General Is this the twilight of democracy?

Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
2,502
Ok, what about when she walked out of an interview saying she ‘wasn’t expecting to be grilled for something the governments was doing’… for a bill that she herself introduced… 🤕
I’m not a huge fan either, but that doesn’t mean she’s fair game for made up quotes or lies. She’s quite capable of making herself look like a fool.
 

the borg

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 8, 2015
685
When people discuss forums like these we tend, reasonably, to look at the over arching powers of the State. I do not support that.

What we, and most other Western countries have developed is political classes, these cover all sides of the spectrum. Unlike the past they have not come through business, farming, the law etc. They are solely political, and insulate themselves from the public at large.

They are groomed by the lobby groups of large Corporations, whose sole purpose is profit. They obtain concessions to operate and dredge as much money as they can, usually from the poorest of society. As an example look at where most liquor licences are granted.
Neoliberalism 101 mate..
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
19,974
Comrade Jazzy ??
She isn't abusing the system, just taking advantage of it. Muldoon was a shocker.

The thing is all systems in theory are designed to give the people the power, then some fecker comes along and finds a way around it.

What I gleaned from reading both Anne Applebaum and Fiona Hill is that if you have a disaffected part of the population, for any reason, you have fertile ground for a populist demagogue e.g Muldoon or Trump. All they need is simple answers to complex issues. leave aside the ideas might be total bullshit.

Why I mention Muldoon and Trump in the same sentence is their style was aggressive and divisive. They both loved noisy meetings where they could drown any discord with abuse. Muldoon was brutal on journalists, LBGTs, liberals academics, unions. Yet at the same time he hung out with gangs ffs. He proposed law and order but he was not especially pro police, and the feeling was mutual.

He was just an arsehole, Cindy is nowhere near his league. Just saying like.
 
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Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
5,507
She isn't abusing the system, just taking advantage of it. Muldoon was a shocker.

The thing is all systems in theory are designed to give the people the power, then some fecker comes along and finds a way around it.

What I gleaned from reading both Anne Applebaum and Fiona Hill is that if you have a disaffected part of the population, for any reason, you have fertile ground for a populist demagogue e.g Muldoon or Trump. All they need is simple answers to complex issues. leave aside the ideas might be total bullshit.

Why I mention Muldoon and Trump in the same sentence is their style was aggressive and divisive. They both loved noisy meetings where they could drown any discord with abuse. Muldoon was brutal on journalists, LBGTs, liberals academics, unions. Yet at the same time he hung out with gangs ffs. He proposed law and order but he was not especially pro police, and the feeling was mutual.

He was just an arsehole, Cindy is nowhere near his league. Just saying like.

I was in a lift with Muldoon in the mid 70's, he was small fat little guy, but he had a scary presence about him, hard to describe, he never said a word.
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
19,974
I was in a lift with Muldoon in the mid 70's, he was small fat little guy, but he had a scary presence about him, hard to describe, he never said a word.
There were business leaders who were genuinely scared he would organise a hit on them...true.
He played a good part in the Rocky Horror Show
At the same time speaking loudly against the Homosexual Law Reform Bill, when many of the cast were gay. They couldn't stand the little shite. He was the first example of a politician getting into reality TV in NZ.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
19,974
David McPhail must have earnt a fair bit of coin impersonating him.
Funny thing, apparently Muldoon liked it. With him any publicity was good publicity.

HIs "base" were Robs Mob. People born Before WWII who started work in the 1950s when everybody had a job, money and a house. You couldn't buy much because of import restrictions but as a country we were well off, especially in rural towns like Whangarei and Wanganui.

In 1967 the wool price crashed and caused a minor recession, then the British entry into the EU started to bite.

This was especially so in the rural areas. So people started to get grumpy, jobs went by the wayside, unions got stroppy.

Everybody harked back to the good old days and Muldoon promised it to them. By 1984 the country was almost broke.

One of the worst things he did was National Superannuation. Labour wanted to start a contributory superannuation scheme, just like Kiwisaver is now.

Muldoon figured that wouldn't suit his base, who were with just starting retirement, or getting near. I think that was about 1981 from memory.

So he promised them super based on the average wage from age 60!!! Considering that many were still working it created a wealthy class of Robs Mob voters.

Just a jerk.
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
5,507
I was flatting with a guy in '84 who was really involved in National Party Politicss. When Muldoon announced the election obviously pissed I woke him up, response went from yeah, very funny, to fury when he realised it was true. He knew they were stuffed.

In my lifetime Muldoon was the most socialist Prime Minister, until now.
 

Worried2Death

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 6, 2016
3,506

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