we were never going to win a premiership with those guys, which is true enough. But this Warriors side (in the Price era) has always been a 'whole is greater than the sum of its parts' kind of side, and I think the presence of guys like Witt, Fien, and to a lesser extent Rovelli, typified this.

Hence the signing of Jones, in my eyes, only made sense if management did indeed think they had an honest shot at the premiership. And I don't entirely blame them, given the relative success of the side in '07 and '08. I mean they'd lost no 'key' players and had (at that stage) strengthened the squad. It was here, IMO, that they got it wrong.

From where I was sitting, it was absolutely clear that Stacey Jones was going to be the halfback for 2009. People can cr*p on about form and earning your spot all they want, but if we're all honest...you don't come out of retirement in your early 30's to play for the Vulcans. He was here and he was here for the season.

And I think Stacey, in some respects, received a raw deal. The role I believe he was expected to play wasn't one the team was used to. We'd never been a team with a dominant half or an absolute game-breaker. Suddenly we have this Messiah, with a mountain of expectation, in a role that was absolutely foreign to what we were used to. Stacey was the 'go to' man, and the expectation that I had when he got ball in hand was far greater than any I had with Witt, Fien or Rovelli.

The sad fact of the matter is that he wasn't up to the job, not by a long way. Combined with the other factors that we've exhausted and you have yourself a terrible 2009.

I think people have to remember that we all have 20/20 vision in hindsight. Mistakes have been made, and the glaring example is the failure of the marquee half given the release of certain backup players. We're not alone however, the Broncos released Ennis, Stagg and Hannant to (basically) finance Folau...
 

Northern_Union

Guest
Luck is being groomed as the replacement captain. Apart from Luck the only realistic captain there would be Mannering.
 

JonB_old

Guest
I think Rapira or Packer could have a shot at it in year or two times, even Moon as well.
 

Spence_old

Guest
Regarding Lucks captaincy, perhaps he is just the most respected player? We don't really know what's going on behind the scenes...
 

kiwi's 13-6_old

Guest
fien is a good player but yeah never going to be in that world class player catagorie but put him next to benji marshall or jamie soward etc and boom makes him look twice as good as he is. we should have kept him for the year and had jones an him fighting for game time and to be honest jones would have lost out from mid season onwards... but we didnt. glad rovelli went. witt was mean goal kicker and at times had great distribution. should have kept witt in hindsight tho i never was brave enought to say it at the time.

as for mannering i dont know weather he should be rested due to nigling injuries or play in the tri nations. i guess its up to the club and his personal desire to play for the kiwi's.
 

MarkW_old

Guest
Luck is being groomed as the replacement captain. Apart from Luck the only realistic captain there would be Mannering.

One thing I noticed in the Storm game was how much Packer had to say to the team when they were behind the sticks. Give him a few years and I reckon he'll end up as captain.

I still believe Mannering lacks the maturity to be captain.
 

KeepingTheFaith_old

Guest
One thing I noticed in the Storm game was how much Packer had to say to the team when they were behind the sticks. Give him a few years and I reckon he'll end up as captain.

I still believe Mannering lacks the maturity to be captain.

Even when on the bench Packer is yelling things out and is easily the most animated player.

At the end of the day I think captaincy isn't that big a deal. Props don't play 80 minutes so the chances are you're going to have more than 1 captain over 80 minutes. With or without the 'C' next to his name, Packer will be a leader in years to come.
 

Northern_Union

Guest
One thing I noticed in the Storm game was how much Packer had to say to the team when they were behind the sticks. Give him a few years and I reckon he'll end up as captain.

I still believe Mannering lacks the maturity to be captain.

As long as we get a good captain that leads the team to winning seasons then I, like everyone else here, will be happy.
 

Jesbass_old

Guest
One thing I noticed in the Storm game was how much Packer had to say to the team when they were behind the sticks. Give him a few years and I reckon he'll end up as captain.

I still believe Mannering lacks the maturity to be captain.

The likes of Cleary and Kearney disagree with you - he's in the leadership group at both club and country level. From my dealings with him, he seems to have a good head on his shoulders, which is saying something for someone who used to go around with Nicky Watson!
 

Northern_Union

Guest
The likes of Cleary and Kearney disagree with you - he's in the leadership group at both club and country level. From my dealings with him, he seems to have a good head on his shoulders, which is saying something for someone who used to go around with Nicky Watson!

You ole dog you, your just jealous.:p