Even a running 5/8 with a take control halfback that calls all the shots with confidence, right now its like "I think its your turn I went last time"
Staff Ivan Cleary
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Until our forwards start competing, we haven't a show. Price is carrying our starting pack, and carrying it in a big way. He's an awesome player in brilliant form, but he cannot be left to work alone, especially during the Origin period when he's going to have some quiet club games. Funnily enough, he's still invariably our best forward by whatever stretch one could measure. This team only looked like we even knew where the advantage line was once Pricey began to work with Evarn and Sam Rapira, and we did manage some momentum and we were bending the Parramatta pack. Taking Wiki out, we need another player in the mix somewhere, a big man with a bit of mobility to cover front and back rows given Evarn or Sam would be starting. I look over our roster...he isn't there. Something in me is wanting Richard Villasanti back, and that really worries me.
Wai's a great hole runner, we'll need to use him on the edges hitting the ball at pace, and use him for long periods eventually, playing 65+ minute spells that he was when we saw him at his peak in 2005. I see Wairangi in that Number 11 very, very shortly, when he gets some match fitness. At least he offers something slightly different in our backrow; some pace, footwork, a fend, some ability to find holes. He did slip through early in the game. Anderson, Swann and Luck are perhaps, when working together, the most useless attacking backrow in the last decade. Hell, the Souths backrow of 2002 with Adam Muir, Luke Stuart and Shane Rigon were better, and that team won three games.
Witt's performance was...Witt's performance wasn't. I'm still convinced Jerome's our five-eighth, but he needs an effective pack and, well, whoever the halfback. There's the brilliant, ad-hoc Lance Hohaia that will pull huge plays from nowhere to get this team moving and instill some belief. There's also greedy, boneheaded ad-hoc Lance Hohaia and his arsenal of early, non threatening, well-covered kicks. When he passes, runs, kicks intelligently...he's quite a player. Whether that makes him a worthy halfback or not, I don't know. I guess some greediness is better than uselessness.
Frig, even Hame Lauaki can strike a bit of fear into the opposition, and he's got a mean fend. Maybe Sonny Fai just needs a run, because right now, we need something and Louis Anderson is losing brain cells like he's being pummelled by Mohammad Ali. The chemistry in this team just isn't right - I worry that it won't be right anytime soon.
Wai's a great hole runner, we'll need to use him on the edges hitting the ball at pace, and use him for long periods eventually, playing 65+ minute spells that he was when we saw him at his peak in 2005. I see Wairangi in that Number 11 very, very shortly, when he gets some match fitness. At least he offers something slightly different in our backrow; some pace, footwork, a fend, some ability to find holes. He did slip through early in the game. Anderson, Swann and Luck are perhaps, when working together, the most useless attacking backrow in the last decade. Hell, the Souths backrow of 2002 with Adam Muir, Luke Stuart and Shane Rigon were better, and that team won three games.
Witt's performance was...Witt's performance wasn't. I'm still convinced Jerome's our five-eighth, but he needs an effective pack and, well, whoever the halfback. There's the brilliant, ad-hoc Lance Hohaia that will pull huge plays from nowhere to get this team moving and instill some belief. There's also greedy, boneheaded ad-hoc Lance Hohaia and his arsenal of early, non threatening, well-covered kicks. When he passes, runs, kicks intelligently...he's quite a player. Whether that makes him a worthy halfback or not, I don't know. I guess some greediness is better than uselessness.
Frig, even Hame Lauaki can strike a bit of fear into the opposition, and he's got a mean fend. Maybe Sonny Fai just needs a run, because right now, we need something and Louis Anderson is losing brain cells like he's being pummelled by Mohammad Ali. The chemistry in this team just isn't right - I worry that it won't be right anytime soon.
I totally disagree about Louie hes no dumber than hes ever been lol.
Koopu I see the same way a few games and he should be hitting holes again, but who will pass him the ball?
I'll get shot for this but...despite things not happening at all for us, I trust they know what they are doing. Sure it isn't always the best solution they come up with and quite frankly I don't always agree but I've got my trust in them no matter what
Our backrow is terrible. From memory when was the last time a Warriors back rower broke the line, or even a single tackle? Compare that to Watmough, Bird, Gallen, Stewart, Thompson, Johnson, Hoffman, who all back up their props with regular 100+ metre games, bend the line back creating space for the halves and outside backs.
Yes we're too australianised, and on top of that with the exception of Price and McKinnon our Australians are second rate cast offs. We've worked so hard on building depth we've sacrificed individual talent that you sometimes need to win games when the team isn't at its best. The Warriors can't win when they're not at their best and who cares about depth when the players you bring in are just as mediocre as the ones they're replacing?
Either we bring in fresh faces and build for the future, or we rotate the same old style of players we've been going with all season.
Yes we're too australianised, and on top of that with the exception of Price and McKinnon our Australians are second rate cast offs. We've worked so hard on building depth we've sacrificed individual talent that you sometimes need to win games when the team isn't at its best. The Warriors can't win when they're not at their best and who cares about depth when the players you bring in are just as mediocre as the ones they're replacing?
Either we bring in fresh faces and build for the future, or we rotate the same old style of players we've been going with all season.
Just another fault, and I never thought I'd say this about a Warriors side, but do we lack size? Our forwards aren't that big. Sure guys like Swann and Anderson are tall, but they're not built like Watmough, Gallen etc.
In relation to Ivan the only thing you could critise him on is the signing/retention of players but does he even have a major say on that? If you purely judge him on working with with the players we've got he's not doing that bad of a job, we only have 2 stars in our team, Ruben & Steve but with Ruben playing almost parylised what players do we have left that could be called stars? We have a very, very average roster & i don't know whether Ivan's to blame for that, i can't forget what he did last year with almost the same players, he got them over the -4 & normally would've made the finals, he turned rookies into shining lights & got average players playing great. Tonights coaches conference was one of the hardest i've ever watched, Ivan was absoloutly shattered so he cares a great deal about the team. I'm still sure he's a good coach & have no doubts with a different roster he would be coaching a top 4 team. I think whoever does sign players really has a massive job on their hands this year, we are obviously missing players from last year they thought we wouldn't miss so some of these gaping holes in our team must be filled. I agree with the people that say signing Brent Tate wouldn't solve our problems but signing 2 or 3 players of his callibare would certinly be a start. We have to stop signing mediocore players because it is killing our team, if we're having trouble financially it would just be better to sign a group of talented NZ youth & slowly pump them through, i'm sure Ivan could develop them.
Another strange thing about this season has been the lack of debutents, i remember last year Ivan saying this club was a "youth & development club" & thats why we were not not going to go chasing any big signatures but the only person to debut this year has been a 27 yr old workoholic 2nd rower. I think this club feeds off having fresh young talent in the team & our most successfull years prove that to be true so if we are a development club why havn't we debuted any youngsters this year? I really think some fresh talent, raw or not would benifit this team greatly!!
If we get to round twenty and have no way to make the finals i reakon cleary needs to come on here and take a team that we all beleive would be good. Out there and will nver happen but that would be mint. might prove us right. Might shut us up. Be good experiment. We all vote on who should be where and who plays and the favourite team line up plays the last few games. Be innovative. And if it doesnt count for anything what is the harm.
It sounds good but we cant even agree on here so there would still be some doubts, unless that team ran undefeated.
It's a thought no doubt, but we hardly agree on what lineup we want! LMAO. Well some times we do but in our minds we have our own visions of what the team should be. Again thou nice thought.
That to me would be Ivan admitting he has no idea to team selections which I doubt any first grade coach would ever do.
The Bronco:s have been wooden spoon favourites but the turned their game around so can the Warriors, just wait and see. have faith///
Please dont grade us against a NRL legend team Were not even close to the Baby Broncos NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE.
Dear My Cleary,
In our past four games we have been made to work harder by our opposition and our own silly mistakes. Frustration from being behind on the scoreboard and the lack of possession is giving the opposition 2nd and third chances at scoring and they have been succeeding in that dept.
What can we do ?
As you said in your interview “I still think players are giving their 100%†which is correct but sooner or later FATIGUE will get the better of you especially in the second half of games where we are falling off our perch.
When you look at some of the stats (not a big fan myself) you are right in saying players are still giving their all. I think that in the past four losing games Luck and Swann have done as much as they can. With both players tackling like possessed cats and but their at a cost of an increased error count rate.
LUCK SWANN
Tackles Meters Tackles Meters
Avg/Pv 4 42.25 63 29.25 66
Our front rowers are doing more work tackling in the past four games and that is effecting their meters in a game.
PRICE WIKI
Tackles Meters Tackles Meters
Avg/Per Gm 27.4 174.8 25.7 95.1
Avg/Prev 4 35.3 163.0 29.5 76.3
Difference +7.9 -11.8 +3.8 -18.9
Overall we are making far more tackles than our opposition .... gaining far less meters ... making considerable more errors and mis-tackles.
Tackles Meters Errors Mis Tacks Penalties
Eels +131 -328 +7 +19 -1
Tigers +93 -284 +5 +7 -5
Knights -3 -72 +1 +12 +1
Sharks +122 -307 -2 +16 -2
Side effects from constant defending
- The power and pace when attacking the opposition
- The players awareness in defense and attack
- Ball rentension
- Tackle executoion
When you compare the games where we have won and lost and take a look on how we’ve scored you can see the differences in the way we play. When we’ve lost we have scored from individual tries and from opponents errors. We cant count on the opposition making errors. But when we’ve won, tries have come first from momentum in our forwards and secondly, injection of our little pacey men working in tandom e.g. Rovelli, Witt, Hohaia, Fein and Gatis.
I think it’s just tidying up a few areas of the Warriors game and just playing smarter.
What to do?
Play the game down there end of the field and kick early in the count (tackle 3) 40/20??. Once you kick early in the count a couple of times their winger will be dropping back sooner and creating gaps in attack when we go wide. Also their kick return is not as effective. I saw against the Eels last weekend we actually did a cut out pass in the back line and made some decent meters aswell which was good. So VARIATION in gameplay is essential. Play the game down there end of the field … long range tries are a rarity and our defense / cover has been good as of late.
Too many times the Warriors playmakers have been PREDICTABLE e.g. forwards hit it up 4 tackles and kick on the last. Kicking earlier in the count will guarantee a better kick because the opposition wont be expecting it and the forwards work rate would be lessened. Also the positional play of the oppo back three wont be as prepared as on tackle 5 and it will also minimize oppo dummy half pressure on the kicker. Always going for touch with the kicks will give the Warriors forwards a breather and also time to set our defense. We got to do this in the second half of the game no more kick returns. Slow down the game … fein an injury to stall the game I don’t care just break the momentum of the opposition.
The backs must take some PRESSURE off the forwards and give them a breather. Run the first three out when pinned in there own quarter and kick early. It should be INGRAINED into there psyche that they ALWAYS do that. The backs are always the first players to reach the ball from an opposition kick and a forward shouldn’t touch the ball until the 3rd/4th play.
The Opposition always up the ante when the Warriors try and run it out from there quarter. That is where the “little men†should be invovled the most because of the freashness and speed. Backs should work in tandom with each other so they e.g. dummy half trails ball receiver in case of half break/, drop ball and tackle support (gang tackles). Pair up in practice and know each other inside out. Backs aren’t commonly subbed off as forwards so combinations can be set.
When on Attack!
First in foremost hold the PILL …. BALL RETENTION is critical !! In our past four games we lacked possession of the ball and what we did of the ball when we were in the oppositions 20 line was terrible. The halfback/stand off have to scream at the players, bark orders what they want so COMMUNICATION is the key. If a kick is in the pipeline have some way of telling the players on the outside wot your doing so there are chasers there. A lot of times Rovelli has chipped in goal to no one … execution of the kick was perfect but the players outside them didn’t know what was going on. Ropati is not a communicator and he’s not a standoff.
All this comes with practice, practice, practice of set plays. The EXECUTION of set plays have been poor because the warriors have been defending so much lately they get gittery when they are on attack. Its like when they get the ball “oh jesus wot do we do with this†so all their practice during the week goes out the window. Fatigue inhibits decision making aswell.
KEEP IT SIMPLE nothing too flash … minimal amount of passing, decoy runners. Ropati in the centres would be devastating if given a half gap 10m out with his ability to get outside his man. We have scored a lot of tries 10m out during the season from simple practiced moves and Pricey, Wiki, Koopu , Mannering and Ervan T have the power to score in a tackle.
BE PATIENT you don’t have to scored off every tackle / every set of six. Drum it into the half back/stand off because they are the key decision makers on each play. If nothing looks obvious always focus on ball retention by kicking in goal and getting the ball back starting again. Too many errors have come from the players forcing the pass on the last.
I think our forwards defensive WORKRATE has been very good in the last four games pending the circumstances. But I think our backs defensive display has been very average. Just basic decision on when to come in and help the centre has resulted in many tries during the season. The wingers should stay on their opposing winger irrespective on what happens inside them. Let the centre and the cover defense do their jobs. Have faith in your own team mates.
So who to play?
1. Mckinnon
2. Crocket
5. Ah Van
3. Martin (inside)
4. Ropati (outside)
If you were to split them I would put Crocket with Martin a chip through looks a good option with Crockets speed. Mckinnon has been a great support player let him keep doing that.
7. Witt
6. Rovelli
This is our BIGGEST problem changing the bloody halfs everytime something goes wronge … Rovelli has signed a longterm deal with the Warriors so give him consistent time on the field and Witt has proven he has the potential at Manly too give them time to gell . Hohaia is a backup and always will be a backup he had ampel amount of chances last year. Keep them together for at least 3 games win or lose and let the players get use to them in playing situations. Ropati is not a playmaker just like Sione F. So many times Ropati has run to the line by himself with no support asnd taking the tackle when he should be directly play!!. Stop churning through the playing roster … and playing people out of position.
13. Luck
12. Swann
11. Mannering
I think Mannering should move into the forwards with Swann and Luck. Koopu off the bench as impact, very tempted to play both but I think Koopu needs more gametime. This change will add more momentum in attack as well as stability in defence. It’s the second half where we are getting killed.
10. Price
9. Fein
8. Rapira
Price is awesome enuff said. If Ruben is injured rest him for a week his numbers in the past two games have dropped considerably. Give him a break but not in PL just a break. We need a consistent prop who can make yardage.
WIKI
Tackles Meters
Eels 27 31
Tigers 34 51
Feins numbers in tackling have gone through the roof but his yardage has suffered. We need him to run more. So many times the Warriors player hitting the ball up has been gang tackled and driven back because there is no other runners. If Fein sometimes runs out from dummy half and off loads then he may commit one tackler to him thus increasing chance of a line break.
Rapira is the only other option for Prop still has good go forward and defense.
14. Lauaki
15. Anderson
16. Ervan
17. Hohaia
Hohaia on the bench for impact and cover for the backs. I thought his defence last week was awesome and he could add a spark in the 2nd half if subbed on for Fein. Ervan has been great in yardage for what little time he has on the field. Anderson shouldve been kicked back to PL but I see no other alternative just hope for no more stupid penalties. I’m cagey about Lauaki because of his lack defense but we need him in attack but then again Gatis is an option.
Why does every other NRL break there losing streak with the Warriors?
I’ve been so bloody frustrated this past couple of weeks …. We couldvre beaten the Sharks, Tigers and Newcastle if we only played smarter.
I feel kinda silly writing this but it’s good therapy.
Your thoughts
Hoani
In our past four games we have been made to work harder by our opposition and our own silly mistakes. Frustration from being behind on the scoreboard and the lack of possession is giving the opposition 2nd and third chances at scoring and they have been succeeding in that dept.
What can we do ?
As you said in your interview “I still think players are giving their 100%†which is correct but sooner or later FATIGUE will get the better of you especially in the second half of games where we are falling off our perch.
When you look at some of the stats (not a big fan myself) you are right in saying players are still giving their all. I think that in the past four losing games Luck and Swann have done as much as they can. With both players tackling like possessed cats and but their at a cost of an increased error count rate.
LUCK SWANN
Tackles Meters Tackles Meters
Avg/Pv 4 42.25 63 29.25 66
Our front rowers are doing more work tackling in the past four games and that is effecting their meters in a game.
PRICE WIKI
Tackles Meters Tackles Meters
Avg/Per Gm 27.4 174.8 25.7 95.1
Avg/Prev 4 35.3 163.0 29.5 76.3
Difference +7.9 -11.8 +3.8 -18.9
Overall we are making far more tackles than our opposition .... gaining far less meters ... making considerable more errors and mis-tackles.
Tackles Meters Errors Mis Tacks Penalties
Eels +131 -328 +7 +19 -1
Tigers +93 -284 +5 +7 -5
Knights -3 -72 +1 +12 +1
Sharks +122 -307 -2 +16 -2
Side effects from constant defending
- The power and pace when attacking the opposition
- The players awareness in defense and attack
- Ball rentension
- Tackle executoion
When you compare the games where we have won and lost and take a look on how we’ve scored you can see the differences in the way we play. When we’ve lost we have scored from individual tries and from opponents errors. We cant count on the opposition making errors. But when we’ve won, tries have come first from momentum in our forwards and secondly, injection of our little pacey men working in tandom e.g. Rovelli, Witt, Hohaia, Fein and Gatis.
I think it’s just tidying up a few areas of the Warriors game and just playing smarter.
What to do?
Play the game down there end of the field and kick early in the count (tackle 3) 40/20??. Once you kick early in the count a couple of times their winger will be dropping back sooner and creating gaps in attack when we go wide. Also their kick return is not as effective. I saw against the Eels last weekend we actually did a cut out pass in the back line and made some decent meters aswell which was good. So VARIATION in gameplay is essential. Play the game down there end of the field … long range tries are a rarity and our defense / cover has been good as of late.
Too many times the Warriors playmakers have been PREDICTABLE e.g. forwards hit it up 4 tackles and kick on the last. Kicking earlier in the count will guarantee a better kick because the opposition wont be expecting it and the forwards work rate would be lessened. Also the positional play of the oppo back three wont be as prepared as on tackle 5 and it will also minimize oppo dummy half pressure on the kicker. Always going for touch with the kicks will give the Warriors forwards a breather and also time to set our defense. We got to do this in the second half of the game no more kick returns. Slow down the game … fein an injury to stall the game I don’t care just break the momentum of the opposition.
The backs must take some PRESSURE off the forwards and give them a breather. Run the first three out when pinned in there own quarter and kick early. It should be INGRAINED into there psyche that they ALWAYS do that. The backs are always the first players to reach the ball from an opposition kick and a forward shouldn’t touch the ball until the 3rd/4th play.
The Opposition always up the ante when the Warriors try and run it out from there quarter. That is where the “little men†should be invovled the most because of the freashness and speed. Backs should work in tandom with each other so they e.g. dummy half trails ball receiver in case of half break/, drop ball and tackle support (gang tackles). Pair up in practice and know each other inside out. Backs aren’t commonly subbed off as forwards so combinations can be set.
When on Attack!
First in foremost hold the PILL …. BALL RETENTION is critical !! In our past four games we lacked possession of the ball and what we did of the ball when we were in the oppositions 20 line was terrible. The halfback/stand off have to scream at the players, bark orders what they want so COMMUNICATION is the key. If a kick is in the pipeline have some way of telling the players on the outside wot your doing so there are chasers there. A lot of times Rovelli has chipped in goal to no one … execution of the kick was perfect but the players outside them didn’t know what was going on. Ropati is not a communicator and he’s not a standoff.
All this comes with practice, practice, practice of set plays. The EXECUTION of set plays have been poor because the warriors have been defending so much lately they get gittery when they are on attack. Its like when they get the ball “oh jesus wot do we do with this†so all their practice during the week goes out the window. Fatigue inhibits decision making aswell.
KEEP IT SIMPLE nothing too flash … minimal amount of passing, decoy runners. Ropati in the centres would be devastating if given a half gap 10m out with his ability to get outside his man. We have scored a lot of tries 10m out during the season from simple practiced moves and Pricey, Wiki, Koopu , Mannering and Ervan T have the power to score in a tackle.
BE PATIENT you don’t have to scored off every tackle / every set of six. Drum it into the half back/stand off because they are the key decision makers on each play. If nothing looks obvious always focus on ball retention by kicking in goal and getting the ball back starting again. Too many errors have come from the players forcing the pass on the last.
I think our forwards defensive WORKRATE has been very good in the last four games pending the circumstances. But I think our backs defensive display has been very average. Just basic decision on when to come in and help the centre has resulted in many tries during the season. The wingers should stay on their opposing winger irrespective on what happens inside them. Let the centre and the cover defense do their jobs. Have faith in your own team mates.
So who to play?
1. Mckinnon
2. Crocket
5. Ah Van
3. Martin (inside)
4. Ropati (outside)
If you were to split them I would put Crocket with Martin a chip through looks a good option with Crockets speed. Mckinnon has been a great support player let him keep doing that.
7. Witt
6. Rovelli
This is our BIGGEST problem changing the bloody halfs everytime something goes wronge … Rovelli has signed a longterm deal with the Warriors so give him consistent time on the field and Witt has proven he has the potential at Manly too give them time to gell . Hohaia is a backup and always will be a backup he had ampel amount of chances last year. Keep them together for at least 3 games win or lose and let the players get use to them in playing situations. Ropati is not a playmaker just like Sione F. So many times Ropati has run to the line by himself with no support asnd taking the tackle when he should be directly play!!. Stop churning through the playing roster … and playing people out of position.
13. Luck
12. Swann
11. Mannering
I think Mannering should move into the forwards with Swann and Luck. Koopu off the bench as impact, very tempted to play both but I think Koopu needs more gametime. This change will add more momentum in attack as well as stability in defence. It’s the second half where we are getting killed.
10. Price
9. Fein
8. Rapira
Price is awesome enuff said. If Ruben is injured rest him for a week his numbers in the past two games have dropped considerably. Give him a break but not in PL just a break. We need a consistent prop who can make yardage.
WIKI
Tackles Meters
Eels 27 31
Tigers 34 51
Feins numbers in tackling have gone through the roof but his yardage has suffered. We need him to run more. So many times the Warriors player hitting the ball up has been gang tackled and driven back because there is no other runners. If Fein sometimes runs out from dummy half and off loads then he may commit one tackler to him thus increasing chance of a line break.
Rapira is the only other option for Prop still has good go forward and defense.
14. Lauaki
15. Anderson
16. Ervan
17. Hohaia
Hohaia on the bench for impact and cover for the backs. I thought his defence last week was awesome and he could add a spark in the 2nd half if subbed on for Fein. Ervan has been great in yardage for what little time he has on the field. Anderson shouldve been kicked back to PL but I see no other alternative just hope for no more stupid penalties. I’m cagey about Lauaki because of his lack defense but we need him in attack but then again Gatis is an option.
Why does every other NRL break there losing streak with the Warriors?
I’ve been so bloody frustrated this past couple of weeks …. We couldvre beaten the Sharks, Tigers and Newcastle if we only played smarter.
I feel kinda silly writing this but it’s good therapy.
Your thoughts
Hoani
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