General Happy Birthday Rugby League - August 29

Messages
7,790
Reaction score
11,932
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
snake77

snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
7,790
Reaction score
11,932
I noticed this while reading Steve Mascord's set of six article. It is worth remembering. If it wasn't for a bunch of guys in the North of England deciding they didn't like losing wages from playing missing work to play the game. We wouldn't have the game that evolved into Rugby League.

Thank You.

Happy Rugby League Day

Happy Birthday, rugby league. It was on August 29, in 1895 that 20 clubs voted to split from rugby union and form their own competition. Set of Six has always found it curious that a huge majority of fans in Australia – and many in England – are completely unaware of the anniversary. Rugby league has always been too busy living hand-to-mouth to properly celebrate its history. The game has unity in the face of personal misfortune, as shown by bodies such as Men of League and RL Cares, but remains divided in so many other ways. As if to symbolise this, the game's birthplace – the George Hotel in Huddersfield – remains boarded up awaiting new tenants.

https://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/set-of-six-kieran-forans-parramatta-contract-payout-has-set-precedent-20160828-gr2yp3.html
 
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
bruce

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
As if to symbolise this, the game's birthplace – the George Hotel in Huddersfield – remains boarded up awaiting new tenants.
I think the reason they used the George is because it is close to the railway station and Huddersfield was a central point between Hull and Liverpool. Mike Stephenson "Stevo" the one eyed Pom commentator owned the hotel once I think as a sort of museum. Some trainspotter can put me right on that.
 
Messages
7,790
Reaction score
11,932
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
snake77

snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
7,790
Reaction score
11,932
I remember you mentioning about Stephenson buying the George.

I've got a DVD here at home somewhere about the history of rugby league. More the formation and the early years. It's a UK DVD so the documentary is more from the English side of things with which clubs were strong it what era.

My understanding the northern clubs were most of the top clubs. They also had a game between the union guys and the northern union. The pros from the North won of course.

It was an interesting documentary.
 
Messages
22,133
Reaction score
46,122
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
mt.wellington

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
22,133
Reaction score
46,122
I think the reason they used the George is because it is close to the railway station and Huddersfield was a central point between Hull and Liverpool. Mike Stephenson "Stevo" the one eyed Pom commentator owned the hotel once I think as a sort of museum. Some trainspotter can put me right on that.
You got it. The museum was in the hotels basement but the hotel was sold off. Last I heard the collection was in storage waiting for another location. Pretty shit to think that Rugby League is the only major sport that doesnt have a proper museum. RLIF is so useless...
 
Messages
7,790
Reaction score
11,932
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
snake77

snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
7,790
Reaction score
11,932
As a sport we are poor at celebrating our history. Even heritage round has turned into flash jerseys or clubs just playing in their normal strip.

A pity this date isn't well known. I find the whole formation of the code interesting, guys sticking up for themselves and fighting for their lost wages. Only took the other lot a 100 years that going pro isn't a bad thing.
 
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
bruce

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
My understanding the northern clubs were most of the top clubs. They also had a game between the union guys and the northern union. The pros from the North won of course.
They were. That is why the snobby private school types bought up the amateur rules to kick them out.
 
Messages
7,790
Reaction score
11,932
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
snake77

snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
7,790
Reaction score
11,932
I always laugh when hybrid games get brought up or league vs union games. Veitch often brings up the 1996 series between Wigan and Bath saying it didn't prove anything as they both one their games by similar amounts.

The league guys won their game by more points and tries are worth less points in league. They also had their coach playing for them.

Also one of the best union tries I have ever seen was scored by a league team.:confused: When Wigan scored by running the ball from behind their goal line.

 
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
bruce

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
I always laugh when hybrid games get brought up or league vs union games. Veitch often brings up the 1996 series between Wigan and Bath saying it didn't prove anything as they both one their games by similar amounts.

The league guys won their game by more points and tries are worth less points in league. They also had their coach playing for them.

Also one of the best union tries I have ever seen was scored by a league team.:confused: When Wigan scored by running the ball from behind their goal line.

The truth is now that yawnion has gone professional the Southern types are throwing money at league players and killing the game. The hooray henrys at Twickenham will ruin yanwion as well. Just watch when the Australian RFU folds and the All Blacks have nobody to play except the Saffas and Argies.
 
Messages
7,788
Reaction score
7,248
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Warriors 1st Grader
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
7,788
Reaction score
7,248
The truth is now that yawnion has gone professional the Southern types are throwing money at league players and killing the game. The hooray henrys at Twickenham will ruin yanwion as well. Just watch when the Australian RFU folds and the All Blacks have nobody to play except the Saffas and Argies.
The NZRFU is in financial strife too, only not as bad as the aussies. Neither has a sustainable business which is why they want a global season (i.e., more test matches.)

The northern clubs and national unions all make a profit, so therefore do not want or see the need to change.

My money is on Australia to be the first to go back to amateur status.
 
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
bruce

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
The northern clubs and national unions all make a profit, so therefore do not want or see the need to change.
The clubs are underwritten by hooray henrys, they don't make a bean. Just imagine the Tv ratings for Harlequins v Bath:rolleyes:. Rugby league is the TV game and the yawnion boys know it. Do I sound biased at all?:confused:
 
Messages
7,788
Reaction score
7,248
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Warriors 1st Grader
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
7,788
Reaction score
7,248
I noticed this while reading Steve Mascord's set of six article. It is worth remembering. If it wasn't for a bunch of guys in the North of England deciding they didn't like losing wages from playing missing work to play the game. We wouldn't have the game that evolved into Rugby League.

Thank You.

Happy Rugby League Day

Happy Birthday, rugby league. It was on August 29, in 1895 that 20 clubs voted to split from rugby union and form their own competition. Set of Six has always found it curious that a huge majority of fans in Australia – and many in England – are completely unaware of the anniversary. Rugby league has always been too busy living hand-to-mouth to properly celebrate its history. The game has unity in the face of personal misfortune, as shown by bodies such as Men of League and RL Cares, but remains divided in so many other ways. As if to symbolise this, the game's birthplace – the George Hotel in Huddersfield – remains boarded up awaiting new tenants.

https://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/set-of-six-kieran-forans-parramatta-contract-payout-has-set-precedent-20160828-gr2yp3.html
The 22 clubs had been formed some time previously e.g.: Batley 1880, Bradford 1863, Brighouse Rangers 1878, Broughton Rangers 1877, Dewsbury 1875, Halifax 1873, Huddersfield 1864, Hull 1865, Hunslet 1883, Leeds 1890, Leigh 1877, Liversedge 1877, Manningham 1876, Oldham 1876, Rochdale Hornets 1871, St Helens 1874, Tyldesley 1879, Wakefield Trinity 1873, Warrington 1875, Widnes 1875, Wigan 1879. Dewsbury withdrew a few days after the meeting and were replaced by Runcorn (1876). Stockport was also included at the meeting at the George after calling in by phone.

The first matches of the new Northern Union were played on September 7th, 1895: Huddersfield v. Batley, Wakefield v. Brighouse, Hunslet v. Liversedge, Runcord v. Manningham, Broughton Rangers v. Widnes, Stockport v. St. Helens, Halifax v. Oldham, Warrington v. Leigh, Bradford v. Rochdale Hornets, Wigan v. Tyldesley and Leeds v. Hull. Two competitions were to be fought for i.e. Lancashire (won for the first time by Runcord) and Yorkshire (won for the first time by Manningham - the Bradford club).

From https://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/Schism.html
 
Messages
15,165
Reaction score
27,270
Joined
May 7, 2012
Sup42

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
15,165
Reaction score
27,270
The rugby football codes split for socio economic reasons.

We all understand that bit (if you don't then do your home work dick PIC generation, I can't be arsed explaining it).

The reason NZ joined the bandwagon so early is we had poor people playing for the Allblacks.....more importantly that's why we are good at it.

NZ are a contender in league coz of Union.

England are good because of the revolutionary anti establishment class system reality.

Aussie are good at it for both reasons. They were transported. The worst of the auk system, hard and bad bastards, who were given the Petri dish of a new world, free of the claasist Union, to become what they are, the best.

In nz terms it is a paradox. Every league player has had compulsory training in Union. That is where their natural skill development lies....kids league coaching by comparison is shit.

In Aussie their kids are trained free of the Union system which preahez 'we do not like people to run with the ball on instinct away from their forwards support.
 
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
bruce

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
The rugby football codes split for socio economic reasons.
The northern clubs had a different social structure.
In the north the upper class were not above mixing with the working class at sport. The southern clubs regarded the working class as beneath them and didn't want anything to do with them.
Because of this the northern clubs were able to field better sides, especially with coal miners. They began to dominate the competition. So the southern clubs demanded amateur rules be followed preventing the northern clubs from paying their tough coal miners for taking a day off from the pits.
Most of the rugby league clubs were from coal mining towns.
At the time of the split rugby was gaining ground in popularity in England. After the split football took over completely.
Peter Fitzsimons has said the only significant thing the rugby union have ever done was to cause rugby league to be started.
 
Messages
7,790
Reaction score
11,932
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
snake77

snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
7,790
Reaction score
11,932
Peter Fitzsimons has said the only significant thing the rugby union have ever done was to cause rugby league to be started.
He's thrown some verbal bullets at league over the years. Probably like over here people need to talk up or mention rugby and the All Blacks to get into the papers and get some good press. Over in Australia you need to mention league to make the sports pages, a lot of the papers seem to be negative to generate headlines. So him writing or commenting about league isn't surprising. But damn I find that quote surprising, did he get hit in the head or something?

The northern clubs had a different social structure.
In the north the upper class were not above mixing with the working class at sport. The southern clubs regarded the working class as beneath them and didn't want anything to do with them.
England is pretty interesting when you look at the South mainly Union and the North playing league. We hear a lot over here about them playing 10 man rugby and not having the ball in hand skills. Their league is known for moving the ball around, supporting the ball player etc. They aren't obsessed with mistake and completion rates like the Australians.
 
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
bruce

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
He's thrown some verbal bullets at league over the years. Probably like over here people need to talk up or mention rugby and the All Blacks to get into the papers and get some good press. Over in Australia you need to mention league to make the sports pages, a lot of the papers seem to be negative to generate headlines. So him writing or commenting about league isn't surprising. But damn I find that quote surprising, did he get hit in the head or something?


England is pretty interesting when you look at the South mainly Union and the North playing league. We hear a lot over here about them playing 10 man rugby and not having the ball in hand skills. Their league is known for moving the ball around, supporting the ball player etc. They aren't obsessed with mistake and completion rates like the Australians.
Peter Fitzsimons has written that a couple of times. He really is anti establishment, and that includes Alan Jones who he has a swipe at every opportunity. He also might be/is aware of how many subscriptions Fairfax get from over this side of the ditch.

Also I have posted before about Gerald Ryan, the late former chairman of the NZRFL. He was adamant the Northerners got the idea of running rugby from the NZ Native team that toured there in 1988-9.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1888–89_New_Zealand_Native_football_team
The 1888–89 New Zealand Native football team was a New Zealand rugby union team that toured Britain, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand in 1888 and 1889. It mostly comprised players of Māori ancestry, and also included somePākehā (white New Zealanders). A wholly private endeavour, the tour was not under the auspices of any official rugby authority; it was organised by New Zealand international player Joseph Warbrick, promoted by civil servant Thomas Eyton, and managed by James Scott, a publican. The Natives were the first New Zealand team to perform a haka, and also the first to wear all black. They played 107 rugby matches during the tour, as well as a small number of Victorian Rules footballand association football matches in Australia. Having made a significant impact on the development of New Zealand rugby, the Natives were inducted into the International Rugby Board Hall of Fame in 2008.

After a preliminary tour of New Zealand in 1888, the side travelled to England via Melbourne and Suez. The Māori players initially provoked curiosity due to their race, but the British press subsequently expressed some surprise that the side was not as "Māori" as they had expected. Playing their first match, on 3 October against Surrey, the team was subjected to a taxing match schedule, and frequently played three matches per week. Their early matches included a 9–0 loss toMiddlesex, but their form improved in November, when they won 10 of their 13 matches. The team played its first international match on 1 December, against Ireland, and won 13–4. This was followed by a win over one of the strongest English county teams, Yorkshire, and a 5–0 defeat against the Wales national team. By January 1889 the Natives had played 36 matches in less than three months, winning 22 of them; they had spent most of their time in the north of England, where the playing strength was strongest and the crowds largest and most profitable.

In a return match on 19 January, Yorkshire fielded a stronger side than in the first match and inflicted one of the Natives' heaviest losses, a 16–4 defeat. The team then went undefeated until 16 February, when they faced England. Officials of the strictly amateur Rugby Football Union (RFU) had become increasingly concerned at the behaviour of the New Zealanders, regarding them as unsportsmanlike, and tensions reached a nadir in the aftermath of the England international, during which the RFU secretary George Rowland Hill, refereeing the game, awarded a number of controversial tries to England, prompting three of the Natives to temporarily leave the field in protest; England eventually won 7–0. The Natives apologised afterwards for their behaviour, but the damage was not repaired. The New Zealanders left England without an official send-off, and travelled to Australia where they toured Victoria, New South Wales and Queensland. They then returned to New Zealand, where they displayed a level of combination not seen in their home country before. They went 31 games undefeated before losing their final match, on 24 August 1889, 7–2 to Auckland.

The Natives' final record in rugby matches was 78 wins, 6 draws and 23 losses. They introduced a number of tactical innovations to New Zealand rugby on their return home, and their tour contributed to the formation of the New Zealand Rugby Football Union in 1892. Seventeen of the team's 26 players went on to play provincially in New Zealand, and two, Thomas Ellison and David Gage, subsequently captained the New Zealand national rugby team.
Impact and legacy[edit]

Thomas Ellison, who played 83 of the sides' 107 matches, went on to captain the first official New Zealandside in 1893.
The tour had a significant impact on the development of rugby within New Zealand. It was the first tour of the British Isles by a team from the Southern Hemisphere, and the longest in the history of the sport.[88] By the time the Natives returned to New Zealand, they had developed into a side superior to any in the country,[89] and introduced a number of tactical innovations.[90] Seventeen of the 26 players went on to play provincially in New Zealand, and two, Ellison and David Gage, subsequently captained New Zealand.[91]

The tour also prompted the eventual formation of the New Zealand Rugby Football Union (NZRFU, later renamed New Zealand Rugby Union) in 1892; one reason for its formation was to ensure greater control over any future touring New Zealand sides.[90] The NZRFU sent an officially sanctioned New Zealand team, captained by Ellison, to tour Australia in 1893.[92] The Natives are also the forefathers of the Māori All Blacks, a representative team organised by the NZRFU, that first played in 1910.[93] The Native team, along with Joe Warbrick, was inducted into the IRB Hall of Fame in 2008 – the seventh inductee.[94][95]
 
Messages
7,788
Reaction score
7,248
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Warriors 1st Grader
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
7,788
Reaction score
7,248
Football also used to be split north and south along amature and professional lines, but the two leagues merged in 1920 and the sport has dominated ever since. They also obolished the maximum player wage in 1961.
 
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
bruce

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
13,928
Reaction score
19,987
Football also used to be split north and south along amature and professional lines, but the two leagues merged in 1920 and the sport has dominated ever since. They also obolished the maximum player wage in 1961.
I didn't know that. I thought the hooray henrys preferred rugger. I thought football was a slum sport.
 
Messages
7,788
Reaction score
7,248
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Lord Gnome of Howick MBE

Warriors 1st Grader
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
7,788
Reaction score
7,248
I didn't know that. I thought the hooray henrys preferred rugger. I thought football was a slum sport.
It was a slum sport but the southern league was amature - nothing to do with sport only being for the rich like in rugby union.
 
Top Bottom