General Mad Butcher taking heat on Facebook

Well, come on, does anyone here think SPL let "You just can't beat the Mad Butcher's meat" become his advertising tagline without thinking "Holy crap! A bit of sexual innuendo! That'll get 'em though the door!"

The thing is he probably just saw it as harmless banter. I have no doubt you felt the racist connotation. That is the culture clash. Tell me why you didn't go on Facebook and rant about it though?;):)

It's only harmless banter if the two parties know it's that. I could call my Chinese workmates all sorts of names "as harmless banter" but of course they'd be pissed off and ultimately I'd get my ass kicked becuase we don't have that kind of relationship where we throw derogatory terms at each other but know we're taking the piss.

I would never use a racist term against anyone who didn't use it against themselves first - but, of course, why would they?
 
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We are all agreed racism is wrong. There are two major parts to this. One is causing offence to someone. The other is taking offence too easily.

For me, although admittedly I am white, Boag's comments were worse in that it was a considered response.

It does show people live in isolation more and more, as such we will associate with those we are more comfortable with. Often similar race is one of those comfortable things.

In this age of social media people talk at, not with each other, added to the bravery of distance and things tend to troll easily. It is a fallacy to think that social media brings us together, it isolates us more.

For me this is why sport is so important, a wide cross section of people share a common interest and can get to know and understand each other. Two wrongs don't make a right, the response to the racism is important IMO.

To me if someone causes offence may not mean they are racist. If their offending is pointed out to them in an appropriate way, and they still carry on that behaviour. Then they are racist.
 
Moving away from the situation, it seems we've learned more about the Butch thru those who've had run-ins with the bloke, whom have been empowered to speak out thanks to Lara Bridger.

People are quick to fart out what Sir Pete has done in order to justify the allegations against him, but now we're getting insight into the context of his charity.

The article/blog written by Leilani Tamu, daughter of Bill Burgoyne, gave a first hand account of the other side of the Butchers "charity", or patronage as she describes it.

Long story short, she accuses Peter of only helping those that can help him, or feed and grow his agenda.

Look, I'm with the mass majority who have never met the Butch, being of Polynesian decent it appears that might be a good thing. Back on track, this is all she-said he-said at the end of the day.

But, for example, a lot of counter arguments in favour of Butch use his contributions to Rugby League (and it's multi-cultural participants) to paint him in a positive light. Oh he can't have said anything racist right?

Cross-referencing again to the aforementioned blog article (and some of you probably know this first hand) - it claims the Butch walks around as a self proclaimed "king" of Auckland Rugby League. It's obviously well know that he's also referred to as the biggest Rugby League fan in the country.

He's also the Kiwis ambassador.

He's also the Warriors 19th man.

Heck he has his own lounge at Mt Smart Stadium.

All I'm saying is, for all the good he's done for Rugby League in general, would he have done it without receiving all the perks? Without earning the preverbial "crown" of Rugby League in NZ? Without being looked up to by those Multi-cultural participants of the game - the same ones who have publically come out in "support"?

I personally doubt it. That's his agenda, and in this instance it's worked.

Without intentially trying to discredit what he's given to the Warriors and RL in general, any genuine nice acts he may have done, nor calling him a racist as I've never meet the dude - we cannot discredit the claims of his character which are coming out like wildfire.

Mark Hunt sounded pissed, because he's been on the end of a racist tirade at the hands of the Butch. So has our own Mt Wellington it seems. Leilani Tamu saw her father fall victim to the otherside of the Butchers so called charity. Then we have the OG Lara Bridger who had the guts to share her experience to send a message that racism shouldn't be tolerated in our society.

Piecing the puzzle together, maybe the Butch isn't the glorified philanthropist we all though him to be. It's not just Lara, but other multi-cultural members of our community speaking out about unfortunate encounters with "Sir" Peter. At first it seemed like a 23 year old girl looking for her 10 mins of fame. But, as we gain more references to cite from, those who've come out to share their own piece of Peter Leitch history to the world, Lara doesn't sound so silly after all huh.

And it's not just Peter Leitch. Racism lives in our society everyday. It's much bigger than this. Whether it's old school or whatever, this is a new age. Where equality should be encouraged and supported.

It isn't though. That's why this situation has been blown out of the water.

The worst part though? People finding ways to justify it - and doing so with conviction, calling the Butch old school, light-hearted, or calling it causal racism...

That there is the start of problem.

#Warriors2017
Great post. I've never analysed the Mad Butcher business model, however I'm fairly confident that his 'brand' and goodwill would have played a pretty major role in his previous financial success. His philanthropic efforts may well have been designed to ultimately line his own pockets. From a purely capitalist perspective - nice effort.

All that aside, I maintain that he should be nowhere near our first grade squad in any capacity beyond attending games like any other fan. If you are looking for some reasons why our culture sucks, then I reckon he might be a good place to start.
 

Inruin

Contributor
Moving away from the situation, it seems we've learned more about the Butch thru those who've had run-ins with the bloke, whom have been empowered to speak out thanks to Lara Bridger.

People are quick to fart out what Sir Pete has done in order to justify the allegations against him, but now we're getting insight into the context of his charity.

The article/blog written by Leilani Tamu, daughter of Bill Burgoyne, gave a first hand account of the other side of the Butchers "charity", or patronage as she describes it.

Long story short, she accuses Peter of only helping those that can help him, or feed and grow his agenda.

Look, I'm with the mass majority who have never met the Butch, being of Polynesian decent it appears that might be a good thing. Back on track, this is all she-said he-said at the end of the day.

But, for example, a lot of counter arguments in favour of Butch use his contributions to Rugby League (and it's multi-cultural participants) to paint him in a positive light. Oh he can't have said anything racist right?

Cross-referencing again to the aforementioned blog article (and some of you probably know this first hand) - it claims the Butch walks around as a self proclaimed "king" of Auckland Rugby League. It's obviously well know that he's also referred to as the biggest Rugby League fan in the country.

He's also the Kiwis ambassador.

He's also the Warriors 19th man.

Heck he has his own lounge at Mt Smart Stadium.

All I'm saying is, for all the good he's done for Rugby League in general, would he have done it without receiving all the perks? Without earning the preverbial "crown" of Rugby League in NZ? Without being looked up to by those Multi-cultural participants of the game - the same ones who have publically come out in "support"?

I personally doubt it. That's his agenda, and in this instance it's worked.

Without intentially trying to discredit what he's given to the Warriors and RL in general, any genuine nice acts he may have done, nor calling him a racist as I've never meet the dude - we cannot discredit the claims of his character which are coming out like wildfire.

Mark Hunt sounded pissed, because he's been on the end of a racist tirade at the hands of the Butch. So has our own Mt Wellington it seems. Leilani Tamu saw her father fall victim to the otherside of the Butchers so called charity. Then we have the OG Lara Bridger who had the guts to share her experience to send a message that racism shouldn't be tolerated in our society.

Piecing the puzzle together, maybe the Butch isn't the glorified philanthropist we all though him to be. It's not just Lara, but other multi-cultural members of our community speaking out about unfortunate encounters with "Sir" Peter. At first it seemed like a 23 year old girl looking for her 10 mins of fame. But, as we gain more references to cite from, those who've come out to share their own piece of Peter Leitch history to the world, Lara doesn't sound so silly after all huh.

And it's not just Peter Leitch. Racism lives in our society everyday. It's much bigger than this. Whether it's old school or whatever, this is a new age. Where equality should be encouraged and supported.

It isn't though. That's why this situation has been blown out of the water.

The worst part though? People finding ways to justify it - and doing so with conviction, calling the Butch old school, light-hearted, or calling it causal racism...

That there is the start of problem.

#Warriors2017
I'm not getting the whole Bill Burgoyne thing. Had gambling problem, Butch tries to help him out, still has gambling problem. What are people expecting? SPL to pay off all his debts, put him through rehab, monitor him there after, pay any subsequent debts. I'm sorry, but that piece came across to me as a great sports person who had a gambling problem and never took responsibility for it.
 
I'm not getting the whole Bill Burgoyne thing. Had gambling problem, Butch tries to help him out, still has gambling problem. What are people expecting? SPL to pay off all his debts, put him through rehab, monitor him there after, pay any subsequent debts. I'm sorry, but that piece came across to me as a great sports person who had a gambling problem and never took responsibility for it.
It's the victim mentality. Blame others for your own problems.
 
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mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
The article/blog written by Leilani Tamu, daughter of Bill Burgoyne, gave a first hand account of the other side of the Butchers "charity", or patronage as she describes it.
January 4, 2017 by leilanitamu
MY BEEF WITH THE MAD BUTCHER


Ok, so this post is for the Butcher. The Mad Butcher. Sir Peter Leitch. Peter – I’m Bill Burgoyne’s daughter. You and I both know what that means. Everyone of your generation in NZ’s rugby league circles knows what that means. Enough said.

I was one of Bill’s three kids always sitting in the back of the old-beat-up-car or hiding under the stands at Carlaw, one of the kids you barely noticed as you said what you liked about who, what and when you liked. A kind of self-appointed-King in Auckland’s rugby league circles. Monied and mouthy and filthy rich. People generally knew not to mess with the Butcher. Because if they did, there was generally something to lose.

That’s because you are known for your ‘generosity’. You are known for being the guy who cultivates friendship and favour by making big donations, whether in cash or kind to the cause. And you and I both know that when my dad’s compulsive gambling habit had taken over his life (to the point where when he had no job and his second “coconut” wife had left him – yes I remember you calling her that – and he was bankrupt, again), you were one of the few people that gave him a job. Selling meat out of the back of his car for you. I remember that. I remember traipsing around Auckland with dad in his bomb and him pulling over to sell frozen meat to people. Hoping they might buy some so he could pay you back. I don’t know if the arrangement was under the table, but I suspect it was.

Yup, that was 1990s Auckland – and in league circles no one blinked an eye at Bill doing a bit of work on the side for the Butcher. Cause the thing is you were the King. And your generosity had another name. A name I’ve come to appreciate in my adult years as I’ve encountered more and more people in positions of influence and power. It’s called Patronage. Looking after people so long as they look after you. Which means people dont bite the hand that feeds them.

But I guess my dad did eventually bite you, hey? Cause he couldn’t keep his mouth shut – or sort his gambling – which made him a risk to you. So eventually you cut him off completely. Wrote him off. Like a cheque. Didnt even turn up to his funeral (which was packed by the way – and thanks to Derek Fox and Willie Jackson for bothering to turn up).

And you’re probably pleased to know that in the last few months of his life he was sleeping in his car. Saving money on rent to pay for his gambling habit. I imagine you take great pleasure in that, knowing that he suffered – because he had crossed you – which made him your enemy. And you don’t treat your enemies kindly (I remember overhearing you saying that too). But you do look after your friends – and you like that people think you’re really a ‘decent’ bloke at heart. A mate.

But sorry Peter, I’ve seen you up close on far too many occasions (when you didnt even realise you were being observed) to know better. You are not a decent bloke. And being someone’s patron is not the same as being their friend. Your behaviour has long gone unchecked and I applaud and #respect Lara Wharepapa-Bridger for having the courage to call you on it publicly. It’s about time someone did!

And to Dame Susan Devoy – given your comments (which I see as entirely inappropriate given your role i.e. personal vs professional commentary) if I were you I would seriously be reflecting on how well you know Mr Leitch, because the kind of ‘light-hearted banter’ you might be used to him peddling, is clearly quite different to the ‘banter’ I was exposed to as a child.

https://leilanitamu.com/

TBH when I read that blog I thought it was all shit. Sounds to me that Bill was a complete fuck up, Butch gave him a hand and knowing how stupid gamblers are he spent the meat money at the TAB. The bloke died a gambling addict living in his car...
 

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
I'm not getting the whole Bill Burgoyne thing. Had gambling problem, Butch tries to help him out, still has gambling problem. What are people expecting? SPL to pay off all his debts, put him through rehab, monitor him there after, pay any subsequent debts. I'm sorry, but that piece came across to me as a great sports person who had a gambling problem and never took responsibility for it.
Beat me to it before I had a chance to read the other page but thats exactly how it came across to me. And why was he living in his car when he had this loving women as fams? Doesnt add up...
 
Really? So he can be racist because of what he's done? If he gives $10 million away does he get away with murder???
In all respect to everyone the context has been missed, doing good works or being successful is not a license to be above the law but if you were to make a judgement without knowing the facts you would be inclined to think that the person with the track record would be more likely to be believed bit not absolutely.
 
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Moving away from the situation, it seems we've learned more about the Butch thru those who've had run-ins with the bloke, whom have been empowered to speak out thanks to Lara Bridger.

People are quick to fart out what Sir Pete has done in order to justify the allegations against him, but now we're getting insight into the context of his charity.

I ain't justifying anything. I'm just trying to get people on here to understand that no matter how much his comments are inexcusable and his actions on this by him and those around him unexplainable, we must also understand that sometimes in life words don't always mean what they're supposed to mean and sometimes the most horrible uses of language can be seen by some as a term of endearment ... :(
 
I wondered too where the point was with that ex players story.
At one point she mentions he didn't keep his mouth shut so was cut off from the charity he was receiving. Without know what she means by that it really just seems like SPL just got sick of trying to help someone that wouldn't help themselves.
 
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I'm not getting the whole Bill Burgoyne thing. Had gambling problem, Butch tries to help him out, still has gambling problem. What are people expecting? SPL to pay off all his debts, put him through rehab, monitor him there after, pay any subsequent debts. I'm sorry, but that piece came across to me as a great sports person who had a gambling problem and never took responsibility for it.
She probably shot herself in the foot sharing the intimate details of her father, opening up for truthful comments such as yours which would add to her pain but hey, that was her decision.

I think she was trying the use her father as a case study to exemplify her point about the Butch only willing to help out those who can give something back to him. Through her eyes it seamed he only leant a hand to Bill in order to feed into his reputation, to make himself look like a saint in the league circles. But when things didn't improve in terms of shaking his habit, instead of being persistent in trying to help the guy like a friend would, he cut him off in order to save his reputation.

That's how she's trying to come across. It's a shame Bill didn't have a stronger support network as that isn't all blood on the Butchers hands, if at all to be honest.
 
I ain't justifying anything. I'm just trying to get people on here to understand that no matter how much his comments are inexcusable and his actions on this by him and those around him unexplainable, we must also understand that sometimes in life words don't always mean what they're supposed to mean and sometimes the most horrible uses of language can be seen by some as a term of endearment ... :(
That's cool, however with that process there is still a level of acceptance with what was said.

Using the SPL situation as an example - Even though there is acknowledgement that the words SPL spoke are inexcusable, because people believe he didn't mean to come across as racially inappropriate that makes it okay, or at the least acceptable.

Unfortunately that's where the core of the problem lies. And how "causal racism" gets blow off on a daily basis.

It is unfortunate for the Butch that he's been made a scapegoat for the bigger picture, but this situation for example is how the bigger problems arise.
 

Inruin

Contributor
That's cool, however with that process there is still a level of acceptance with what was said.

Using the SPL situation as an example - Even though there is acknowledgement that the words SPL spoke are inexcusable, because people believe he didn't mean to come across as racially inappropriate that makes it okay, or at the least acceptable.

Unfortunately that's where the core of the problem lies. And how "causal racism" gets blow off on a daily basis.

It is unfortunate for the Butch that he's been made a scapegoat for the bigger picture, but this situation for example is how the bigger problems arise.
but what would happen if it had been the other way round and the Butcher got on face book all teary eyed talking about how he tried to warn some people who had waved at him about drink driving on waiheke. And you know what they said? Sniff, sniff. she said she was tangata whenua and could do what she wanted. I'm so upset in this day and age that someone would say this type of thing. Sniff, sniff.

people get annoyed at gutter journalism and unsubstantiated reporting. To me, people getting on social media like this is no better, if not worse.
 
but what would happen if it had been the other way round and the Butcher got on face book all teary eyed talking about how he tried to warn some people who had waved at him about drink driving on waiheke. And you know what they said? Sniff, sniff. she said she was tangata whenua and could do what she wanted. I'm so upset in this day and age that someone would say this type of thing. Sniff, sniff.

people get annoyed at gutter journalism and unsubstantiated reporting. To me, people getting on social media like this is no better, if not worse.
Your not wrong. I mean the whole reason why this whole thing has riled me up is because I've been on the receiving of racism myself. Writing on social media or on here won't ever make up for not defending myself when I was face to face with a racist.

Problem is there's a bigger picture but the Butch has been made a scapegoat because of this situation. Everyone's been empowered to talk out all of a sudden, instead of making a difference when it really counts.

The powers of social media huh, lol.
 
Yeah looks like Sunday Star Times agrees with me.

Just because somebody says something racist doesn't mean it's meant to be taken as being racist.

Context is everything but some people hearing racist phrase can't seem to see pass that (as bad and unforgivable as that phrase is). That and I know people want to call what he said casual racism but it can't be if it was never intended to be ..

Phil Gifford: I've known Peter Leitch for 40 years and never heard him say a racist word
  • Defending Peter if, like me, you've lived your life as a Pakeha, is to run the risk of stoking racial fires on both sides of the debate, possibly upsetting non-Pakeha, or encouraging anti-Maori feeling.

    But it'd be cowardly of me not to say, because it's true, that in four decades of friendship with Peter, socialising in each other's homes, speaking together at almost 100 functions, travelling and holidaying together with our wives, and sending hours and hours with him while writing his biography in 2007, I've never seen or heard him behave in a racist manner.

    So yes, I'm offended when people make, on social media, an all out assault on him as a person, some judging and even condemning a man's whole life on the basis of one comment, which he knows was wrong, and has apologised for.

    It just doesn't seem logical that a racist person would be described by Monty Betham as being "like a father to me", or that Peter Fatialofa's widow, Anne, would write to me, "No way, to the moon and back, is Peter Leitch racist." Or that way back in his Mangere East club days in the 1970s one of the all time Kiwi greats Olsen Filipaina would give his first test jersey to Peter because, "he was like a second father to me."

    But let's be more specific.

    Did the same people who bagged Peter this week consider him a racist in 1999 when, with The Mad Butcher Suburban Newspapers Community Trust, enough money was raised to pay for 120 South Auckland children, the vast majority Pasifika and Maori kids, to have glue ear operations in one weekend at Middlemore hospital, wiping out a five year waiting list in two days?

    Bizarrely he was actually accused of racism at the time. On the set of TVNZ's Good Morning show presenter Alison Leonard was dumbfounded when a print journalist accused Peter of only doing charity work "for brown people." She remembers Peter's reply, "You make me spew mate! I'm trying to do something for the community and you say I'm racist. I'm bloody not."

    Did anyone in the cash strapped Hawkes Bay Maori league sides of the 1980s think he was a racist when he supplied enough free meat to feed the team at Auckland tournaments for up to three days? Hawkes Bay official and social worker Denis O'Reilly told me in 2007: "The boys got such a buzz from meeting Peter, and from the aroha of the man. One time in Auckland we had so much kai we had to invite the wahine team over."

    One of my reasons for liking Peter is that when I first knew him he wasn't very rich, and not that famous, but even then he was generous, and he was especially generous with his help for ordinary people.

    That's how he got involved with the Mangere East league club, an organisation that's blue collar to the core. He was asked for sponsorship money in the late 1960s, but, short of cash, offered them meat for raffles instead.

    He'd never played the game, but soon found the club members were, like himself, "working class people. Like me, the guys aren't from silver spoon families." That love affair with the people of league continues to this day with the Warriors.

    With his success Peter could offer more, but his donations haven't been designed to put his name on buildings. He knows how hard it is for everyday men and women to get by, and those are the people he's always reached out to.

    He's a compulsive chatter to other people. Does he always get it right when he meets strangers?

    Of course not. Peter's natural state is over the top. He sometimes swears when he shouldn't have. He makes outrageous jokes, which risk causing offence. "Mate," I've heard him say on many occasions from the stage to a man in the front row at a sports' club, "who's this lovely woman with you?" "My wife." "That's funny, it wasn't who I saw you with in K Road last night."

    But hand on heart, I can say he's never malicious.

    And for me a key issue of racism is that malice is involved. Peter has apologised for offending Lara Bridger on Waiheke. He says he should have chosen his words more carefully.

    But take it to the bank, whatever he said didn't come from a hateful place.

    - Sunday Star Times

 
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I wondered too where the point was with that ex players story.
At one point she mentions he didn't keep his mouth shut so was cut off from the charity he was receiving. Without know what she means by that it really just seems like SPL just got sick of trying to help someone that wouldn't help themselves.
or perhaps selling TMB product out of a car trunk and not paying tax while spouting SPL's name around town might not go down well with the IRD let alone give his business brand an unfavourable reputation amongst franchisees
 
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That and I know people want to call what he said casual racism but it can't be if it was never intended to be ..
he only responded in kind to her remark about being "tangata whenua", which could also imply racial connotations. This whole overblown drama is absurd but has managed to fill more news columns and airtime for the media, the girl was quick to react in the moment but misjudged the conversation no doubt due to alcohol intake, then made matters worse for all in sundry by continuing her bad judgement sharing her youthful naivety online. She got what she asked for and deserved it, let that be a lesson to her and prey she is the wiser for it.
 
Wasnt planning to comment on this topic, but it surprises me that no one has made this point.

According to his recount, she said she was Tangata Whenua, so could do what she wanted. He replied, "This is a white man's island too". To me that meant that the island was for everyone, not just Maori, or locals. Not racist at all (in my view), while hers was extremely racist, by implying a right over other races.

Her Facebook video with the fake tears contains no real story. She recounts the situation with vague comments like "He said (insert vaguely racially implied comment), blah blah blah. His daughter came along and said (defending her father), blah blah blah. When someone replays a conversation and wants to edit it for their own gain, they fill it with blah blah blah to remove the proof of their lies.

Im not saying Butch is blameless, or is telling the whole truth (I personally dont like the guy, even though he demanded I sit down at the Pub with Stacey, Awen, and a few other players for a drink, in 2003, in Invers after a preseason match. I find him totally over the top and arrogant), but I tend to believe this girl is after media and public attention, and is in fact the big racist in this situation, by implying she deserves special treatment over us crackers, simply because a part of her ancestry originates in NZ, while mine and all the other non-natives have none. I dislike this feeling of special rights that still exists. I have no problem with entire tribes gaining some land and ownership rights, due to heritage, but dont feel individuals should gain anything from it. We were mostly born here, and I feel its time this feeling of individual entitlement began to fade.

Tell me Im a bigot for my views if you like. Maybe I am.
 

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