General Israel Folau

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BiggerD

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Israel Folau is a very good Rugby Player in both codes & is entitled to his "Freedom of Speech"

Israel Folau is also a very devout Christian & because he said something bad about Homosexuals,
does that warrant his banning from NZ

About a year ago people from another mainstream religion where saying bad things about the west.
Yet those from that religion living in both NZ & Australia where not accused of Hate Speech.

What do you guys reckon..??

https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/rugby-union/former-immigration-minister-says-folau-should-be-banned-from-nz/ar-AAvxgFu?ocid=spartanntp

A Former Immigration Minister says Israel Folau should be banned from New Zealand - after the star Aussie Rugby player said gay people would go to hell.

Tuariki Delamere, now a top immigration lawyer, says Folau is a threat to public order and should be denied access to our country.


"I don't believe he's allowed to stand up and express what I term hate speech against homosexuals," Mr Delaware said.

Israel Folau is Australian Rugby's biggest star, a three-time Player of the Year, and is married to netball star Maria Tutaia.

He caused controversy when someone asked him what God's plan is for gay people, and he said "Hell unless they repent their sins and turn to god."

Mr Delamere says under the Immigration Act that's enough to turn him away at the border next time he comes to play rugby here.

"You're not allowed to create a situation where you're creating the threat of public order, or against the public interest," he said.

It's not the first time Folau has made anti-gay comments, and it flies in the face of Rugby Australia's own inclusion policy.

Mr Delamere was inspired to call for a ban after he saw his gay nephew's pain.

"To have public figures stand up and say you're a germ, you're disgusting, you're terrible - that's pretty hurtful."

But Rainbow Youth, which supports queer and gender diverse people in New Zealand, believes banning Folau won't achieve anything.

Rainbow Youth Frances Arns says "I think Israel Folau's comments are affecting New Zealand, regardless of whether he's going to be here, or not."

Qantas, sponsor of Australia's national rugby team the Wallabies, has fired a warning shot saying it's disappointed.

No doubt that will be put to Folau when he meets with his bosses at Australian Rugby soon.
 
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Kestrel84

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Lets keep this simple.

Israel Folau should absolutely not be banned from NZ. Freedom of speech and expression is essential. He is entitled to his opinion.

And we are entitled to hate him for it.

Sweet?
 
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matiunz

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He’s entitled to his opinions and beliefs but that doesn’t mean he has to verbalise them. Something as simple as “my beliefs are my own and private” would have been more appropriate.
 
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Kestrel84

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I get it. But who are we to judge what is right or wrong - i suppose? It is a persons entitlement to speak their mind. However they must be prepared for the same in return. For those that decide to openly judge people, such as Israel Folau, I'm very happy to crush them under the weight of my judgement back.
 
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gREVUS

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I dont see the big issue. I once asked a girlfriend of mine who was a practising Christian, why she was going out with me because im not a christian. She said it was no big deal. I asked her if she believed in all things christian and she said yes, so i asked if she thought I was going to hell and she said yes. its part of her religion and she doesnt question it. It just is.

Israels comments weren't that he was going to send anyone to hell, but that his religious beliefs say that Gay people are going to Hell, probably just like all non christians.
 
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Kestrel84

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I dont see the big issue. I once asked a girlfriend of mine who was a practising Christian, why she was going out with me because im not a christian. She said it was no big deal. I asked her if she believed in all things christian and she said yes, so i asked if she thought I was going to hell and she said yes. its part of her religion and she doesnt question it. It just is.

Israels comments weren't that he was going to send anyone to hell, but that his religious beliefs say that Gay people are going to Hell, probably just like all non christians.
You are right. However it was his decision to reply and say that gay people are going to hell, not the decision of his religion to reply. By replying he is actively partaking in that judgement.
 
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gREVUS

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You are right. However it was his decision to reply and say that gay people are going to hell, not the decision of his religion to reply. By replying he is actively partaking in that judgement.
well if he believes in his religion then the answer shouldnt be a surprise to anyone. To my understanding he is a pretty active christian, but i dont know him personally. I suspect the question was a set up by the media, where they were fishing for an answer they expected and got it.

Personally i think all religion is demented, its a true case of my imaginary man in the sky is better than yours. So when someone is asked for views based on their religion, i have no doubt that their going to say something stupid. the question was what was gods plan for gays. not what was his thoughts on gays.
 
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Kestrel84

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well if he believes in his religion then the answer shouldnt be a surprise to anyone. To my understanding he is a pretty active christian, but i dont know him personally. I suspect the question was a set up by the media, where they were fishing for an answer they expected and got it.

Personally i think all religion is demented, its a true case of my imaginary man in the sky is better than yours. So when someone is asked for views based on their religion, i have no doubt that their going to say something stupid. the question was what was gods plan for gays. not what was his thoughts on gays.
Very good point. It was a trap, one way or another.

I guess I just wanted him to be better than that. I've known many not-half assed christians that are still okay with gay people - so while i'm not a big fan of religion, it's taught me that there are varying (and in my case) acceptable degrees of belief that can adapt to modern life.
 
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surfin

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Just wondering, I think lycra wearing cyclists are the scum of the earth, I don't care if they are gay or straight, omnivore or vegan but they deserve a fate worse than Hell, does that mean I should get my passport revoked? Folau has an opinion like every else, something he is allowed so if you don't want an answer don't ask the question, but I have no doubt the bloke that asked got exactly what he wanted.
 
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Maraea

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Why is a journo asking this guy his thoughts on homosexuality anyway? Its a leading question. It is clear according to the bible that woman was made for man and they are joined as a pair there's no grey area of understanding on that one. Folau has stated his belief straight from the bible its not a personal opinion on his part. An uninformed personal attack is distasteful, but not enough for an uninformed politician to change laws.
 
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Wellington Warrior

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He’s entitled to his opinions and to state them on social media for all to see. Just don’t complain when people rip into you on social media for your narrow view of the world.

Also don’t complain when your bosses rip into you because their sponsors that pay the bills, bail on your sport because they don’t want to be associated with those narrow views.

Simple really.
 
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fanrrior

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Tbh I find it refreshing that he is sticking by views instead of buckling at the social pressure like every other famous person. Maybe I'm not being very empathic but I honestly can't see the class of people he is offending either.

If you are atheistic why would you care that someone thinks you will go to a place you don't believe in? If your denomination of Christianity disagrees with that of Folau, why would you care when you think his denomination is mistaken? And if you do believe in the same denomination as Folau then you should have no right to be offended anyway.

If you are offended at the notion that Folau believes people deserve to be punished for their sexuality, I honestly think you might be misrepresenting him. He says his belief is that it is God's plan for Gays to go to hell unless they repent. If he believes, as many Christians do, that it is not his place to question his God then he isn't passing judgement on their behaviour. From where he is coming from, he is sending a warning that hell awaits those who sin and do not repent in the eyes of God.

Atheists should be able laugh it off. Other types of Christians should find comfort in their understanding of the scripture. Those who believe in such a fate are in agreement with him.

I am neither gay nor Christian so maybe there is something I'm just not getting. Why are people kicking up a fuss?
 
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Off The Bench

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What he said wasn't hateful .
So good on him for staying true an not saying what
People want to hear.
The guys not dumb .He chose not to lie
That is missing in to many people.
A lot of our league boys seem to be Christian they are
Community minded an good role models .They got something's
Sorted .
From what I hear .Gavet,RTS,Ben Henry are some of the nicest guys
An Christians .There is unnecessary bashing of others beliefs .
An articles like this take away from the fact that these are good young
Men .Who will raise their children responsibly .An add to any community
They are involved with..
 
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surfin

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Folau's only mistake was answering the question with the group he was asked to comment on. If he had answered something like As a Christen I believe all sinners will go to Hell. He would have been true to his beliefs, he would have answered the question and all the SJW's that are so outraged and disgusted would have been fucked, because it then came down to them as to decide who he was referring to so it would have been their prejudices not his as to who he meant.
As for the Chiefs rugby player I've never heard of he's welcome to his opinion just like Folau, but again it doesn't mean he's right.

As for sinners going to Hell, Folau is probably heading there as well, because I'd bet his rugby contract he was not saving it for marriage when he hooked up with Maria.

Personally I'm going to Valhalla. Way more interesting Gods.
 
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BiggerD

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Well Folau is welcome back into the NRL , if he wants to come back

https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/rugby-union/nrl-boss-makes-stunning-call-on-folau-future/ar-AAw0AGD?ocid=spartanntp



NRL Chief Executive Officer Todd Greenberg has said the code would welcome back controversial star Israel Folau despite his views on homosexuality.

Folau has caused a media storm of late following his outspoken beliefs as it pertains to the gay community, but Greenberg did not hesitate when asked about the former Melbourne Storm star.

“Yes we would [welcome Folau back], but ultimately that’s a decision for Israel and clubs,” he said.


“But if he wants to play rugby league, there’s a place in rugby league for him.”

Folau is a former star of the NRL having plied his trade at the Storm and the Brisbane Broncos from 2007-10, and would be a hot commodity if he were to return to the league.

While Greenberg didn’t necessarily agree with Folau’s stance on homosexuality, he mentioned the importance of inclusiveness in the NRL.

“Being inclusive starts with everyone having an opportunity to speak,” he said.

“I don’t agree with a lot of people’s views, but that doesn’t make it right or wrong.”

Folau appeared in 91 NRL games, scoring 73 tries, and has spoken about walking away from his contract with the Wallabies in rugby union due to comments made by Rugby Australia boss Raelene Castle.

Greenberg was quizzed by media on whether he would set certain guidelines with the 29-year-old star if he were to return, and he was adamant it would not play out in the public sphere.

“I’d have that conversation with him, but I’d have it between Israel and I.”
 
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Inruin

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Hone Harawira backs Israel Folau's right to speak
19 Apr, 2018 9:09am
4 minutes to read

Hone Harawira. Photo / Northern Advocate

''People have labelled Folau's comments as 'hate speech'. Tuariki Delamare, ex-minister of Immigration said Folau should be banned from coming here, the media here and across the ditch want him booted out of rugby, and the nutters have gone ballistic on social media.

''The funny thing is we pride ourselves on being the heart of the Pacific, having the biggest Polynesian population in the world, and how many Pacific brothers we have playing in our sports teams – but it seems we simply haven't noticed how deeply Christian are lot of them are.

''And when I talk about Christianity, I'm not talking about the new version that changes every month as we add another letter to the LGBTQ parade, or the "enlightened" version that tries to be all things to all people at all times.

''I'm talking about the old school Christianity that the missionaries brought into the Pacific 200 years ago. The fire and brimstone Christianity, the one that tells you the father rules and the mum serves the family, the one that helps elevate the King of Tonga to a level white New Zealand will simply never understand, the one that sees Pacific Island churches scattered all over Auckland, Wellington and other high Pacific population areas in the country, the faith that means so much to Sir Michael Jones, Jason Taumalolo, and the thousands of others sprinkled throughout our sports teams, our communities and even our families.

''I mean did you really not see how Samoa and Tonga all kneeled down together to give thanks to the Lord for allowing them to play so ferociously against one another in the Rugby League World Cup last year? Or how many of them gather to pray with one another after a major rugby match?

''Everybody respects their demonstration of faith, but it seems that no-one wants to acknowledge the reality that comes with that faith – that most of them are believers in an old world Christianity that they believe has served their nations well, their people and their families, and helps bind them together during the tough times - the dawn raids, the low wages, the job dismissals, the name mangling by sports commentators. And yet our Pacific brethren bear it all with a modesty and humility that is positively … Christian.


''Seems it's OK to believe in something as long as we don't ever say it. Yeah I know. Sounds dumb but maybe that's how we can pretend we're all just a little bit closer to God than Israel Folau.

''To Izzy - much love to you brother. Keep the faith, and may the trials and tribulations that you and Maria are going through right now help strengthen your love for one another. It may not be the world I subscribe to but I respect deeply your commitment to your faith and to your world.

''To those of my whanau, my friends and others for whom Israel's words may seem like life has no future, please understand this – your spiritual faith is based on the relationship you have with your own Gods. It is not determined by what Izzy might say, or me, or anyone else. Nor is it determined by what the Bible says either, for the Bible has been used to justify both the greatest acts of kindness and the greatest massacres in human history. Be comfortable with your own gods, be at peace with yourself, know that you are loved and treasured and feted for the special person that you are, and be assured that in the family of humanity you have a place equal to that of everyone else.''

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12035525
 
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matiunz

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Hone Harawira backs Israel Folau's right to speak
19 Apr, 2018 9:09am
4 minutes to read

Hone Harawira. Photo / Northern Advocate

''People have labelled Folau's comments as 'hate speech'. Tuariki Delamare, ex-minister of Immigration said Folau should be banned from coming here, the media here and across the ditch want him booted out of rugby, and the nutters have gone ballistic on social media.

''The funny thing is we pride ourselves on being the heart of the Pacific, having the biggest Polynesian population in the world, and how many Pacific brothers we have playing in our sports teams – but it seems we simply haven't noticed how deeply Christian are lot of them are.

''And when I talk about Christianity, I'm not talking about the new version that changes every month as we add another letter to the LGBTQ parade, or the "enlightened" version that tries to be all things to all people at all times.

''I'm talking about the old school Christianity that the missionaries brought into the Pacific 200 years ago. The fire and brimstone Christianity, the one that tells you the father rules and the mum serves the family, the one that helps elevate the King of Tonga to a level white New Zealand will simply never understand, the one that sees Pacific Island churches scattered all over Auckland, Wellington and other high Pacific population areas in the country, the faith that means so much to Sir Michael Jones, Jason Taumalolo, and the thousands of others sprinkled throughout our sports teams, our communities and even our families.

''I mean did you really not see how Samoa and Tonga all kneeled down together to give thanks to the Lord for allowing them to play so ferociously against one another in the Rugby League World Cup last year? Or how many of them gather to pray with one another after a major rugby match?

''Everybody respects their demonstration of faith, but it seems that no-one wants to acknowledge the reality that comes with that faith – that most of them are believers in an old world Christianity that they believe has served their nations well, their people and their families, and helps bind them together during the tough times - the dawn raids, the low wages, the job dismissals, the name mangling by sports commentators. And yet our Pacific brethren bear it all with a modesty and humility that is positively … Christian.


''Seems it's OK to believe in something as long as we don't ever say it. Yeah I know. Sounds dumb but maybe that's how we can pretend we're all just a little bit closer to God than Israel Folau.

''To Izzy - much love to you brother. Keep the faith, and may the trials and tribulations that you and Maria are going through right now help strengthen your love for one another. It may not be the world I subscribe to but I respect deeply your commitment to your faith and to your world.

''To those of my whanau, my friends and others for whom Israel's words may seem like life has no future, please understand this – your spiritual faith is based on the relationship you have with your own Gods. It is not determined by what Izzy might say, or me, or anyone else. Nor is it determined by what the Bible says either, for the Bible has been used to justify both the greatest acts of kindness and the greatest massacres in human history. Be comfortable with your own gods, be at peace with yourself, know that you are loved and treasured and feted for the special person that you are, and be assured that in the family of humanity you have a place equal to that of everyone else.''

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12035525
Well well well a racist bigot coming out to defend Israel Folau’s stance? Who would’ve thought?!?!
Not sure Izy needs a lesson of hate speech from this guy
 
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Inruin

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Well well well a racist bigot coming out to defend Israel Folau’s stance? Who would’ve thought?!?!
Not sure Izy needs a lesson of hate speech from this guy
indeed, though he does make some good points
 
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tajhay

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And now sacked from his union contract.

 
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