Internationals Kiwi's Version of Origin

[Tyrael]

Ok, I'm not talking whether or not we need it or where it should be played, but simply if we had it what would it be called , 3 match vs one off and who plays who.

Name: (no idea the moment)
Teams: Born in NZ vs Kiwi but Born Elsewhere
3 Match series.

Unlike SOO the criteria is simple without ambiguity.

 

[Rizzah]

Name: Not sure.
Teams: I think Auckland vs the rest will be the option. Will this include all the poly nations or just NZrs?
A one off game the first year, building up to a 3 match series the following year.

Personally i'd rather see the SOO reconfigured to allow all NRL players to become eligible, whether they align with the ARL or not.
Maybe a Sydney vs The Rest or 3 teams. NSW vs QLD vs The Rest.
I think the NRL needs to realise it's current format is a detriment to international footy.
And there is enough quality non-australian NRL players that miss out on a great league showcase.

 

[Danpatmac]

Personally i'd rather see the SOO reconfigured to allow all NRL players to become eligible, whether they align with the ARL or not.
Maybe a Sydney vs The Rest or 3 teams. NSW vs QLD vs The Rest.
I think the NRL needs to realise it's current format is a detriment to international footy.
And there is enough quality non-australian NRL players that miss out on a great league showcase.

Never gonna happen.
Aussies see SOO as the pinnacle and everything else comes second to that, internationals included.
Also, as long as NSW v QLD is seen by Aussies as the pinnacle it will mean their international team will most likely be the strongest due to this competition and experience, so they are never gonna change... they sell out the games and it's massive for TV ratings, so obviously there is no need or interest in including others who might be great players, they simply don't need them. This is clearly shown by the fact that NSW hasn't looked like winning in half a decade, but thet crowds, TV and media still lap up every drop.

Kiwis are kidding themselves if they think there is any mandate, desire or benefit to Australian league for them to change this.

As for the NZ origin concept, i'm undecided.
It could be great, but I get the sneaking suspicion our lack of crowds and apathetic attitude will make it a financial failure.

Many people, mostly Aussies keep mentioning North Vs South island, and geographically it would make sense, however there are the obvious lack of players of quality from the Southern catchment, mind you that reminds me of how QLD started.
I would have to be in the Auckland Vs The Rest camp... you would get quality sides, which is the key. Also, there is a distinct jealousy and insecurity from provincial NZ towards the wonderful and beautiful Queen City... if you don't believe me then go play a season of cricket in Invercargill like I did and tell them your an Aucklander... even my own team gave me endless shit.

I'm a skeptic and to be honest, I would be amazed if it works out... but if it does, happy days.

Name: I am not a fan of Kiwi Roots or Kiwi Origin... hmmm
Teams: I would like to see the teams given their own Maori names that represent the nature of the make up of the teams.

 

[Rizzah]

I know i'm kidding myself to think they will change.. haha nice thought tho!
It'd be nice if they atleast modified it somewhat to keep up with the current and ever changing player makeup of the NRL.
Maybe with the new commission, it'll get some thought over the next few years.

 

[Tyrael]

Not all the games have to be played in NZ. Like the Melbourne game there were so many Warriors supporters there. I can see Melbourne, Sydney and Auckland as 3 venues to play. Not ANZ but a decent 30,000 stadium should be filled out.

I don't think having anything with Origin in the name would be good. If you have Auckland vs the rest, a name would be really hard to figure out imo

 

[Blain]

Makes not alot of sense having 2 games in Oz and 1 in Auckland, might as well not even play it. Its about building the game in New Zealand.

Should be one in Auckland and one or two in Wellington/Dunedin/Christchurch. Maybe 1 in Brisbane or Sydney, but I think judging by crowds for NRL games for Chch (around 25k), they would sell the same amount of seats pretty much.

It should be Auckland vs the rest. Got to make it the greatest spectacle you can.

Dont know about the name, I dont like "Roots" either.

I dont want Kiwis anywhere near Origin, its a Aussie past time, and it would just be ruined if Kiwis play in it. Just ruins the whole rivalry imo, which is the best thing about it.

 

[AttilaTheGorilla]

I'm drawn to a NZ resident Kiwis vs overseas based Kiwis concept, no idea what they'd be called. Vulcans players would be eligible too. Ideally we'd need another NZ team before that could really take off.

 

[Danpatmac]

Kiwi Roots just sounds like a crap compilation of that crap roots music you hear at bbqs

 

[Tyrael]

When you guys say Auckland. Does that mean Born in Auckland? If so, how many players are actually born in Auckland?

 

[Tyrael]

What about something with the word Ancestral in it

 

[Fazz]

I would say bugger location or birth. Just have a draft system of some sort where the coaches can "bid" on players or something. It would result in a good even contest. Honestly, you're not going to get warfare with these guys, it's not like Origin, so why not make it an even, exciting contest?

 

[Rizzah]

I would say bugger location or birth. Just have a draft system of some sort where the coaches can "bid" on players or something. It would result in a good even contest. Honestly, you're not going to get warfare with these guys, it's not like Origin, so why not make it an even, exciting contest?

Yeah i like that idea.
although who would the punters then support. there needs to be a rivalry of some sort?

 

[Tyrael]

I would say bugger location or birth. Just have a draft system of some sort where the coaches can "bid" on players or something. It would result in a good even contest. Honestly, you're not going to get warfare with these guys, it's not like Origin, so why not make it an even, exciting contest?

It would be entertaining week to week, but would leave supporters with no one to support. This way there won't be a legacy either.

 

[MarkW]

The obvious difficulty a Kiwi origin style series has is creating a competitive rivalry that matches the whole QLD vs NSW scenario.
I think a Northern Vs Southern concept may work. The Southern team consisting the rest of NZ south of the Bombay hills.
Aussie born players should perhaps get the choice to represent where their families are from in NZ so they get to claim some kind of identity.
There are over 100 eligible NRL players to choose from FG squads (some are obviously reserve grade and U20s). It would be nice to have ESL players available too but the logistics would be difficult.
I also think that the match should be a one off game rather than a series to start with just to see how the concept pans out.

As for naming the match... Not sure. The Baskerville Cup or something alluding to the history of Kiwi league?

 

[Fazz]

Fair points. I'm not sure there would be a rivalry anyway though, at least initially.

I'm not saying my idea is the only one, just a suggestion. Maybe make the draft permanent?

Like in the first year, everybody is a "free agent" and both coaches have 25 "Roster Spots" that they can fill. You have your draft ala the NFL (however that works) and boom, you have your first year squads. In this subsequent years, all players that have been drafted remain eligible for the team they were initially chosen for, while the coaches can choose to draft in new players each year. I'm sure there would be more details to iron out, but that's the rough idea.

One problem with this is that one coach might draft Benji in year one, but not want him in the second year. In this instance, the coaches could negotiate a player trade or something to insure that all of the best players are included and none miss out for strange reasons.

Basically this model would create a rivalry over time, while also allowing things to be fair. It's pretty rough, but with some fine tuning it could be useful.

 

[Danpatmac]

I dislike the draft idea personally.
There is little to grab on to for fans and for upcoming players, little to aspire to in terms of affiliations or representation. Just made up teams that would be hard to connect to.

Auckland has a decent number of quality players to choose from. It could be a combination or birth or first league affiliation.
Australian born players qualify for the regional team, whatever they are called.
This is the only way to create something with staying power, other than nth v sth islands.

The rivalry aspect has seeds in the provinces, lots of people I know and have met dislike Auckland intensely.
Also the marketing and media aspect are crucial in building the rivalry, doesn't need to be like origin, but there needs to be something at stake... kiwi jerseys, money or both.

 

[fanrrior]

I dislike the draft idea personally.
There is little to grab on to for fans and for upcoming players, little to aspire to in terms of affiliations or representation. Just made up teams that would be hard to connect to.

Auckland has a decent number of quality players to choose from. It could be a combination or birth or first league affiliation.
Australian born players qualify for the regional team, whatever they are called.
This is the only way to create something with staying power, other than nth v sth islands.

The rivalry aspect has seeds in the provinces, lots of people I know and have met dislike Auckland intensely.
Also the marketing and media aspect are crucial in building the rivalry, doesn't need to be like origin, but there needs to be something at stake... kiwi jerseys, money or both.

Why can't it be one-off like the all stars match or less hate orientated i.e city/country. NRL fans would watch it 'cause it should be a good match and new fans will be sucked into it if the media is on it. Hell I watched the first rwc match knowing I wouldn't enjoy it because of all the hype. I think they should try it once, then see how the majority of the fans react.

 

[Tyrael]

I'm really surprised there hasn't been one yet.

 

[Fazz]

Why can't it be one-off like the all stars match or less hate orientated i.e city/country. NRL fans would watch it 'cause it should be a good match and new fans will be sucked into it if the media is on it. Hell I watched the first rwc match knowing I wouldn't enjoy it because of all the hype. I think they should try it once, then see how the majority of the fans react.

This. Why do they need to hate each other? Just because the Aussies are locked in some kind of retarded civil war doesn't mean we need to do the same. We should be trying to unite the League communities in NZ, not split them.

 

[¿N. ig-mah¿]

Name: Jaffas V New Zealand?

jsut kidding.

I reckon we need to distance ourselves from the Aussie format totally. We need something truly Kiwi. I mentioned this elsewhere and think it could be evolved in some way to be more interesting.

My idea:
A real number 8 wire/school-yard formula
Public ballot for top 50 NZ alligned players (not neccesarily Kiwis but some connection to NZ through ancestry, team, or some other connection)
Two coaches are chosen (either by the public or some knowledgable NZRL representative).
The 2 coaches come together and coach the palyers together.
2 days prior to the game, the players all line up against a wall and the coaches take turns picking players. They then have 2 days to develop their own gameplans and train the players accordingly.

It would be more of an exhibition match than an angry, rivalry based competition. I have always enjoyed big exhibition matches, like "Origin Legends" and some of the testimonial matches I have seen in different sports over the years, like the Martin Crowe lead Young Guns Vs the Geoff Crowe veterans cricket match they televised years ago.
Maybe they could even go back to some old-school rules like 3 point tries, tap and go when there are no markers, contested scrums, raking the ball from marker, etc.

just an idea.