General Is NZ now a Police State ?

Inruin

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
May 19, 2012
9,949
Auckland
Who's saying it's harmless?
Was certainly part of a some of the pro legalisation misinformation (certainly downplayed to being irrelevant), similar to the it will be sold in your local dairy and in the shape of gummy bears anti legalisation propoganda.
 
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Rizzah

Stop Being Shit
Contributor
Apr 18, 2012
5,007
Dunedin, NZ
Was certainly part of a some of the pro legalisation misinformation (certainly downplayed to being irrelevant), similar to the it will be sold in your local dairy and in the shape of gummy bears anti legalisation propoganda.
I don't remember that being part of the pro lobby, but could be wrong.
Would be a pretty awful place to live if we could only do things that were harmless
 

Inruin

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
May 19, 2012
9,949
Auckland
I don't remember that being part of the pro lobby, but could be wrong.
Would be a pretty awful place to live if we could only do things that were harmless
Imagine doing things that were harmful and not having the right help available
 
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wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
4,611
Tauranga
That kind of ignorant attitude is a massive part of the problem.

I'm not even going to go into the seeming lack of basic human empathy as then I would end up writing a post that will take up two entire pages.

But what I will say is that the only way you can even begin to sort out these kinds of societal issues is by finding some sort of common ground.

Otherwise all you're doing is perpetuating the illusion of us vs them.

And what that us vs them mentality eventually does is make it not only tolerable for one section of society to persecute another, but it also ends up actively encouraging it & when that happens that society will find itself navigating extremely treacherous waters.

That is exactly the kind of situation that allowed otherwise good Germans to turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed against the Jews by the Nazis.

I do wonder dean if you would have the courage to stand by your so supposed convictions if you were saying it in a public setting to peoples faces & not just anonymously typing this ignorant shite on a largely irrelevant internet forum ???

I very much doubt it.
I’m pretty liberal and happy to let anything go as long as doesn’t affect anyone else...

BUT...

NZ is over represented in suicide, family violence, violent crime, abuse of children, gang turf wars, etc, etc, etc. Problematic use affects everyone.

I’m happy for the police to turn a blind eye to minor drug use. But hardcore use is one of the biggest drivers of stuffing up our society.
 

mrblonde

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 14, 2012
4,035
Auckland
We could lock them up for longer. Chester certainly found his liberal streak after he left the force.

On the basis that 80% of crime is committed by 20% of criminals (just look at trials happening in public, and when the defendant is found guilty, the world finds out he/she previously beat that person, was charged with assault against that person, two years ago did six months for aggravated robbery etc.), longer lock-up times might be an idea. Might.

Keeping prisoners done for drug offences locked up for longer might work if a concerted effort is made to get that prisoner off his/her illegal drug during their time. Right now, I'm not sure that's happening. A prime example:
When lockdown was announced last April, the motel near where I live was designated a "Safe place" for homeless people. So the homeless were taken off the streets/from under bridges etc and given a bed, which some didn't apparantly know how to use. But was there any attempt to deal with any underlying drug issues? Shit, no! Let's just house the homeless for a while and make the White Messiahs feel good about themselves and when the motel either got sick of the midnight fighting/screaming/petty theft or their time ended, guess where the homeless went back to, drug issues in tow. I know you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped, but surely there's a fair percentage of people who do want that help and it's not there beyond a New Zealand version of "Drugs are bad, mmkay? So don't do drugs, 'cause that'd be bad, mmkay?"

I tried dope once or twice way back in the early-90s and, frankly, found the whole experience shit-boring. Tasted like crap, I hate smoking anything and, nope, didn't feel any better than going a bit crazy on the alkeyhole. Apparantly today's stuff is much more potent and addictive.....

I do have some sympathy with the argument that says that if we knew then what we know now about alcohol, there'd be much much tighter restrictions around it. I'd actually be fine if alcohol was made illegal, especially the evil stuff like gin and whisky. You damn government keep your mitts off my rum, beer and wine, though!
 

john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
3,251
tauranga
Yes, but sort of goes against the cannabis is harmless argument too.

Certainly need addiction and mental services well ingrained before any reform IMO. I was hoping this government without any shackles may have done something in this area that may have been transformational

Might be an argument to legalize meth as well 😉
Putting a lot of shit on the current government that the previous National government didn't even recognize was needed.
 

john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
3,251
tauranga
Yes, but sort of goes against the cannabis is harmless argument too.

Certainly need addiction and mental services well ingrained before any reform IMO. I was hoping this government without any shackles may have done something in this area that may have been transformational

Might be an argument to legalize meth as well 😉
Absolutely a comment from a completely politicized fuckwit
 

Rick O'Shay

Warriors 1st Grader
May 1, 2013
4,738
New Plymouth
Cannabis has been around for decades. What's the answer

Jesus, JN, you're becoming a broken record.

There are many answers and there have been any number put forward on all sorts of issues in these forums.

Your standard line is; it's political and what's the answer?

As I suggested many posts ago, get those rose tinted glasses off mate and have a look at what's really happening in your country.

Have an opinion rather than push out the same old lines. Spin is spin.
 
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john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
3,251
tauranga
Jesus, JN, you're becoming a broken record.

There are many answers and there have been any number put forward on all sorts of issues in these forums.

Your standard line is; it's political and what's the answer?

As I suggested many posts ago, get those rose tinted glasses off mate and have a look at what's really happening in your country.

Have an opinion rather than push out the same old lines. Spin is spin.
Jesus Rick .You are the epitome of criticism. No fuckin answer
 

Worried2Death

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 6, 2016
3,362
Alcohol and drugs and no
I think those things are telling symptons rather than the underlying issue, I'm pretty sure there's a genetic component in the kiwi dna that's makes us susceptible to depression, probably has something to do with our isolation and the waves of immigration of the kinds of people who would come to the ends of the earth in leaky boats and stay here in the first place, Maori, Chinese, European, Asian, it's the furthest away you can get from everyone else.

My family tree is littered with generations of ancestors who committed suicide at around age 24 or 25, it's a genetic bipolar disorder I can trace back generations. I remember how it felt growing up a depressed and alienated kiwi kid, sometimes it felt like Id been born in a glorified abattoir in the middle of nowhere, a giant concentration camp for sheep and cows with a few towns here and there. I see a lot of kids who feel the same now, if they're lucky enough they get put on antidepressants that work well enough to block it out. Luckily I could always pull myself out of it by recognizing that no matter how bad it was it could always be worse, I could have been Australian, and at least in this country I'll always have a job at the freezing works.

It's the dark underbelly of the shy and polite kiwi joker psyche you can see in our arts, from Janet Frame to Once Were Warriors. We have a high rate of mental illness in NZ, particularly clinical depression. I don't know what the answer is but I'm with this theory about what the problem is, to a degree it's genetic.
 
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wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
4,611
Tauranga
I think those things are telling symptons rather than the underlying issue, I'm pretty sure there's a genetic component in the kiwi dna that's makes us susceptible to depression, probably has something to do with our isolation and the waves of immigration of the kinds of people who would come to the ends of the earth in leaky boats and stay here in the first place, Maori, Chinese, European, Asian, it's the furthest away you can get from everyone else.

My family tree is littered with generations of ancestors who committed suicide at around age 24 or 25, it's a genetic bipolar disorder I can trace back generations. I remember how it felt growing up a depressed kiwi kid, sometimes it felt like Id been born in a glorified abattoir on the middle of nowhere, a giant concentration camp for sheep and cows with a few towns here and there, I see a lot of kids who feel the same now, if they're lucky enough they get put on antidepressants that work well enough to block it out. Luckily I could always pull myself out of it by recognizing that no matter how bad it is it could always be worse, I could have been Australian.

It's the dark underbelly of the shy and polite kiwi psyche you can see in our arts, from Janet Frame to Once Were Warriors. We have a high rate of mental illness in NZ, particularly clinical depression. I don't know what the answer is but I'm with this theory about what the problem is, to a degree it's genetic.
And weather... land of the long white cloud - lack of sunlight can be depressing
 
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mrblonde

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 14, 2012
4,035
Auckland
I think those things are telling symptons rather than the underlying issue, I'm pretty sure there's a genetic component in the kiwi dna that's makes us susceptible to depression, probably has something to do with our isolation and the waves of immigration of the kinds of people who would come to the ends of the earth in leaky boats and stay here in the first place, Maori, Chinese, European, Asian, it's the furthest away you can get from everyone else.

My family tree is littered with generations of ancestors who committed suicide at around age 24 or 25, it's a genetic bipolar disorder I can trace back generations. I remember how it felt growing up a depressed and alienated kiwi kid, sometimes it felt like Id been born in a glorified abattoir in the middle of nowhere, a giant concentration camp for sheep and cows with a few towns here and there. I see a lot of kids who feel the same now, if they're lucky enough they get put on antidepressants that work well enough to block it out. Luckily I could always pull myself out of it by recognizing that no matter how bad it was it could always be worse, I could have been Australian, and at least in this country I'll always have a job at the freezing works.

It's the dark underbelly of the shy and polite kiwi joker psyche you can see in our arts, from Janet Frame to Once Were Warriors. We have a high rate of mental illness in NZ, particularly clinical depression. I don't know what the answer is but I'm with this theory about what the problem is, to a degree it's genetic.
Most certainly there's a genetic link, as there is with most mental illnesses.

The shy, polite kiwi joker also has an inherent "I'm not much, really" vibe about him, maybe part of being a small country and having America and Britain fill/invade your cultural world via the media. And then the Tall Poppy Syndrome starts asserting it's not-so-sexy self. We like the Kiwi artists that have the lo-fi "Dunedin sound" type vibe going on, the short student-made film, the kind of art you can see at the local art gallery and buy for $200 etc but Eleanor Catton, Taika Waititi, Jermaine Clement, Sol Mio, Lorde, Six60, etc, oh boy, those guys are Just. So. Up. Them. Selves. Be okay if they played sports, though. Although things I've heard about the All Blacks implies small, fragile egos screaming "Look at me!"

There's also certainly a very big You. Will. Not. Cry message being given to boys (despite JK's hard work, etc, it's still the done thing to bottle it in). Until the boys find bottles of alcohol to empty into themselves...Or drugs of various sorts.

I also wonder if we're not taught how to deal with anger properly. As Johnny Lydon sang, "Anger is an energy", but either we're throwing the energy in the wrong direction - family violence, anger aimed at anyone other than the cause of that anger - or we're simply drowning it in alcohol/drugs until it explodes. Cue police sirens, prison time etc.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
22,231
Was certainly part of a some of the pro legalisation misinformation (certainly downplayed to being irrelevant), similar to the it will be sold in your local dairy and in the shape of gummy bears anti legalisation propoganda.
We must have been looking at very different information.

I am not being smart about that, it is entirely possible.

But at the core of the mainstream pro legalization message, was that Cannabis is not harmless, and that is why it should be not be made a legal issue, it should be a health issue so people get help and punishment or hiding it....are not part of the conversation.

Anyway this topic bores me. We all know the arguments and what each other thinks about them.

We will see what happens in future, I can see legalisation being revisited, just not by this Labour Govt or National....it will be some future...likely Labour Govt.
 

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