General Is this the twilight of democracy?

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
4,530
Tauranga
Look at the dorks being nominated in the south for National now. The genuine hard working farmers cannot be bothered standing so the guys who need a job are applying.
Joe Farmer would be ripped to shreds by the media now days.

You need media training and years perfecting your communication, hence many now come through after serving as staff of current MP’s.

It’s become a profession and we’re all the poorer for it.
 

bruce

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Sep 1, 2015
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Joe Farmer would be ripped to shreds by the media now days.

You need media training and years perfecting your communication, hence many now come through after serving as staff of current MP’s.

It’s become a profession and we’re all the poorer for it.
Anne Applebaum mentions that.

Funny thing Nancy Pelosi, although from a political family, didn't actually run for office until she was in her 40s and had to be talked into it.

Also the media are morons now. Back in the day what happened on tour stayed on tour, not now, so any person that likes to stay private is out of consideration for starters.

There is way more to the story than that, it is a good book.
 
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Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
5,396
Anne Applebaum mentions that.

Funny thing Nancy Pelosi, although from a political family, didn't actually run for office until she was in her 40s and had to be talked into it.

Also the media are morons now. Back in the day what happened on tour stayed on tour, not now, so any person that likes to stay private is out of consideration for starters.

There is way more to the story than that, it is a good book.

Reporters never made an issue of, or photographed FDR in his wheelchair because (rightly) they believed it was a private matter and nothing to do with his competency as President.

Although in the same time peiod Ludmila Pavlichenko the Soviet female sniper (309 kills) visited the USA during the war female correspondents criticised he uniform dress as being too long and made her look fat.

The role of journalism is to report fairly and truthfully, while holding the powerful to account. That is not happening which is very dangerous to freedom.
 

bruce

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Sep 1, 2015
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Reporters never made an issue of, or photographed FDR in his wheelchair because (rightly) they believed it was a private matter and nothing to do with his competency as President.

Although in the same time peiod Ludmila Pavlichenko the Soviet female sniper (309 kills) visited the USA during the war female correspondents criticised he uniform dress as being too long and made her look fat.

The role of journalism is to report fairly and truthfully, while holding the powerful to account. That is not happening which is very dangerous to freedom.
Lawrence O'Donnell just did a clip on the way politicians handled Gerald Ford after the Saigon pull out. NOBODY criticised him, NOBODY.

When Walter Cronkite criticised US involvement in Vietnam, he did it very diplomatically and politely.

If I recall nobody criticised Jimmy Carter for the Iranian hostage crises either.

These days Biden gets attacked for stuttering and breathing.

The situation with the press and politics in the US has changed dramatically and much for the worse.

Applebaum mentions the press as being an important cog as well.
 
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Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
2,332
My issue with Politics in NZ today is each Party has developed its own political class where from all decisions and candidates are drawn., so we have the likes of Jamie Lee Ross slithering in and out of the halls of power. Every party has them and the List rewards these no talent dickheads. They do not engage with the Public in any meaningful sense and are only listening to Lobby and focus groups.
That’s a true statement but if you look at the types of misdemeanours that lead to sackings, one party leads the way for dodgy dealings. Since 2014 national has overwhelmingly had politicians caught up in money or personal issues relating to other party members. Judith Collins, Maurice Williamson had portfolios taken off them for corruption, Murray McCully had a scandal involving Saudi Arabia, which to be fair is up there with us doing repairs on aircraft’s over there under the current government. Jami Lee Ross and Simon Bridges in public spats, Bridges attacking Ross’s character and Ross attacking a dodgy donation Bridges received. Between leaks and sexual scandals sees Mike Sabin, Todd Barclay, Hamish Walker and Andrew Falloon either sacked or stand down. On the flip side the same time frame sees Claire Curran gone, pretty much a poor politician and a sexual complaint against a labour staff member at a retreat, an idiot in David Clark flouting lockdown rules. Those are just the two major parties. If this political class as you put it is where national draws it’s candidates, it seems like there’s a type of person they’re recruiting- the wrong kind. I agree each party has them, but one party is over represented and as you say, the list rewards them.
 

bruce

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Sep 1, 2015
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I am half way through the book and she hasn't mentioned Trump once. She is talking about Poland and Hungary, but this book is for a Merkin audience.

I don't know whether she thinks people have heard enough about Trump, or, as I will find out, because Poland and Hungary are much further down the path to facism than the US, so make better examples....

... BUT anybody that watches Merkin politics can see the signs there from her book already. They stick out like dogs balls.

Like most academics, and she is academic as well as a journalist, they don't provide one line answers, because that is inaccurate. Academics need to be accurate.

One key point is that populations naturally contain people who like to be told what to do, and don't like to think too much.

They don't like to challenge, or rock the boat. Those are fodder for rising facists.
 
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Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
5,396
I am not PC and this post is not meant to be. PC to me is about hiding the truth, so, now thats' out of the way.

Fascism is the merging of Government and Industry in broad terms. To gain traction it needs someone to blame. As with Jews, now the Muslims it all starts with words. Very quickly people do not see people as individuals, they become 'them' They are not 'us' so why does action taken against 'them' be important to me.

1930's Germany had an advanced, liberal and sophisticated legal system, it was subverted by special courts using a very ordinary word, which is being used today in 'Murica' the word is 'temporary. Once Governments grant themselves extra power they don't hand it back, it is never temporary. Nor is it limited, the German Concentration Camps were modelled on the British ones in the Boer war

I hope I am just being paranoid but here is a quote from Pastor Niemoller, a German victim of the Nazis

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
4,530
Tauranga
To gain traction it needs someone to blame. As with Jews, now the Muslims it all starts with words. Very quickly people do not see people as individuals, they become 'them' They are not 'us' so why does action taken against 'them' be important to me.
All governments need something to blame and something to fear. It allows you to push unpalatable policy (their agenda). It’s more important for government to build up the problem properly than actually coming up with the solution. Planning. Propaganda. Controlling the narrative.

Covid; immigrants; treaty gravy train; colonisation; child poverty; dole bludgers; wealth gaps; evil landlords; etc

Divide and conquer.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
19,493
I am not PC and this post is not meant to be. PC to me is about hiding the truth, so, now thats' out of the way.

Fascism is the merging of Government and Industry in broad terms. To gain traction it needs someone to blame. As with Jews, now the Muslims it all starts with words. Very quickly people do not see people as individuals, they become 'them' They are not 'us' so why does action taken against 'them' be important to me.

1930's Germany had an advanced, liberal and sophisticated legal system, it was subverted by special courts using a very ordinary word, which is being used today in 'Murica' the word is 'temporary. Once Governments grant themselves extra power they don't hand it back, it is never temporary. Nor is it limited, the German Concentration Camps were modelled on the British ones in the Boer war

I hope I am just being paranoid but here is a quote from Pastor Niemoller, a German victim of the Nazis

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
All true, but there is more to it.

For example I am including a clip from DW (this year) about the KKK in the US.

The KKK are broke and small now. In the 1920s there were 5 million paid up members and they were restricted to White Protestants.

The total population then was only 110 million so that was a massive percentage of the adult population.

The people who were in the KKK are now the Trump base. So they have always been there, it just took a communicator (of sorts) to motivate them.

I am still reading the book but one thing is that people attracted to these movements are usually not starving, or broke, just pissed off that they are not achieving what they think they are entitled to.

They feel alone and find comfort in being in a team of fellow losers.

I couldn't help but notice when covid caused people to queue up for food parcels. They were all driving late model SUVs :wtf: . They aren't broke.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
19,493
This one is a cracker about the Murdochs, Fox and democracy
 

bruce

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Sep 1, 2015
19,493
Interested to get Hardymans about this

Anne Applebaum talks about Boris in her book.

She knows him personally.

Her husband went to university with him. She describes him as lazy and likes stirring up trouble without thinking of the consequences. Brexit is an example.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
19,493
I am still working through Anne's book and I know she is going to get onto Trump at some stage. However her talking about Poland is scary. The harking for nostalgia and religion. The clip also mentions paedo priests
 

Hardyman's Yugo

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 2, 2017
3,400
Lancashire, England
Interested to get Hardymans about this

Boris is a fool, but for some reason he’s popular. I think a lot are persuaded by his chummy demeanour. They identify with him for all his faults

The problem here is because we have first past the post there are only two parties that can win and the Labour Party shot themselves in both feet by putting an other world left wing idiot in as leader. Labour will suffer for that for years tbh. The idea of Labour getting in was too frightening to contemplate for a lot of people. A man who held up Venezuela as a model socialist state being one of many idiot ideas.

I’m not sure it’s anything like as bad as that interview is making out though. RT is a notorious agitating propaganda channel, that interviewer was on TV after the Salisbury poisoning and couldn’t bring himself to say Russian agents were behind it. The Russian state are masters of propaganda, they’ve had over 100 years of practice
 

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