General Is NZ now a Police State ?

Rick O'Shay

Warriors 1st Grader
May 1, 2013
3,895
New Plymouth
The rub of it all is there appears to be very little in the way of consequences now in this country if you want to contravene the rules.

Whether it be fleeing from a police non pursuit, contravening isolation protocols, leaving the sinking ship that is Auckland, the consequences appear to be a nice talking to and you have to promise not to do it again. Until next time.

Feel sorry for the frontline police. They are being emasculated by the justice system, government and an apathetic public.
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,750
The rub of it all is there appears to be very little in the way of consequences now in this country if you want to contravene the rules.

Whether it be fleeing from a police non pursuit, contravening isolation protocols, leaving the sinking ship that is Auckland, the consequences appear to be a nice talking to and you have to promise not to do it again. Until next time.

Feel sorry for the frontline police. They are being emasculated by the justice system, government and an apathetic public.

Don't forget the media. It seems that every meth addled scumbag, violent, gang banging arsehole is a loving son who is kind to animals and children, until he kills them.
 

Rizzah

Stop Being Shit
Contributor
Apr 18, 2012
4,223
Dunedin, NZ
Good opinion piece by Chester Burrows.
You could substitute 'methamphetamine' in the below quote with any of the crime issues.
While it is politically attractive to pretend we can arrest our way to success with methamphetamine, we need to see the same passion for providing rehabilitation, understanding, and pre-emptive strategies across society to try and turn the tap off in this burgeoning trade.
 

Stone

1st Grade Fringe
May 19, 2012
1,238
Auckland
We could lock them up for longer.
That kind of ignorant attitude is a massive part of the problem.

I'm not even going to go into the seeming lack of basic human empathy as then I would end up writing a post that will take up two entire pages.

But what I will say is that the only way you can even begin to sort out these kinds of societal issues is by finding some sort of common ground.

Otherwise all you're doing is perpetuating the illusion of us vs them.

And what that us vs them mentality eventually does is make it not only tolerable for one section of society to persecute another, but it also ends up actively encouraging it & when that happens that society will find itself navigating extremely treacherous waters.

That is exactly the kind of situation that allowed otherwise good Germans to turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed against the Jews by the Nazis.

I do wonder dean if you would have the courage to stand by your so supposed convictions if you were saying it in a public setting to peoples faces & not just anonymously typing this ignorant shite on a largely irrelevant internet forum ???

I very much doubt it.
 
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Rizzah

Stop Being Shit
Contributor
Apr 18, 2012
4,223
Dunedin, NZ
We could lock them up for longer. Chester certainly found his liberal streak after he left the force.
Chester is a justice reform advocate - He was also on the recent justice reform advisory group - I think his many hours at the coal face of the system has changed his views accordingly.

Are longer sentences an effective strategy?
I think if we put more resources into rehab services inside prisons to help offenders seek a different life we would do more good and it is part of the law that is probably the most neglected.

The purpose of the corrections system, set out in Section 5 of the Act, is to improve public safety and the maintenance of a just society by:​

  • administering all sentences and related orders imposed by the Courts and the New Zealand Parole Board in a safe, secure, humane, and effective manner
  • operating corrections facilities in accordance with the Corrections Act and Regulations (which, in turn, is based on international documents such as the United Nations Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners)
  • assisting in rehabilitating offenders and reintegrating them into the community through providing programmes and other interventions
  • providing information to the Courts and Parole Board to assist them in decision-making.
 
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john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
2,008
tauranga
That kind of ignorant attitude is a massive part of the problem.

I'm not even going to go into the seeming lack of basic human empathy as then I would end up writing a post that will take up two entire pages.

But what I will say is that the only way you can even begin to sort out these kinds of societal issues is by finding some sort of common ground.

Otherwise all you're doing is perpetuating the illusion of us vs them.

And what that us vs them mentality eventually does is make it not only tolerable for one section of society to persecute another, but it also ends up actively encouraging it & when that happens that society will find itself navigating extremely treacherous waters.

That is exactly the kind of attitude that allowed otherwise good Germans to turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed against the Jews by the Nazis.

I do wonder dean if you would have the courage to stand by your so supposed convictions if you were saying it in a public setting to peoples faces & not just anonymously typing this ignorant shite on a largely irrelevant internet forum ???

I very much doubt it.
First time of meeting Stone but how right you are.Tooo many people on here expressing their political views without considering the facts
 

Inruin

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
May 19, 2012
9,180
Auckland
That kind of ignorant attitude is a massive part of the problem.

I'm not even going to go into the seeming lack of basic human empathy as then I would end up writing a post that will take up two entire pages.

But what I will say is that the only way you can even begin to sort out these kinds of societal issues is by finding some sort of common ground.

Otherwise all you're doing is perpetuating the illusion of us vs them.

And what that us vs them mentality eventually does is make it not only tolerable for one section of society to persecute another, but it also ends up actively encouraging it & when that happens that society will find itself navigating extremely treacherous waters.

That is exactly the kind of situation that allowed otherwise good Germans to turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed against the Jews by the Nazis.

I do wonder dean if you would have the courage to stand by your so supposed convictions if you were saying it in a public setting to peoples faces & not just anonymously typing this ignorant shite on a largely irrelevant internet forum ???

I very much doubt it.
I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare to Nazi Germany and the persecution of the Jews. Seems a bit of an internet go to argument but I sort of get your point.

I am for tougher sentencing. Happy to stand up and say that. Also believe that there needs to be better pre emptive strategies and an increased focus on rehabilitation. It's not a one or the other argument though is it? It's not a coincidence that putting more cops on the street reduces crime. It's not a coincidence that cracking down on minor offenses has an impact on reducing major crime.

Education, support, tough penalties.
 

john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
2,008
tauranga
I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare to Nazi Germany and the persecution of the Jews. Seems a bit of an internet go to argument but I sort of get your point.

I am for tougher sentencing. Happy to stand up and say that. Also believe that there needs to be better pre emptive strategies and an increased focus on rehabilitation. It's not a one or the other argument though is it? It's not a coincidence that putting more cops on the street reduces crime. It's not a coincidence that cracking down on minor offenses has an impact on reducing major crime.

Education, support, tough penalties.
OK stand up & tell us what the answer is
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,750
That kind of ignorant attitude is a massive part of the problem.

I'm not even going to go into the seeming lack of basic human empathy as then I would end up writing a post that will take up two entire pages.

But what I will say is that the only way you can even begin to sort out these kinds of societal issues is by finding some sort of common ground.

Otherwise all you're doing is perpetuating the illusion of us vs them.

And what that us vs them mentality eventually does is make it not only tolerable for one section of society to persecute another, but it also ends up actively encouraging it & when that happens that society will find itself navigating extremely treacherous waters.

That is exactly the kind of situation that allowed otherwise good Germans to turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed against the Jews by the Nazis.

I do wonder dean if you would have the courage to stand by your so supposed convictions if you were saying it in a public setting to peoples faces & not just anonymously typing this ignorant shite on a largely irrelevant internet forum ???

I very much doubt it.

In my opinion we have a sizeable part of the population not taking responsibility for their actions, and this is backed up by the enablers who find all manner of excuses for their actions. That is also actively encouraging the behaviour. As for finding common ground, how do you do that when one side doesn't take responsibility and have enablers supporting them.

Take Forestry, an inherently dangerous Profession with strict drug testing protocols, and who can argue with that. Then you have stoners trying to get around the testing process and endangering their workmates. Instead of not using when they have to go to work, simple really.

The Police and Prisons have become the de facto detoxification' centres for drugs and mental health. These people would have been amongst the first to enter the concentration camps by your analogy. Those camps had Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, Communists and the mentally ill..

We are not going to arrest our way out of these problems, but there has to be buy in from all in this. We are all one society..
 

dean

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 13, 2016
1,096
That kind of ignorant attitude is a massive part of the problem.

I'm not even going to go into the seeming lack of basic human empathy as then I would end up writing a post that will take up two entire pages.

But what I will say is that the only way you can even begin to sort out these kinds of societal issues is by finding some sort of common ground.

Otherwise all you're doing is perpetuating the illusion of us vs them.

And what that us vs them mentality eventually does is make it not only tolerable for one section of society to persecute another, but it also ends up actively encouraging it & when that happens that society will find itself navigating extremely treacherous waters.

That is exactly the kind of situation that allowed otherwise good Germans to turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed against the Jews by the Nazis.

I do wonder dean if you would have the courage to stand by your so supposed convictions if you were saying it in a public setting to peoples faces & not just anonymously typing this ignorant shite on a largely irrelevant internet forum ???

I very much doubt it.

That kind of ignorant attitude is a massive part of the problem.

I'm not even going to go into the seeming lack of basic human empathy as then I would end up writing a post that will take up two entire pages.

But what I will say is that the only way you can even begin to sort out these kinds of societal issues is by finding some sort of common ground.

Otherwise all you're doing is perpetuating the illusion of us vs them.

And what that us vs them mentality eventually does is make it not only tolerable for one section of society to persecute another, but it also ends up actively encouraging it & when that happens that society will find itself navigating extremely treacherous waters.

That is exactly the kind of situation that allowed otherwise good Germans to turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed against the Jews by the Nazis.

I do wonder dean if you would have the courage to stand by your so supposed convictions if you were saying it in a public setting to peoples faces & not just anonymously typing this ignorant shite on a largely irrelevant internet forum ???

I very much doubt it.
Hang on a minute Stone, I'm not the criminal and I am not ignorant. You jump to a lot of conclusions for some reason.
I do agree with the us and them scenario. I have no affinity with hardened criminals , specially violent recidivist types. Your linking of that to Nazi Germany is shameful.
You can stop wondering if I would repeat my convictions outside this forum, rest assured I have spent my life doing that.
This forum contains many threads. Many here have vast experience in different fields and there are interesting perspectives and banter at times.
Perhaps you should use some of your empathy to respect my opinion without attacking me and suggesting I'm gutless.
I believe that sentences are far too light and the usual excuses and remorse are shallow and meaningless.
I am all for rehabilitation, one chance, maybe two but after that if your addiction leads to criminal offending, lock them up for longer.
 

Inruin

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
May 19, 2012
9,180
Auckland
Good opinion piece by Chester Burrows.
You could substitute 'methamphetamine' in the below quote with any of the crime issues.

I found this part interesting also given we have just tried to legalize cannabis.

There are self-report studies that indicate New Zealand has about 35,000 regular users. While we see evidence through our court system daily, there are many users who control use and do not come to notice. But like alcohol and cannabis the devastation done to the rest is evident, and long-lasting. The effect on relationships, and particularly women and children, the most graphic.
 
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john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
2,008
tauranga
I found this part interesting also given we have just tried to legalize cannabis.

There are self-report studies that indicate New Zealand has about 35,000 regular users. While we see evidence through our court system daily, there are many users who control use and do not come to notice. But like alcohol and cannabis the devastation done to the rest is evident, and long-lasting. The effect on relationships, and particularly women and children, the most graphic.
Cannabis has been around for decades. What's the answer
 

Rizzah

Stop Being Shit
Contributor
Apr 18, 2012
4,223
Dunedin, NZ
I found this part interesting also given we have just tried to legalize cannabis.

There are self-report studies that indicate New Zealand has about 35,000 regular users. While we see evidence through our court system daily, there are many users who control use and do not come to notice. But like alcohol and cannabis the devastation done to the rest is evident, and long-lasting. The effect on relationships, and particularly women and children, the most graphic.
I think Chester is referencing the need for rehab services for the badly addicted. This was the same for cannabis law reform. Using the tax to pay for these services. Like we don't do with alcohol. ;)
 
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Inruin

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
May 19, 2012
9,180
Auckland
I think Chester is referencing the need for rehab services for the badly addicted. This was the same for cannabis law reform. Using the tax to pay for these services. Like we don't do with alcohol. ;)
Yes, but sort of goes against the cannabis is harmless argument too.

Certainly need addiction and mental services well ingrained before any reform IMO. I was hoping this government without any shackles may have done something in this area that may have been transformational

Might be an argument to legalize meth as well 😉
 
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