General Is this the twilight of democracy?

[marv]

Her argument is women are being disadvantaged by trans rights. Sports, toilets changing rooms.

and their argument is they deserve to have rights too.

the sports argument can never be won.
short of have a trans category, there’s just no way it can work in my eyes.

toilets?
most places have unisex toilets anyway.
you telling me real life born female ladies can’t shit in a unisex toilet?

 

[wizards rage]

Because he is said to be a left wing activist I’m not sure how you can then attribute the promotion of her to the left

Culture wars/ race/ gender/ social issues are very much left priorities. The right don’t really care and are more along the lines of everyone’s equal.

Who was quoted all last week in the media - Greens. Which political party attended the protest - Greens

Right politicians stayed away while Green MP Golriz Ghahraman tweeted on her way to the rally: “So ready to fight Nazis”.

The whole visit was USED by the Greens to create a cause for themselves to get promotion and air time. Nobody cared until we were all told to care.

 

[Jay M]

I fully support trans rights, but we can't forget non trans women have rights too. The number of non trans women vastly outnumber trans women.

I know quite a few women (approx 15) that I have heard talk about this topic in the last week or so and they are not comfortable with trans women sharing changing rooms/toilets with them. And these women range in age from 27ish to their 70s. Conversely, there will be many who are ok with it.

In this situation, there might not be a "right" answer. It's complicated for both sides.

 

[Juju]

Culture wars/ race/ gender/ social issues are very much left priorities. The right don’t really care and are more along the lines of everyone’s equal.

This is why civics in school is really really important.

 

[wizards rage]

I fully support trans rights, but we can't forget non trans women have rights too. The number of non trans women vastly outnumber trans women.

I know quite a few women (approx 15) that I have heard talk about this topic in the last week or so and they are not comfortable with trans women sharing changing rooms/toilets with them. And these women range in age from 27ish to their 70s. Conversely, there will be many who are ok with it.

In this situation, there might not be a "right" answer. It's complicated for both sides.

We need sensible debate and working through solutions.

Instead whichever side your on your either a Nazi or misogynistic.

It’s impossible to move forward when it weaponised with those sort of terms by the radicals.

Yea @juju… your a radical… I saw you trying to push me into a side yesterday so you could label me a Nazi.

 

[Juju]

I really hate to agree with Piers Morgan. But the first sentence seems a logical take on the sporting issue.

 

[Juju]

We need sensible debate and working through solutions.

Instead whichever side your on your either a Nazi or misogynistic.

It’s impossible to move forward when it weaponised with those sort of terms by the radicals.

Yea @juju… your a radical… I saw you trying to push me into a side yesterday so you could label me a Nazi.

Give it a rest, you're an absolute twit but not a Nazi.

 

[wizards rage]

Give it a rest, you're an absolute twit but not a Nazi.

Are you calling me a misogynistic then.

Wouldn’t be the first time

Just playing with ya bro…

 

[Gizzyfan]

and their argument is they deserve to have rights too.

the sports argument can never be won.
short of have a trans category, there’s just no way it can work in my eyes.

toilets?
most places have unisex toilets anyway.
you telling me real life born female ladies can’t shit in a unisex toilet?

My daughter told me Sunday that she would not use a unisex toilet as men have access

 

[Gizzyfan]

She exercised her free speech extensively in the NZ media & the NZ public exercised their right to protest.

Who is funding her visit to NZ and Australia?

She provided a lot and the rest crowd funded or similar. That was from one of the organisers on Sean Plunketts show.

 

[marv]

My daughter told me Sunday that she would not use a unisex toilet as men have access

that rules out a lot of petrol stations, hotel lobbies, corporate offices, music festivals, fairs, b&b’s and restaurants for her then.

but what a wonderful world we live in where she has the right to choose not to use them.

 

[rascallarewind]

If you even just read this woman's wikipedia you can see she has a history of appearing in far right youtube videos - people who advocate for "white entho states"

shit attracts flies.

At the risk of hijacking this discussion, which for the most part I'm finding reasoned and respectful, I'm interested in the above sentiment - 'shit attracts flies'.

What are your thoughts on the situation in Ukraine, with Azov - demonstrably neo-nazi - fighting Russia? Zelensky has appeared in many of their (and other far-right groups', as a result) videos on youtube, even prompting a walk out from members of the Greek Parliament last April.

Sorry again to hijack, and this is by no means intended as some kind of 'gotcha', I'm just extremely interested in the sudden visibility of an ideology that never really went away.

 

[rascallarewind]

Yes we all know Nazis target the LGBT community. Uganda has also banned LGBT groups. We also know Nazis ware anti woman.

Now what’s the link between Nazis and this woman and her woman’s right issues?

What’s she said pro Nazi. Quote her.

This is also interesting to me, 'we also know Nazis were anti-woman'.

Whilst Nazis did pursue a policy of excluding women from top political and business jobs (not unlike the rest of the West at the time), the nazis were not anti-women, and in fact they occupied an almost sacred position. Granted that this was mostly through the lens of 'traditional female roles' of housekeeping and child-bearing. And yet some of the most powerful propaganda tools were produced by women (i.e. Triumph of the Will).

Meanwhile, they did persecute homosexual men (and occasionally women), albeit without pursuing a program of extermination, in part because of a societal belief that pre-dated Nazi Germany that linked homosexuality with child molestation. It was believed homosexuality was something that spread, and was something that seduced the youth.

I certainly hear an echo of that last part in certain arguments within the trans debate.

 

[Worried2Death]

This is also interesting to me, 'we also know Nazis were anti-woman'.

Whilst Nazis did pursue a policy of excluding women from top political and business jobs (not unlike the rest of the West at the time), the nazis were not anti-women, and in fact they occupied an almost sacred position. Granted that this was mostly through the lens of 'traditional female roles' of housekeeping and child-bearing. And yet some of the most powerful propaganda tools were produced by women (i.e. Triumph of the Will).

Meanwhile, they did persecute homosexual men (and occasionally women), albeit without pursuing a program of extermination, in part because of a societal belief that pre-dated Nazi Germany that linked homosexuality with child molestation. It was believed homosexuality was something that spread, and was something that seduced the youth.

I certainly hear an echo of that last part in certain arguments within the trans debate.

The neo-nazi interest in this has nothing to do with women's rights, they just see it as fertile ground for recruiting minds that could be convinced the Jews are subverting the West with degeneracy like Weimar Germany.

 

[Rick O'Shay]

The neo-nazi interest in this has nothing to do with women's rights, they just see it as fertile ground for recruiting minds that could be convinced the Jews are subverting the West with degeneracy like Weimar Germany.

The Australian Jewish Association had the same thoughts after the PP rally in Melbourne

 

[Juju]

At the risk of hijacking this discussion, which for the most part I'm finding reasoned and respectful, I'm interested in the above sentiment - 'shit attracts flies'.

What are your thoughts on the situation in Ukraine, with Azov - demonstrably neo-nazi - fighting Russia? Zelensky has appeared in many of their (and other far-right groups', as a result) videos on youtube, even prompting a walk out from members of the Greek Parliament last April.

Sorry again to hijack, and this is by no means intended as some kind of 'gotcha', I'm just extremely interested in the sudden visibility of an ideology that never really went away.

I'm not going to even pretend to understand the geo political complexity of the region & conflict

but hundreds of years of conflict, bloodshed, annexing of land is quite a vastly different circumstance to a UK social media "woman's rights" grifter appearing on far right media platforms and then exporting her schtick to the Southern Hemisphere.

As for why we are seeing a sudden visibility of the ideology now? Because of the amplification, sharability, virality of social media. That applies to LGBTQ issues never being more visible.

Here is one of the masked attendee's statement on his involvement in Auckland, you try and make sense of that...

 

[Jay M]

I'm genuinely getting worried by the political agendas behind all this.

I've been reading social media threads about "white CIS men starting most wars/killing millions" vs people countering with other examples (e.g. Genghis Khan, Mao, China, Japan etc).

Two weeks ago, did any of us even know who Posie Parker was or what her agenda is/was (if that has even been confirmed, because I won't blindly trust the media on this)?

The media and the puppetmasters pulling the strings are dividing people and getting a lot of people (trans or otherwise) spouting disharmony and hatred. This needs to settle down or it'll get worse.

What's the endgame here?

We all need to take a step back and think deeper than the issues on display because at heart, I think most people are good people, support human rights, and care for others.

 

[marv]

I'm not going to even pretend to understand the geo political complexity of the region & conflict

but hundreds of years of conflict, bloodshed, annexing of land is quite a vastly different circumstance to a UK social media "woman's rights" grifter appearing on far right media platforms and then exporting her schtick to the Southern Hemisphere.

As for why we are seeing a sudden visibility of the ideology now? Because of the amplification, sharability, virality of social media. That applies to LGBTQ issues never being more visible.

Here is one of the masked attendee's statement on his involvement in Auckland, you try and make sense of that...

what’s the saying about not being able to blind them with brilliance?

 

[Mr Dragon]

I'm genuinely getting worried by the political agendas behind all this.

I've been reading social media threads about "white CIS men starting most wars/killing millions" vs people countering with other examples (e.g. Genghis Khan, Mao, China, Japan etc).

Two weeks ago, did any of us even know who Posie Parker was or what her agenda is/was (if that has even been confirmed, because I won't blindly trust the media on this)?

The media and the puppetmasters pulling the strings are dividing people and getting a lot of people (trans or otherwise) spouting disharmony and hatred. This needs to settle down or it'll get worse.

What's the endgame here?

We all need to take a step back and think deeper than the issues on display because at heart, I think most people are good people, support human rights, and care for others.

Depopulation is the goal, But how?
1, Destroy the family
2, Turn straight males into criminals
3, Infest our bodies with microplastics to stop us from breeding!
And the list goes on, but always remember what the goal is and everything starts to make sense in a world without it!

 

[rascallarewind]

I'm not going to even pretend to understand the geo political complexity of the region & conflict

but hundreds of years of conflict, bloodshed, annexing of land is quite a vastly different circumstance to a UK social media "woman's rights" grifter appearing on far right media platforms and then exporting her schtick to the Southern Hemisphere.

As for why we are seeing a sudden visibility of the ideology now? Because of the amplification, sharability, virality of social media. That applies to LGBTQ issues never being more visible.

Here is one of the masked attendee's statement on his involvement in Auckland, you try and make sense of that...

Of course the protests against KJKM are a vastly different situation to the ongoing war in Ukraine. But what strikes me as interesting as how the same people who denounce KJKM for her association with Neo-Nazis (despite her attempt at distancing herself), are also able to vociferously support Ukraine, and thus Azov, and thus Neo-Nazis.

My point is that I'm genuinely shocked at the brazen reemergence of Nazism, and how normal good moral are able to overlook it depending on what cause they wish to condemn. It is exactly this that led to their rise to power initially.

Which is not to say I support the war — I oppose violence entirely. Which is partly why I found the footage from the protests so disturbing (and certain footage of KJKM herself elsewhere). Anytime I see a baying mob, I despair.