Staff Ivan Cleary

razzrillinger

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 8, 2016
1,824
I agree with this, but I never understood why Taylor kept getting first grade jobs. Hasn't had success since his first year at the Eels. Got smacked up by one of his players, must be a sweet talker like our mate Matt Elliott.

Your last statement about value for money, I don't really agree. Packer & Matulino on long term, $600k+ deals each is not good value IMO. Reynolds on his salary is nuts. The guy is a competitor, but no star. McQueen, I don't think he signed him but a definition of wasted cap. Alex Twal is a good pick up, and at bargain basement price Rochow has delivered. Marshall has been OK, not sure how much he is getting though.

In previous years they had Farah, Marshall and even Lawrence on close to if not over $1m and they weren't playing very well or guiding the team off the field by all accounts.

Lowering that high spend and spreading it across more players really lowers risk and is the best model IMO. I'd pay Packer and Matulino $600k each if Woods is on $1m over at the Dogs (or wherever he ends up).

Reynolds hasn't delivered on his pay packet yet.

Corey Thompson has to be the bargain buy of the season for them, he's on the minimum and has been trying his guts out.

They're on the right track and I'm interested to see who they sign for next year after Farah and Marshall ride off into the sunset together.
 
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wizards rage

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 18, 2016
5,064
Tauranga
The Aussies treat Ivan as a super coach.

Nowhere near it. His overall coaching winning record is only 47%. He’s not even average, although has done wonders with poor clubs.

Warriors was his best team with 49% wins
Penrith 45%
Wests 42%
Penrith 2 currently 40%

He’s a great rebuild coach and can make a hopeless team competitive. But it’s a different skill set to inherited a team in a premiership window.
 

JaggedJ

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 19, 2018
3,130
Always said that letting go of Ivan isn't what killed us, it was the boneheaded clueless moves we made in the years after replacing him.

Can rebuild a roster and get them competing every week, but can't seem to go to that next level.
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,751
THe thing with Ivan is that its not his team, he didnt get to pick them or build into a decent preseason with all the hype drama and melodrama of his ditching the tigers.

The fact that the tigers are playing well could well be seen as a complement to him.

If you took out Maloney I think the panthers would kick off better this year.
 
Apr 6, 2019
128
The Aussies treat Ivan as a super coach.

Nowhere near it. His overall coaching winning record is only 47%. He’s not even average, although has done wonders with poor clubs.

Warriors was his best team with 49% wins
Penrith 45%
Wests 42%
Penrith 2 currently 40%

He’s a great rebuild coach and can make a hopeless team competitive. But it’s a different skill set to inherited a team in a premiership window.

he somehow managed to get the warriors to the grand final. he is a super magic miracle coach.
 

snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 12, 2013
10,092
Auckland
Always said that letting go of Ivan isn't what killed us, it was the boneheaded clueless moves we made in the years after replacing him.

Can rebuild a roster and get them competing every week, but can't seem to go to that next level.
It was good for the Warriors to have the stability when he was here instead of changing coaches every few years like we did before and after his tenure.

When it was announced he was moving on I thought it might be a good time for a change, get the players to hear a new voice and a different point of view. Like you stated the decisions after he left were bad and then compounded things.


The one thing about his time here was he knew how to get the best out of what he had. Limitations with some players skill set, depth in the squad, recruiting big names.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
23,329
The way we play now is light years ahead of Cleary's simple kick it to Manu game plan.

Those kicks wrecked Manu by the later part of his career, dude couldn't jump over a beer crate. Imagine if Manu was playing on the end of the 2018 right side players?


Frustratingly all Warriors coaches have duds. Martel was Cleary's, and his freind Inu stinking up the joint with their Pita Hiku defence.

Cleary loved his tackle bots.

Tackle bot and kick it to Manu. Since when will that game plan make you a top four side?
 

snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 12, 2013
10,092
Auckland
Tackle bot and kick it to Manu. Since when will that game plan make you a top four side?
2007 (4th) and 2010 (5th) were pretty decent results.

Cleary was also here the years after we lost Stacey Jones. Can't recall when he left but the hangover after losing such a special player in a position we hadn't traditionally developed would usually have a bit of a hangover period. We needed to recruit and got players who did well but we were disadvantaged compared to the other sides. The guys we recruited usually only had a good year or two or in the case of Fien would do well in one position one year but need to be moved (between halves and dummy half) the following year.

We were also coming off the clubs salary cap cheating. The new management were determined not to cheat the cap or get into cap trouble they were playing $600k or more under the cap. Think back to how much lower the cap was back then and the players salaries at the time that was a maque player or a couple of decent players.

2006-2011 and we only missed the finals in 2006 (started -4 points) and 2009 (tragedy in the off season) is a fair record.
 
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pleatedpantspete

1st Grade Fringe
Oct 9, 2012
345
Gee whizz, I miss ivan cleary a lot.

On a related note for the Ivan Cleary naysayers, Here are some halves currently playing in the top 8.
Nathan Cleary
Adam Reynolds
Cameron Munster
Luke Keary
Jack Wighton
Shaun Johnson
Mitchell Pearce
Mitchell Moses

Here's a bloke who helped take the warriors to the top four as our dominant half:
Grant Rovelli.
 

playdaball

Heritage Member
Apr 23, 2012
2,575
The BIGGEST stuff up since the Warriors kicked off in 1995.

NZ Herald 11/10/21


Early last week, Penrith chief executive Brian Fletcher said coach Ivan Cleary would have a job for life.

After their grand final win over South Sydney, Fletcher was unequivocal.

"I can't ever see Ivan Cleary leaving the place," said Fletcher.

"He's here for as long as he wants to be here."

In the wake of their epic premiership victory, their first since 2003, it could have been seen as an emotional reaction.

But it wasn't.

On an open market, the 50-year-old Cleary would be one of the most in demand NRL coaches, because of his ability to not just win games, but build a club.

With a few exceptions, his Panthers' squad are not a team of stars, especially compared with the Storm and Roosters.

All but three of their 17-man grand final team made their NRL debut at the Panthers and most have been playing together since teenagers.

With their formidable nursery, it's the Penrith way, but it's not easy and takes a unique skill set to first develop, then persevere with local products.

He was the coach that got away, but also the one that could have been brought back, in one of the biggest turning points of the last decade.​


It's a missed opportunity that will haunt the club, at least until they achieve enjoy some success again.

Cleary's stint at Mt Smart from 2006-2011 was a golden period, especially compared with the recent struggles. They reached the finals fours times, highlighted by the 2008 preliminary final and the 2011 grand final.

There were regular season finishes of fourth, fifth, sixth and eighth and 10 playoff games across six years, with a team based around a strong local core.

The Warriors have never been the same since Cleary left, and the reluctance to offer him a longer deal in 2011 has been well documented, even if it remains mystifying in hindsight.


But what is less understood – and often forgotten – is that the Warriors missed a chance to bring Cleary back in 2016, after Andrew McFadden had been sacked as head coach.

Cleary had been acclaimed as the 2014 Dally M coach of the year, after taking Penrith to the preliminary final, before being sacked by Phil Gould in 2015 (Fletcher admitted this week that decision was a mistake).

So he was back on the market.

"I want to coach again," Cleary told the Herald at the time. "I consider myself a career coach and this year has been my first season out of the NRL in the last 25 years [as a player or coach]."

Cleary also re-iterated his strong bond with the Auckland club.

"I loved my time at the Warriors," said Cleary. "It was the start of everything for me and I left with a heavy heart. There was some talk around at the time that I was leaving to go home but that wasn't the case at all. Moving to Penrith was completely the other side of Sydney for me."

It was a unique situation, as Cleary was available and wanted the job, sensing some unfinished business.

Across their history the club has chased big names like Craig Bellamy and Wayne Bennett, but those pursuits never progressed very far.

But in August 2016 the Warriors had Cleary at their fingertips, but chose to ignore his proven credentials, opting instead for Stephen Kearney.

Maybe they didn't want to go back, and it would have been a difficult initial sell, for a fanbase that were desperate for a fresh start.

But it's hard not to wonder where the Warriors would be now.

Cleary spent a decade at Mt Smart, including his time as a player and assistant coach and is a Mt Rushmore type figure, alongside Stacey Jones, Simon Mannering and Shaun Johnson, but it's a shame he didn't get a chance to extend his legacy.
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,751
The BIGGEST stuff up since the Warriors kicked off in 1995.

NZ Herald 11/10/21


Early last week, Penrith chief executive Brian Fletcher said coach Ivan Cleary would have a job for life.

After their grand final win over South Sydney, Fletcher was unequivocal.

"I can't ever see Ivan Cleary leaving the place," said Fletcher.

"He's here for as long as he wants to be here."

In the wake of their epic premiership victory, their first since 2003, it could have been seen as an emotional reaction.

But it wasn't.

On an open market, the 50-year-old Cleary would be one of the most in demand NRL coaches, because of his ability to not just win games, but build a club.

With a few exceptions, his Panthers' squad are not a team of stars, especially compared with the Storm and Roosters.

All but three of their 17-man grand final team made their NRL debut at the Panthers and most have been playing together since teenagers.

With their formidable nursery, it's the Penrith way, but it's not easy and takes a unique skill set to first develop, then persevere with local products.

He was the coach that got away, but also the one that could have been brought back, in one of the biggest turning points of the last decade.​


It's a missed opportunity that will haunt the club, at least until they achieve enjoy some success again.

Cleary's stint at Mt Smart from 2006-2011 was a golden period, especially compared with the recent struggles. They reached the finals fours times, highlighted by the 2008 preliminary final and the 2011 grand final.

There were regular season finishes of fourth, fifth, sixth and eighth and 10 playoff games across six years, with a team based around a strong local core.

The Warriors have never been the same since Cleary left, and the reluctance to offer him a longer deal in 2011 has been well documented, even if it remains mystifying in hindsight.


But what is less understood – and often forgotten – is that the Warriors missed a chance to bring Cleary back in 2016, after Andrew McFadden had been sacked as head coach.

Cleary had been acclaimed as the 2014 Dally M coach of the year, after taking Penrith to the preliminary final, before being sacked by Phil Gould in 2015 (Fletcher admitted this week that decision was a mistake).

So he was back on the market.

"I want to coach again," Cleary told the Herald at the time. "I consider myself a career coach and this year has been my first season out of the NRL in the last 25 years [as a player or coach]."

Cleary also re-iterated his strong bond with the Auckland club.

"I loved my time at the Warriors," said Cleary. "It was the start of everything for me and I left with a heavy heart. There was some talk around at the time that I was leaving to go home but that wasn't the case at all. Moving to Penrith was completely the other side of Sydney for me."

It was a unique situation, as Cleary was available and wanted the job, sensing some unfinished business.

Across their history the club has chased big names like Craig Bellamy and Wayne Bennett, but those pursuits never progressed very far.

But in August 2016 the Warriors had Cleary at their fingertips, but chose to ignore his proven credentials, opting instead for Stephen Kearney.

Maybe they didn't want to go back, and it would have been a difficult initial sell, for a fanbase that were desperate for a fresh start.

But it's hard not to wonder where the Warriors would be now.

Cleary spent a decade at Mt Smart, including his time as a player and assistant coach and is a Mt Rushmore type figure, alongside Stacey Jones, Simon Mannering and Shaun Johnson, but it's a shame he didn't get a chance to extend his legacy.
now i know your just trying to make me cry
 

snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 12, 2013
10,092
Auckland
I wonder if whoever wrote this had just watched the Shaun Johnson interview where he says he still thinks about how different things could’ve been if the club had stuck with Ivan.
You get that sometimes when you read these articles. Either a video or tweet posted on here or hey we had that discussion.🤔

It would be a good series for some threads over the off season like Marvel's What If series.

Expand your thoughts on what would of happened.
What if Cleary stayed?
What if the Warriors won the premiership in 2002?
What if the Warriors won the premiership in 2011?
What if the Warriors didn't get caught cheating the cap and docked 2 points in 2006?
What if the Warriors didn't get docked 2 points for a interchange violation in 1995?
 

DavidMcKay1974

Warriors 1st Grader
Aug 28, 2013
3,407
You get that sometimes when you read these articles. Either a video or tweet posted on here or hey we had that discussion.🤔

It would be a good series for some threads over the off season like Marvel's What If series.

Expand your thoughts on what would of happened.
What if Cleary stayed?
What if the Warriors won the premiership in 2002?
What if the Warriors won the premiership in 2011?
What if the Warriors didn't get caught cheating the cap and docked 2 points in 2006?
What if the Warriors didn't get docked 2 points for a interchange violation in 1995?
What if Cleary stayed? - We would have won at least one premiership if not 2 or 3 after

What if the Warriors won the premiership in 2002? We would have won it again a few years later

What if the Warriors won the premiership in 2011? We would have won it again a few years later

What if the Warriors didn't get caught cheating the cap and docked 2 points in 2006? We would have made the finals and made a statement.


What if the Warriors didn't get docked 2 points for a interchange violation in 1995? We would have made the finals and made a statement saying the Warriors are here to play and not to be made fun of.
 

mrblonde

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 14, 2012
4,113
Auckland
You get that sometimes when you read these articles. Either a video or tweet posted on here or hey we had that discussion.🤔

It would be a good series for some threads over the off season like Marvel's What If series.

Expand your thoughts on what would of happened.
What if Cleary stayed?
What if the Warriors won the premiership in 2002?
What if the Warriors won the premiership in 2011?
What if the Warriors didn't get caught cheating the cap and docked 2 points in 2006?
What if the Warriors didn't get docked 2 points for a interchange violation in 1995?
Gonna be that person..

We got docked 4 points in 2006. Sorry.

Anyway:
1995. We would have made the finals in 8th (overtaking the North Sydney Bears) and dropped out in the first weekend after being beaten by the Newcastle Knights.

If we'd won the premiership in 2002, we would probably never have had Cleary. Anderson would have been signed for life, Kemp would have probably taken over. Maybe Jones would have eventually taken the hot seat? But. We'd still have had Mick Watson as CEO, so some of the dumb things that happened in 2003-4 (rumours the players got too pleased with themselves and walked around like they'd made it..., the Ali Fuckup... etc) would still have happened...

Without the 4 point deduction in 2006, it's statistically finals time again, but I strongly believe the team played so well in 2006 because of that deduction. If the team play the season thinking "we can do this!", maybe they don't...

If the Warriors had won the premiership in 2011, Ivan would have our knives removed from his back until about, oooh, Rd 3 of 2012. And then we'd go back to hating the useless Aussie bum... :)
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,327
The problem was not Cleary, it never was.

It was the club and the boneheaded owner, the jersey salesman, combined with some old school Kiwis such as McGahan and I think also Dean Bell who didn't like John Hart and his influence.

To be fair John Hart is not everybody's cup of tea, but to think that Bluey (especially anybody that actually knew the guy) would be a better coach than Ivan with John Hart helping is bordering on psychotic, seriously.

I don't follow the place too closely, but I fear the Broncos are going the same way with old players still living in their dreams running the show.
 

john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
3,447
tauranga
The problem was not Cleary, it never was.

It was the club and the boneheaded owner, the jersey salesman, combined with some old school Kiwis such as McGahan and I think also Dean Bell who didn't like John Hart and his influence.

To be fair John Hart is not everybody's cup of tea, but to think that Bluey (especially anybody that actually knew the guy) would be a better coach than Ivan with John Hart helping is bordering on psychotic, seriously.

I don't follow the place too closely, but I fear the Broncos are going the same way with old players still living in their dreams running the show.
Dont agree with you all the time Bruce but I knew John Hart reasonably well.Played rugby & cricket with him at MRGS.Havent been in touch for many years however he (IMO) bought some stability to the Warriors back room.Was a little strange but when he knew your abilities he would go into bat for you.He was actually a very good wicket keeper .His brother was a good hooker.At the same time iirc was another hooker who was to be an All Black Ron Urlich .My memorising is over for now .Until my next wettie :)
 

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