So long as nobody is cutting your lunch.
Social Movies
- Thread starter jonesy101
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Ripley in Aliens rules them all. Sigourney Weaver pure class.
Also loved Kathleen Turner in Romancing the Stone.
Casting a serious female actor as lead in an movie about aliens that bust out of peoples guts was a smart decision indeed, those films suck without Ripley.
Romancing the stones a classic.
Linda Hamilton of course is another iconic heroine in the Scifi genre, another woman who dreamed of serious dramatic screen work who by good fortune got passed her own prejudice against Arnolrd who she thought was a joke.
Sigourney was hilarious in the Comedy called Paul as the malevolent govt spook trying to kill Paul the friendly alien.
She is one of my favorite actors
The difference to the old movies with female leads the main characters would develop or struggle to start with where the movies now they don't want to show the female characters as struggle and they end up as this perfect character to start with. They pick up the skills too quickly or don't even need to train to pick them up.
Terminator for example we meet Sarah Connor as a young girl with a waitressing job. She is more the damsel in distress in that movie as Kyle Reese gets her through while she is sceptical of what he is saying and then learns about the future. She is a bit more hardened when the movie concludes. The second movie she is a different beast. Trained her body, trained with weapons.
I haven't seen much of the Aliens franchise but what I have seen she struggles and has to work to defeat the alien.
It has been years since I've seen it but the Long Kiss Goodnight. She starts as a house wife and as events unfold she hears about the skills or life she used to have. As the movie unfolds she eventually gets them back. But has to work for them.
Modern movies they have trained (trained to fight) female characters and they end up throwing males that weight 2-3 times they do around. Sure some martial arts involve using using peoples weight against them but these scenes don't typically do that.
The last Star Wars sequel Rey didn't do any of the training Luke had to do. She was just the best. Due to criticism they had to add some training scenes in the last movie. She could also get in the Millennium Falcon after never flying before and evade fully trained pilots without an issue.
The other thing with modern media is the preaching. She Hulk picks up all of the skills quicker than the Hulk and tells him she knows more about controlling her anger as she's being doing it more than him because she's a woman. Remember The Hulk has had to control his anger as him getting angry could lead to a city block being destroyed.
Terminator for example we meet Sarah Connor as a young girl with a waitressing job. She is more the damsel in distress in that movie as Kyle Reese gets her through while she is sceptical of what he is saying and then learns about the future. She is a bit more hardened when the movie concludes. The second movie she is a different beast. Trained her body, trained with weapons.
I haven't seen much of the Aliens franchise but what I have seen she struggles and has to work to defeat the alien.
It has been years since I've seen it but the Long Kiss Goodnight. She starts as a house wife and as events unfold she hears about the skills or life she used to have. As the movie unfolds she eventually gets them back. But has to work for them.
Modern movies they have trained (trained to fight) female characters and they end up throwing males that weight 2-3 times they do around. Sure some martial arts involve using using peoples weight against them but these scenes don't typically do that.
The last Star Wars sequel Rey didn't do any of the training Luke had to do. She was just the best. Due to criticism they had to add some training scenes in the last movie. She could also get in the Millennium Falcon after never flying before and evade fully trained pilots without an issue.
The other thing with modern media is the preaching. She Hulk picks up all of the skills quicker than the Hulk and tells him she knows more about controlling her anger as she's being doing it more than him because she's a woman. Remember The Hulk has had to control his anger as him getting angry could lead to a city block being destroyed.
But is the character Rey social engineering or just poor writing with a lazy plot which then gets the ire up of the train spotting fans who have a bias against the overt social engineering in other formats.
She is a Palpatine, so having more raw untrained powers is what you would expect of a blood relative of the Emporer....basically the figure who could kill Vader/a Skywalker.
I think she is an excellent choice for the lead, she is the main reason I am back into Star Wars.
I suspect they were mindful of not just copying the struggles of Luke because it is formulaic, and they were lazy, and they were aware there is a lot of low hanging fruit.
I personally would have preffered she was not an insta Jedi too.....but this is not a new social engineering thing, historically (often male writers) have been one dimensional in their handling of heroines....Wonder Woman and Supergirl....the bionic Woman are all lacking depth....missing the kryptonite weakness....all dolly birds....shallow and invented pre post modern feminism.
I'm sure a Jane Campion version of Rey would be VERY different, probably tormented, probably darkly weird and unlikeable.
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Atomic blonde is a good recent female lead action film.
Some of the best movies have female action, like terminator, aliens , 5th element, Matrix...
Some of the best movies have female action, like terminator, aliens , 5th element, Matrix...
Tragic
Contributor
Been a bit bored this last week and struggling to find something to watch, ended up watching a documentary about the writing of the new testament and link to Roman leaders. Find it really interesting.
Now watching The Amish and the Reformation. That's kinda interesting too. Weird how you can just make up your own rules and ask these people follow you, says something about us that we need something to join us together and disagree with someone who made some other rules around the same book.
Now watching The Amish and the Reformation. That's kinda interesting too. Weird how you can just make up your own rules and ask these people follow you, says something about us that we need something to join us together and disagree with someone who made some other rules around the same book.
Tragic
Contributor
Caesars Messiah was the first movie. Really good if that stuff interests you.
The main problem is the writing. Most of the issues in Hollywood start in the writing room.
Her being a Palpetine doesn't make her more powerful. You still need to train in the force. The Emporer had to train from Darth Plagueis. Vader would have been more powerful than Palpetine except for his injuries and his suit.
Her story could have been interesting. The story would have been better if the character of Finn went on a similar journey along side her. That was the character that got most of the fan base excited. But they forgot about him.
Lucasfilm did the usual modern thing insulting the audience. Calling them sexist and racist. Most of the audience wanted Finn to be the hero. The racist part they jumped onto was incorrect as well. That was from a few people getting confused as the Storm Trooper they showed in the trailer (Finn) wasn't a clone (Temuera Morrison) as they didn't know that the clones were moved on by then as the Empire moved onto using conscripted citizens as they didn't need a large army more a police force and it was cheaper. The cloning technology was also lost.
Finn a former Storm Trooper becoming force sensitive and trained to be a Jedi would have been a popular storyline. The problem is they did a bait and switch with the first trailer.
She needed to develop through the trilogy otherwise if she's all powerful from the start the First Order isn't much of a threat.
The Star Wars sequel trilogy is a prime example of how not to do a series of movies. The first one was always going to do well which probably meant they thought they could just slap Star Wars on it. Each move made less money than the previous one. The last one may have struggled to break even.
They had no plans for the 3 movies. The director for the second one was working on his movie when the first hadn't come out and was more interested in upsetting people. He killed off what should have been the main bad guy for the series 3/4's of the way through the 2nd movie leaving them screwed for the 3rd movie. The last movies they had to spend time retconning his movie and doing most of a trilogy in one movie.
Rey should have been killed in the throne scene if you look at the mistakes they made in the choreography. One of the guards had her dead to writes so they had to edit out his weapon or arm.
That trilogy is an example of not having someone in charge overall, bad writing, you name a mistake they made it.
Ahsoka I was keen on even after their other series being terrible. Ahsoka is a great character from the animated series. Gone from hated by the audience to loved as she has gone on a journey of growth which is part of good story telling. Add to that an interesting character from the extended universe in Thrawn and they had the building blocks for an interesting setup for that timeline. They wrote Ahsoka too slow and didn't hit the mark. Thrawn an interesting character who should be intelligent they couldn't write for.
While I liked Weaver in the Alien movies, I loved her in the Star Trek parody film with Tim Allen and Allan Rickman, Galaxy Quest from the late nineties. During the original Star Trek series, they wanted to do a scene where Kirk and other Enterprise crew were fighting a “rock monster” but it proved to hard. But, because of advancements in Special Effects, they included it in Galaxy Quest. I went to see the film with a friend who latter went on to do animation for Huhu Studios and on LOTR and some of the Transformers movies for Peter Jackson. He’s also worked on the Avatar movies.
He was geeking out at the inside jokes during Galaxy Quest.
Return of the Jedi came out over 40 years ago now.
The Star Wars franchise has been shit ever since.
You can blame the sequel chick, but the prequels were shit way before she ever came on the scene.
It's just been a repititive, poorly written series since 1983, and even ROTJ wasn't that great.
The Star Wars franchise has been shit ever since.
You can blame the sequel chick, but the prequels were shit way before she ever came on the scene.
It's just been a repititive, poorly written series since 1983, and even ROTJ wasn't that great.
Good read bro. Your Star Wars knowledge is much stronger in the ways of the force than mine.
Uh oh, I agree with pretty much all what you're saying, but incoming rant regardless....*takes deep breath*
The lack of a cohesive plan for the three films was the thing that killed it from the start. How you actually take a billion dollar franchise and say "three movies, yeah we'll figure it out as we go" is some of the laziest, dumbest shit you'll ever come across.
That aside, I know TFA was a safe way to go about it, BUT I also don't think it was a bad move. Yes it was basically a copy of ANH, but giving current fans a nostalgia trip while also introducing new fans to the basic SW formula isn't necessarily a bad way to go about it.
TLJ is where things went to hell. It was the last SW movie I watched in a movie theatre. Never watched ROS in theatres and only got around to it when it showed up on Disney+. TLJ felt more like an "episode of the week" from a procedural cop show rather than an actual movie. The humour, which was already bad, somehow got worse, both Snoke and Phasma were killed off as well as making Rey go 2/2 against Kylo which pretty much left him dead in the water as any real threat to.....well anything. A film with no credible villain is pointless - hence "Somehow Palpatine has returned".
My biggest gripe with TLJ is what they did to Finn. I cannot recall a character in almost any franchise getting set up and then absolutely botched like this. He didn't even need to be force sensitive like the trailer tried to bait and switch about. The guy was a runaway, an ex-Stormtrooper, that in itself was a unique perspective to explore, but then at the end of TFA when Kylo caught up with Rey and Finn, he flung Rey out of the way and screamed "traitor" at Finn. I love that moment and Driver's delivery was spot on, but whenever I see it now it just frustrates me. Anyway, they then fight with it ending after Kylo slices him open from the back. Finn could have been out looking for revenge, mental scars, maybe having trained in whatever anti-saber stick the troopers used, staying close to Rey but getting caught between his friendship with her and desire for revenge against Kylo. Conflict, drama, high stakes, sign me the fuck up.
Instead - he wakes up fully healed, comic relief, and then spends TLJ going on the most pointless deus ex machina side story that in the end had absolutely zero bearing on the plot. Oof, can feel the frustration building just thinking about it.
Ok, then there's Rey. Right here is a perfect example of "so concerned with making her strong that they forgot to make her interesting". Flaws in characters are a good thing, failing is a good thing, having obstacles seem too much for them and seeing how they grow and overcome them is interesting. Watching a character on a straight upward line of growth is so boring that it's impossible to get invested in the character or story they're involved with.
I've seen people counter the anti-Rey argument with "Luke learnt the force way too quickly too, and he was whiny and annoying". That's fine, I don't argue with that, but the key to a good character is making them A)flawed and more importantly B) Relatably flawed.
The first thing we see Luke do is whine, he then gets frustrated at having to do his chores instead of hang with his friends. He then loses the droid he was supposed to be looking after, tries to fix the issue on his own, gets his ass kicked by a sand person, has to be saved by a barely mobile Kenobi, and then arrives back in home just in time to witness the last family barbeque. That's just the first act of the first film and showed more flaws, relatability, and room for growth than Rey did the entire trilogy. It just made audiences connect with him in a way that Rey never did.
Oh, and Chewie walking passed Leia after Han's death like he's more interested in getting first in the buffet line is pretty much unforgiveable no matter how many times JJ comes out and says he regrets it.
Excuse me, I have some clouds to yell at now.
To be honest a lot of it is recent.
I loved the movies as a kid in the early 80s and remember the hype when Return of the Jedi came out. Other than that they were movies I'd come back to. I'd enjoy but weren't something I'd obsess over.
Mainly due to YouTube and the hype/speculation for the new movies I got into the Extended Universe (EU) which helped with the lore. I also got into the Clone Wars which I initially thought was weird bridging the gap between the movies via an animated series. But once you get past that it is animated it is not a bad watch depending on the story arc. Animation means they can get more out to cover that time period.
I brought an EU book years ago but found it hard to get into. Most of what I have enjoyed is from Timothy Zahn. He did a trilogy that was based 5 years or so after the Return of the Jedi. The bad guy he used from that interested me as he was different. Not a force user but smart. The character (Thrawn) got so popular he has done two other trilogies just for him earlier in his life. I am part way through one series at the moment. Although I read book 3 first, then book 1 via a comic and reading book 2 now. To be honest they aren't interconnected stories so it isn't an issue.
He is the big bad guy they are writing for Ahsoka and the other shows they are doing based after Return of the Jedi. The problem is the writers either don't get the character or can't write for him. His plans fail and then he say it is a success. A good example in the books is he wins a battle while standing next to the enemy on his own Star Destroyer.
I got sucked into a lot of videos which led to some comics. A lot of well written stuff.
The other example of Luke failing is in Empire Strikes Back. He leaves Yoda instead of finishing his training. He loses to Vader and also loses his hand.
He also put down his lightsaber instead of fighting in Return of the Jedi. That helped turn Vader back seeing the Emperor attacking his son. Luke Skywalker as a character has a lot of great character traits after the journey he went through. If they gave fans a Luke Skywalker in a similar place physically to Obiwan when we first meet him it would of worked better. An old wise Jedi past his prime.
To me the trilogy should of had him mentoring someone/people and going on one last adventure. The person that it should have ended with back at the old Skywalker farm should have been Luke. Have him return home after 40 years and close it with him looking out at the two moons.
The other big mistake they made is not having Luke, Han and Leia in the same scene. Should also include Chewbacca, R2D2 and C3PO in that. Sure that can be deemed as fan service but Disney and Lucasfilm made a big deal about bringing them back and didn't really use them.
I used to be able to watch The Force Awakens and enjoy it. After The Last Jedi is is a bit harder. I don't think I have seen The Last Jedi a second time I haven't seen The Rise of Skywalker. Now if I ever watch The Force Awakens I treat it as a one off movie.
Worried2Death
Contributor
Was this on YouTube?
Worried2Death
Contributor
Yeah but these are comic book action movies that are basically cartoons, wouldn't expect much character depth or nuance from big budget studios, basically just marketing exercises to sell merch.
Beastmode
Contributor
I take your Finn and replace him with John Snow. Not only was he robbed of the 7 Kingdoms, the writers didn’t even give him the dignity of fighting the White Walkers. Absolutely the worse ending to what should have been the greatest tv series ever made..
Finn was simply a trooper. Fucker should be happy he lived and got to use a light saber….
The first 5-6 seasons were a great slow build. Get to the last two seasons and it was like the show runners wanted out as they were rumoured for a Star Wars trilogy. Everything then went into fast forward. Travel that took episodes or an entire season in the earlier seasons was happening within episodes.
The battle with the White Walkers could have been extended out to a full season instead of a build up and a one episode battle then move on to the battle down south.
It was building really well with Jon Snow running into the White Walkers or the Night King and having to explain the danger to everyone. Some of those scenes when they just escaped when they were past the wall and met the White Walkers was epic. Or when they brought down one of the dragons.
They also made a big deal on his heritage which didn't feel like it was paid off too well.
After the last season of Game of Thrones I wasn't too keen on more Westeros. It took a while to get into House of the Dragon. I'm looking forward to the next season as it should be war with a lot of dragons.
