Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
22,108
Yeah, you lost me at “how well the Warriors have done”

How well the warriors have done at what?

Developing talent and not losing them to other clubs you mean? Stacey, Mannering and Manu. That’s about it for our talent pool over the last 20 years... hardly a war chest for anyone to bother crossing the ditch to steal....
Watch the video.

We have lost one player who is going well. That puts us on a par with the Storm and the Roosters.

Every other club has lost several.

The main takeaway from that video is that no single club in the NRL has not lost a good player they should have kept.....that says it all really....lot of angst here about Papalii when that video clearly illustrates the point that it is a fact of life. No one keeps them all...no one. And the Warriors are among the least affected by player releases.

There are also three players in the video who the Warriors gained that are listed as losses by other clubs including the Storm (Tohu Harris Harris).

My post was about Papalii and the overreaction, I said nothing about the Warriors historic lack of depth in previous seasons and therefore the lack of losses.

This is the Papalii thread right?
 
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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
22,108
How many good players have we really lost over the years? Maloney who never really wanted to be here in the first place, Sio Suia Taukeiaho, Laumape who was homesick, Shaun Johnson and Papali’i (who is still too soon to make a definite call on).

Our problem is our player development not player retention.
The video I posted clarified one thing for me.

Taukeiaho initiated the move to the Roosters.

Shaun Johnson tried to black mail management by threatening to play shit for the rest of the season unless they gave him a contract.


Shaun Johnson is the exception that proves the rule, his Warriors iteration spawned a lot of Shark fans hate when he went across and did not get involved.

Johnson from there basically did everything that the Warriors wanted him to for the Sharks and became there best player.

He stopped lackadaisically kicking out penalty kicks over the sideline for a ten meter gain.

He developed a long kicking game that Warriors fans never enjoyed.

He started taking on the line at the Sharks.

The best thing the Warriors did was to not give him a million dollars. It was best for the Warriors and best for the Johnson.

He is the archetypal example of why a Warrior that leaves and plays better eslewhere is the fault of the player and not the Warriors.

Shaun Johnson was a spoiled brat here and toxic for team culture, and he proved that by reinventing his game for the Aussies after he left us.
 
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tajhay

Negative Nancy
Mar 30, 2012
10,447
Sydney
Shaun Johnson tried to black mail management by threatening to play shit for the rest of the season unless they gave him a contract.
hmmm....im not sure why some still believe that...

Anyways im happy for Papali'i. We should all be. Not many Warrior players take a big paycut and sign for around 35-40% of what they were on to challenge themselves further. This is a man who is not happy being content, but driven based on his current form. I really hope he kicks on from here as well. Why that was not realised at the Warriors is open for debate.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
22,108
hmmm....im not sure why some still believe that...

Anyways im happy for Papali'i. We should all be. Not many Warrior players take a big paycut and sign for around 35-40% of what they were on to challenge themselves further. This is a man who is not happy being content, but driven based on his current form. I really hope he kicks on from here as well. Why that was not realised at the Warriors is open for debate.
Well it was published in media that Cameron George said Johnsons response was grossly inappropriate and there were articles about him threatening to throw his toys.

I do not have conclusive proof though to be fair, no one does. What we do know is Johnson rather than take a pay cut at the Warriors went and took a pay cut at the Sharks and played way better for them.
 
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Billy Teets James

Guest
mistake signing him, then prematurely re-signing him for another 3 years .... I mean how stupid can you get CG? It’s not like other clubs were beating down the door trying to steal the guy...

Back on topic.

I didn’t know Isiah was a power lifter as a kid. Looked strong as fuck steam rolling over Josh Papalii over they weekend.

he’s got a huge future...... at Parramatta....
He steam rolled over the top of Payne Haas to score a beauty Playing for us last year as well.
 

fizurg

1st Grade Fringe
May 18, 2012
1,775
hamilton
Well it was published in media that Cameron George said Johnsons response was grossly inappropriate and there were articles about him threatening to throw his toys.

I do not have conclusive proof though to be fair, no one does. What we do know is Johnson rather than take a pay cut at the Warriors went and took a pay cut at the Sharks and played way better for them.

i don’t remember it being like that at all. There were rumours he implied he would do the minimum in an effort to get out of his remaining contract.
we as Warriors fans can’t be too upset about this as we have been happy to convince other players to do the same thing when they were coming here.
you also have to remember that was after the management publicly questioned his value while he was representing NZ in the UK.
 

Billy Teets James

Guest
SK was the right Coach at the time to fix the unfit, undisciplined and underskilled squad we had at the time
Unfit ? He tried to turn Papalii into oversized apple turnover and play him at prop?

Underskilled?? He took whatever skills our players had and told them to lock them up, And throw the key away....Stick to the process guy.... You're going to be robots.
 

Mr Brownstone

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 9, 2014
3,115
The video I posted clarified one thing for me.

Taukeiaho initiated the move to the Roosters.

Shaun Johnson tried to black mail management by threatening to play shit for the rest of the season unless they gave him a contract.


Shaun Johnson is the exception that proves the rule, his Warriors iteration spawned a lot of Shark fans hate when he went across and did not get involved.

Johnson from there basically did everything that the Warriors wanted him to for the Sharks and became there best player.

He stopped lackadaisically kicking out penalty kicks over the sideline for a ten meter gain.

He developed a long kicking game that Warriors fans never enjoyed.

He started taking on the line at the Sharks.

The best thing the Warriors did was to not give him a million dollars. It was best for the Warriors and best for the Johnson.

He is the archetypal example of why a Warrior that leaves and plays better eslewhere is the fault of the player and not the Warriors.

Shaun Johnson was a spoiled brat here and toxic for team culture, and he proved that by reinventing his game for the Aussies after he left us.
There’s a whole lot of confirmation bias going on in that post. If it makes you feel better then go ahead and believe it, however that reads to me as unbalanced nonsense.
 
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Boats n Hoes

1st Grade Fringe
May 14, 2012
1,751

gpred

1st Grade Fringe
Contributor
Sep 23, 2016
1,007
Obviously Papali'i deserves a lot of credit for his successful start to the season but so does Brad Arthur. Ice was always sound defensively but Arthur has unlocked his attacking potential just like he's done with Ma'u, Lane & Matterson in recent years
How are Australian coaches better at unlocking Polynesian talent than New Zealand ones? It's a tough question, but I think if we can answer it honestly it would reveal a lot about what is wrong with our culture.

NZ, by weight of numbers should be the best at understanding and unlocking this massive talent, but instead we are the worst at it :(
 

gpred

1st Grade Fringe
Contributor
Sep 23, 2016
1,007
The All Blacks do it very well, that is the pinnacle of Union. But it starts at schools FULL STOP FULL STOP
OK, so we all (including Aussies) feed off the dregs of the All Blacks, FULL STOP FULL STOP. But then the Aussies do better than us after the FULL STOP. The question is then more how do they do that after the FULL STOP, not before?
 
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brightman

1st Grade Fringe
May 18, 2012
3,738
Auckland
OK, so we all (including Aussies) feed off the dregs of the All Blacks, FULL STOP FULL STOP. But then the Aussies do better than us after the FULL STOP. The question is then more how do they do that after the FULL STOP, not before?
It starts at schools and I'm not talking about grammar. Here in NZ union is predominant and taught in school. From there it is further developed in the club and representative scene through the grades until it becomes professional and a plausible career choice. That's a hell of an education system that captures the greatest numbers of participation through to the end.
In Australia league isn't the dominant sport in schools but it is stronger than union and the education the players receive is comparable to the development pathway union offers here in NZ.

What can/does league have to offer here in NZ that can get the best results?
 

Panther

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 13, 2016
530
Good decision for both parties.

For whatever reasons the club wasnt getting 350k worth out of him.
I don’t really understand why he was on $350k. When you look around the league you can get some established good players for $350k. We seem to over invest in our youth. Giving top 30 spots supposedly to players who aren’t even physically capable is another example. Our youth need to learn to prove themselves year on year to earn the rewards.
 
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Rizzah

Stop Being Shit
Contributor
Apr 18, 2012
4,941
Dunedin, NZ

Learn to run again': The brutal injury, pay cut behind Parra's new cult hero​

Author: Dan Walsh
NRL.com Reporter
Fri 23 Apr 2021, 07:01 AM

Long before Isaiah Papali'i was charging through right-side defences like they were made of rice paper, he had to learn how to run again.
Long before the emerging cult hero with fuzzy wuzzy hair gave Parramatta fans warm and fuzzies – on a bargain deal worth less than $200,000 a year – Papali'i's career was feared to be on the line before it had even started.

'He had to completely learn to run again'​

As one half of the first mother-son combination to play NRL, Papali'i's "pram was always parked on the sidelines" of a rugby league field from the time he could lift his head.
As a 15-year-old, the budding talent who won powerlifting gold medals on the side had the world at his feet.
Until an ugly compound fracture of his leg had prospective NRL clubs fearing he would never truly realise his potential.
In one of footy's famed fate twists, Brisbane – who will do their merry best to contain Papali'i on Friday night – were well and truly ready to sign him seven years ago until the injury, which has been likened to that which ultimately brought former Bronco Jharal Yow Yeh's career to an early end.

papalii-graphic_20210422.jpg

"He had a very bad fracture and a plate put in his ankle," mum Lorina, the former Kiwi Ferns and Warriors second-rower tells NRL.com.
"It was his fibula that was fractured, and there was a plate put in.
"At that time the Broncos were looking at him but they dropped off after the injury, Isaiah had such a hard rehab.
"There was a lot of tears shed because you feel like the dream is over when you're injured in that way.
"He ended up going through a very hard rehab with a great physio, a friend of ours named Michelle Briggs, she was the Kiwi physio for a long time.
"It was six months to a year really where he had to completely learn to run again. It was hard, solid rehab where he had to completely learn how to put trust in that part of his body, the bone had to heal.
"Michelle mentored and counselled him, put him through the whole rehab process to come back from that when we weren't sure he would. She got him through it and got us through it as well."

Twice the player at half the price​

While Briggs got Papali'i out the other side of such a debilitating injury at such a young age, it has been Brad Arthur and Parramatta that have got the best out of him.
Papali'i is understood to have taken a significant, six-figure pay cut in 2021 after signing a two-year Eels deal last October.
He stresses that he and the Warriors "didn't end on bad terms", after he was told midway through last year that he didn't feature in their long-term plans.
Papali'i's salary sacrifice to start over at Parramatta is doubled down by stunning individual numbers to start the season.

The 22-year-old goes into Friday's clash against Brisbane averaging exactly twice the run metres he churned out in 63 games for the Warriors, while his 23 tackle busts this season are just three short of his previous season best – 26 breaks from 23 games in 2019.

"If I want to be in the game for a long time I've got to take those leaps of faith and continue to look for improvement where I can," Papali'i says when asked about his pay cut.
"Coming here has been really enjoyable and hopefully I can keep trotting along.
"This is a simple game. We make it hard on ourselves sometimes, but it really is quite simple, for me anyway.
"Away from the field, it's preparation, my approach to the gym and just repeating it once you know what works.
"Last year was tough for me. That was the first time I've played through that kind of uncertainty around my future.
"But I was still happy playing footy and living out my childhood dream, playing for the Warriors. Even though I didn't have a contract I was still happy.
"We didn't end on bad terms which I'm pretty happy with and that's important to me.
"We just agreed to part ways at the end of 2020, it was pretty mutual. It was time to move on for me to try and find something new."

Signed over the small screen​

In the end, it took just one Zoom call for Arthur to have Papali'i calling Parra home.
He was first scouted for the Warriors system as a teen once his leg had eventually healed, rising as one of the club's brightest young forwards to New Zealand and Samoan Test honours in 2018.
But when the Kiwi outfit made it clear they were targeting a shake-up of their pack, Papali'i remained unsigned right through until the 2020 post-season.
For the nomadic Warriors last season, that meant a final two weeks in hotel quarantine in Auckland after five months away from home.
Which is when Arthur and Eels football manager Mark O'Neill popped up on the Richmond Rovers junior's Zoom screen.

"I was in the middle of my two weeks quarantine, that meeting definitely gave me something to look forward to," Papali'i recalls.
"Fourteen days doesn't sound long but when you're stuck in that room, man you look forward to anything!
"I had Adam Blair [retired Warriors forward] across the hallway from me and we'd talk it through, because I didn't know where I was going to land or where my future was going.
"He was reassuring me, telling me 'it's just the business side of things, you'll find somewhere'.
"We'd time our lunch so we'd open the door at the same time and say hello, then have these chats via text even though he was across the hallway. He was a great help for me.
"As soon as I had the chat with BA and Buckets [O'Neill], Parra was the one for me. It wasn't at the point where I didn't have any other options and I wasn't thinking that way because I'm still only 22.
"And as soon as I signed I knew I was starting all over again and working hard would get me to where I want to be."

Home is where the hard is​

Concern around Papali'i's recovery from that broken leg all those years ago may have been misplaced, or at least that's the sense the longer Lorina talks about her son.

"He's really quite fearless and reckless, always has been," she says.
"He's so competitive, it doesn't matter what the price is for him to win, his body comes second a lot of the time."

Just a touch of pots and kettles, not least apples and trees there.
Lorina herself, after a 16-year career that ended in 2010, came out of retirement eight years later, at age 41, to play in the Warriors' first NRLW side three years ago after all.

"He's just rough and tumble, he'll play through broken bones," Lorina says.
"There was another moment when he was a kid, he was under five and he'd fallen over and kept telling us he had a sore wrist.
"Mum and Dad kept telling him to harden up, it turns out he had a hairline fracture in his wrist and needed to be in a cast, but it didn't slow him down at all.
"He was just the kid that fell off everything but kept going anyway.
"It was a struggle just to get him to wear a mouthguard as a kid, let alone shoulder pads or headgear.
"I just want him to be able to play for a long time and have a long career.
"As a mother you want your son to walk off the field first. But my approach is 'yes please walk off the field in one piece', but I do love to see him roar, because that means he's enjoying his footy.
"And the best way to enjoy it is to win."

While Papali'i takes his rugby league cues from Lorina and husband Jerry, his long-term partner Elle Temu brings plenty of sporting credentials to the party too as a professional netballer in New Zealand.
Her own career was sorted before Papali'i's last season when she signed with the Auckland-based Northern Stars for 2021, leaving the high school sweethearts to confront a relationship that traverses the Tasman.

"I think you always have to make sure to take care of your partner and decisions together," Papali'i says.
"She is just really supportive, which I am grateful for.
"It was pretty tough because she signed in Auckland first so we kind of knew we're going to have to do long distance.
"But it helped her being a sportsperson too and she supported my decision [to sign with Parramatta] 100 per cent and knew that we were chasing a dream, so it's sweet."

With the Australia-New Zealand travel bubble now open, Papali'i's family have already got their tickets booked and a maiden Bankwest Stadium visit locked in for June.
Until then Lorina will continue to compliment Brad Arthur's analysis of her son's game with her own, as she does each and every single week.

"It's been awesome seeing him really enjoying his footy," she says.
"That's all you want as a mum. As a family, we've always loved it. I send him videos and feedback after every game.
"I know Brad Arthur does all his analysis, but we love going over his games together, I'll work out clips and have a chat with him about how he's played. I didn't need to give much feedback after the Raiders game [last weekend].
"We're coming across for a home game in June. The plan is to meet the coach, meet the team and get to see the environment that makes him so happy. We can't wait."

 

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