General Is NZ now a Police State ?

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
18,097

Should police be able to bring domestic terrorism charges against people like this with multiple firearms.
Gee the quality of Meth has really gone up from the days when I was confiscating it off people.

That stuff looks like Walter White made it.

Terrorism? hmmm....I would love to say yes. It is a compelling question, really would love to see people with caches really get dealt to.

But do we want to dilute what we understand to be terrorism, I dunno...
 
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Inruin

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
May 19, 2012
8,732
Auckland
Gee the quality of Meth has really gone up from the days when I was confiscating it off people.

That stuff looks like Walter White made it.

Terrorism? hmmm....I would love to say yes. It is a compelling question, really would love to see people with caches really get dealt to.

But do we want to dilute what we understand to be terrorism, I dunno...
Yeah, more of a hopeful question. But people like this poisoning the community they live in, cache of firearms and shootings... I dunno, seems like they deserve more than what they are being charged with.
 

JP_576

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 4, 2020
271
Here's how you do prisons.


Norway had a high recidivism rate and high profile incidents within their prisons in the 80s and 90s.
They changed their system to be more humane / more normalised to outside life.
Norway now has the lowest recidivism rate in the world.
I don't realistically see this getting past the politics of it in NZ. Who ever proposes it will be accused by the others of being soft on crime.
I can see the debate from both sides.
The advantages of genuinely rehabilitating offenders therefore resulting in less recidivism rates and less crime and victims.
But then i can also see the point of view of a victim wanting an offender to get maximum punishment.
Tough situation all around.
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,605
I don't realistically see this getting past the politics of it in NZ. Who ever proposes it will be accused by the others of being soft on crime.
I can see the debate from both sides.
The advantages of genuinely rehabilitating offenders therefore resulting in less recidivism rates and less crime and victims.
But then i can also see the point of view of a victim wanting an offender to get maximum punishment.
Tough situation all around.
From my understanding that does not represent all their prisons. They have max security ones as well.
 
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Horriors2013

1st Grade Fringe
May 24, 2013
2,035
The thing is the domestic terrorism act won't target real terrorism. It's aimed at people with a different opinion to mainstream media. They use key words such as misinformation and disinformation. Anyone who says anything contrary to what the government wants to hear gets put into that basket. Then they character assassinate that person until the public believe that person is a terrorist. And all they did was say they don't wear a mask.

We live in an echo chamber in NZ. We have no idea what is really happening out there. The rest of the world are protesting lockdowns and vaccines, after all the violent reactions people are having to them. And mental health has skyrocketed. They're over lockdown.

Our media don't even cover these events. It's all censored now. They're going to gave everyone believe everything is well except for the climate. Meanwhile, our freedoms erode by the day. Two things causing police state: 1. Vulnerable people too scared to take responsibility for themselves 2. Everybody believes the government cares about them.

Until that changes, people will give up all their freedoms if Jacinda and Bloomfield say to.
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,605
The thing is the domestic terrorism act won't target real terrorism. It's aimed at people with a different opinion to mainstream media. They use key words such as misinformation and disinformation. Anyone who says anything contrary to what the government wants to hear gets put into that basket. Then they character assassinate that person until the public believe that person is a terrorist. And all they did was say they don't wear a mask.

We live in an echo chamber in NZ. We have no idea what is really happening out there. The rest of the world are protesting lockdowns and vaccines, after all the violent reactions people are having to them. And mental health has skyrocketed. They're over lockdown.

Our media don't even cover these events. It's all censored now. They're going to gave everyone believe everything is well except for the climate. Meanwhile, our freedoms erode by the day. Two things causing police state: 1. Vulnerable people too scared to take responsibility for themselves 2. Everybody believes the government cares about them.

Until that changes, people will give up all their freedoms if Jacinda and Bloomfield say to.

Who has said that non mask wearers and anti- vaxxers are terrorists?
 

Horriors2013

1st Grade Fringe
May 24, 2013
2,035
Who has said that non mask wearers and anti- vaxxers are terrorists?
The media. Particularly during election time. It was all about cutting Trump down to less than human and pumping Biden up because...well he wasn't Trump. I won't go down that rabbit hole here.

But if you read enough articles from mainstream you can see where this is heading. She wants to marry hate speech and domestic terrorism together, to make them synonymous. You will not be free to say what you think.

It's also on the World Economic Forum. Where they want us to be. Anyone who doesn't agree with status quo are classed as 'those we lost by the wayside '. And will be separated from the rest. I can show you if you're interested.
 
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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
18,097
The thing is the domestic terrorism act won't target real terrorism. It's aimed at people with a different opinion to mainstream media. They use key words such as misinformation and disinformation. Anyone who says anything contrary to what the government wants to hear gets put into that basket. Then they character assassinate that person until the public believe that person is a terrorist. And all they did was say they don't wear a mask.

We live in an echo chamber in NZ. We have no idea what is really happening out there. The rest of the world are protesting lockdowns and vaccines, after all the violent reactions people are having to them. And mental health has skyrocketed. They're over lockdown.

Our media don't even cover these events. It's all censored now. They're going to gave everyone believe everything is well except for the climate. Meanwhile, our freedoms erode by the day. Two things causing police state: 1. Vulnerable people too scared to take responsibility for themselves 2. Everybody believes the government cares about them.

Until that changes, people will give up all their freedoms if Jacinda and Bloomfield say to.

Pandemics are not new.

The rights and freedoms you enjoy now, evolved in a human story of pandemics, lock downs, quarantines....going back to biblical times. The rights you are playing intellectual pocket billiards with, came about because of the human ability to use empathy and a sense of social connection to place the welfare of others above our individual self interest.

These are traits of intelligence.


What you people need to understand is this:

A pandemic is coming.

One you will respect, because it will tell you who is boss and what is important.

All the wankery you can imagine will not matter...and none of us will read it when you are dead.

That is reality.

That is your and my future, unless we learn to do what our ancestors did, try what works, worry about the thought experiments after we have woken up still breathing.
 
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JP_576

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 4, 2020
271
To add on there have always been laws, rules and regulations even on things that may not effect other people. A couple I can think of are having to wear seatbelts and helmets. Other than the the obvious cost to healthcare, and effects on first responders etc but that's not too different from effects of not wearing masks or taking vaccines. .
The only reason the anti maskers, anti lockdowners came about is cause the whole issue was politicized.
Even countries that tried to downplay covid like the UK have been going in and out of lockdowns a year after we started finding out this virus existed.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
18,097
To add on there have always been laws, rules and regulations even on things that may not effect other people. A couple I can think of are having to wear seatbelts and helmets. Other than the the obvious cost to healthcare, and effects on first responders etc but that's not too different from effects of not wearing masks or taking vaccines. .
The only reason the anti maskers, anti lockdowners came about is cause the whole issue was politicized.
Even countries that tried to downplay covid like the UK have been going in and out of lockdowns a year after we started finding out this virus existed.
Well said.

Psychiatry is a science that has battled public ignorance and perception for centuries.

It is also a science with a long history of its own ignorance, its own prejudice and its own crimes against peoples freedoms.

These pandemic arguments about freedoms are not new to people who have mental health diagnosis nor to the people who do the diagnosing.

The majority of people with mental health conditions do not readily accept being labelled, And they rally against the mental health systems ability to detain and treat them against their will.

In other words a frame work already exists and has been there without interruption for these arguments....for centuries

You will not find this in the media or even in epidemiological arguments, because mental health gets portioned off as 'other' in peoples minds.

Some academic may well read what I am typing now and do their thesis on it...I doubt it,...but you read it here first.

If you extrapolate the arguments to stop state control for health reasons, you open the door for the man who god told to chop his babies head off, to rally against the compulsory treatment that the system enforced on him. The same controls, the same powers, that lead to the Govt being allowed to direct this man to a Govt maximum secure facility because of an illness which you cannot even prove with a blood test....

A purely theoretical illness...not even as provable as Covid.

Clearly you need to trust a scientific body over a public debate of freedoms, or we unlock the doors of Mason Clinic, and its equivalent services across this country, and release the guys that cut off their land lords heads and placed them in an oven.

Well...you could argue most should go to prison. But then many qualify for release now.....and without the mental health act, you are setting them loose among us and our children without treatment. In other words they will relapse from a un bilogically provable illness....and they will guaranteed return to the state of mind where they are killers.

I think I would rather we placed the public’s right to safety over the theoretical arguments about state sanctioned controls and loss of freedoms.


-
 
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Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,605
The media. Particularly during election time. It was all about cutting Trump down to less than human and pumping Biden up because...well he wasn't Trump. I won't go down that rabbit hole here.

But if you read enough articles from mainstream you can see where this is heading. She wants to marry hate speech and domestic terrorism together, to make them synonymous. You will not be free to say what you think.

It's also on the World Economic Forum. Where they want us to be. Anyone who doesn't agree with status quo are classed as 'those we lost by the wayside '. And will be separated from the rest. I can show you if you're interested.

Mate, you are convoluting things from round the world. I totally agree the media supported Biden, but that was to stop progressive candidates like Tulsi Gabbard getting traction.

By she I presume you mean Jacinda, Biden and her are political opposites, Biden is right wing, Jacinda left. The problem is the pandemic (it is real) has been politicised. The scenario you propose would mean an alliance of left and right, aint gonna happen.
 

JP_576

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 4, 2020
271
Also one more thing, I don't have issues with people questioning and looking into genuine scientific journals regarding safety of vaccines and medications as anyone should have a right to know what they're injecting into their or their kids bodies. It's when people start going into echo chambers and wormholes repeating straight up crazy theories. One of the vaccines had backing from bill gates "omg he's trying to kill the poor", video of Bill gates getting injected with the vaccine comes out "oh that's just saline solution he's being injected with". I'm sure if the world's richest people wanted to start killing off the poor they could find much easier ways of doing so.

Also food for thought, we've never had as much freedom as some people may like to believe.

I had to show proof of immunization at my kids kindy when I first started them.
My Mrs studying midwifery had to get a few immunization shots before being allowed into the clinical side of things.
Most companies drug test these days and you'll most likely be fired or stood down even if the positive result is from past use in your own free time that's not effecting you at work.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
18,097
Also one more thing, I don't have issues with people questioning and looking into genuine scientific journals regarding safety of vaccines and medications as anyone should have a right to know what they're injecting into their or their kids bodies. It's when people start going into echo chambers and wormholes repeating straight up crazy theories. One of the vaccines had backing from bill gates "omg he's trying to kill the poor", video of Bill gates getting injected with the vaccine comes out "oh that's just saline solution he's being injected with". I'm sure if the world's richest people wanted to start killing off the poor they could find much easier ways of doing so.

Also food for thought, we've never had as much freedom as some people may like to believe.

I had to show proof of immunization at my kids kindy when I first started them.
My Mrs studying midwifery had to get a few immunization shots before being allowed into the clinical side of things.
Most companies drug test these days and you'll most likely be fired or stood down even if the positive result is from past use in your own free time that's not effecting you at work.
The attacks on Gates are truly the pitch fork, burning torch waving inbreeds.

If there was a micro chip, then Gates would have targeted the MMR vaccine that babies receive.

Gates would have to be a dumb kient to choose the controversial Covid vaccine that people under 16 do not receive by compulsion.

Lets remind ourselves why your wife and kids going to kindy have to prove they have had a measles shot....

Because measles is mega infectious....way worse than Covid....and it kills children. Measles is worse than Covid 19.

Yet we live with it ok, because only the looneys reject the idea of a life saving vaccine for children in the time of measles.

That is why I say that the protests against Covid controls, will die a natural death, because the fact is, that something is coming, that will shut them all up. Something like measles that we have no vaccine for....the Roman empire was smashed by waves of pandemics...they fell...during global pandemics.

Thousands of years of evidence....out weighs a five minute google search.
 
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