General Halves Discussion (this Year And Beyond)

i dont remember us being the second worst defensive team last year. im not sold on bluey. not sure if im impressed with a head coach who admits that he over trained his pkayers(before canberra game). i would expect him to know what is required at training by now. if we dont make the 8 after last seasons effort and with the squad he has got then questions will definately be asked. no maloney next year is only going to make it tougher in my opinion.
im pretty sure we were near the top of missed tackles last year

in fact just found this article
https://www.nrl.com/season-killers-...ust-fix/tabid/10874/newsid/64083/default.aspx

we still have the same issues and maloney is a major contributor to that stat.
Im willing to give bluey a chance after the last 6 weeks where we have been more than competitive with the best teams in the comp. i wasnt sure after the first 6 weeks but things seem to be getting better
 
https://www.nrl.com/stats-insider-n...evealed/tabid/10874/newsid/67754/default.aspx

We are the worst defenders in terms of missed tackles so far.

The player who has averaged more misses each week is Warriors playmaker James Maloney , with 5.4 a game.
Perhaps this is a reason his star faded in Origin discussions? What makes things even more concerning for the Warriors (we already know they are the worst team at missed tackles) is Maloney’s halves partner Shaun Johnson ranks equal third with 4.4 misses a game. So while the attacking brilliance of the pair is an obvious bonus for the boys from across the ditch, it seems their inability to effectively fell the opposition is causing stress on others and the results have seen the Warriors off the pace.
 
When Bluey was giving his explanation for that week he didn't really have one and went on to say that he had trained them pretty hard that week and maybe he had over trained them. He didn't point any fingers at his players he accepted that it was probably his fault.IMO I was impressed that he took ownership for the loss. We should make the top 4 but injuries will be the main factor.
I am not so worried about losing Maloney as long as his replacement isn't Godinet as we need a stable tackler there and IMO I think Johnsons defence is getting better every week, he is still having problems trying to read play but his commitment to the tackle has been good.
i agree that we need a strong tackler and am also worried about all next years options Godinet, Tuimavave and TL (mainly because I havent seen much of them defensively). thats why i quite like the idea of locke if he was capable of the playmaking duties. hes a gutsy defender but who knows he might be fragile in the line.

Thats whats been most disappointing about maloney to me. hes shown that hes capable of being a strong front on defender. how is he clocking up these missed tackle stats, i havent really watched him closely. is he getting beaten for pace on his outside/inside, hes a quick guy so i wouldnt have thought so. is he falling off front on tackles and getting run over?
 
i agree that we need a strong tackler and am also worried about all next years options Godinet, Tuimavave and TL (mainly because I havent seen much of them defensively). thats why i quite like the idea of locke if he was capable of the playmaking duties. hes a gutsy defender but who knows he might be fragile in the line.

Thats whats been most disappointing about maloney to me. hes shown that hes capable of being a strong front on defender. how is he clocking up these missed tackle stats, i havent really watched him closely. is he getting beaten for pace on his outside/inside, hes a quick guy so i wouldnt have thought so. is he falling off front on tackles and getting run over?

If I had one issue with Locke's games in the U20s it was the way he would make a tackle and then stay in the line too long and make a couple more-IMO he is a very good tackler in the line. TL is pretty good defensively too.
Maloney is a strong tackler and doesn't get run over that often but he comes out of the line too often making it easy for the runners, it only takes a metre or 2 too fast or slow and you become a defensive liability.
 
maybe, he will have to work on his defence (missed tackles 5.9/game) if he wants to play origin. mind you, While his line defense is pretty poor this year, his cover defense is still good...last year it was amazing.

Those stats also need to be looked at in context...Maloneys 172 tackles and 59 misses, is still better than a bloke who is asked to make 50 and misses 25.

In context it's a lot harder to defend a wing than it is the middle of the park with 2 very good tacklers each side of you.
 
Maloney is on his way out the door....so what are the chances of his defensive attitude improving before he leaves.....( rhetorical Question )

Johnson on the Other hand needs to pull finger out, we know he's built for it (bigger and stronger than most halves)....he's going to be around for a long time, I don't like players being hidden in the line because they offset a fault in other areas, I prefer he is made to put the work in Cleary got out of him last year defensively.

Asking of Johnson to make four to five better tackles a game isn't much to ask of any player on that kind of Money.
 

Inruin

Contributor
Maloney is on his way out the door....so what are the chances of his defensive attitude improving before he leaves.....( rhetorical Question )

Johnson on the Other hand needs to pull finger out, we know he's built for it (bigger and stronger than most halves)....he's going to be around for a long time, I don't like players being hidden in the line because they offset a fault in other areas, I prefer he is made to put the work in Cleary got out of him last year defensively.

Asking of Johnson to make four to five better tackles a game isn't much to ask of any player on that kind of Money.
i didnt actually realise how big he is. when you see him on tv next to the big boppers he looks quite small but when you see him in person...
 
Maloney's residual value will be ZERO, next year.....

For any half if you can attack like our halves can, a few missed tackles is OK. We can't have a defensive machine and an attacking Guru in one.

I would like to know how many Thurston missies or his takling percentage as an example...
 

Inruin

Contributor
Thurston missies 18.4% of his tackles.

Johnson - missies 25.8%

Baloney - Missies 25.5%

Soward - Missies 13.5%

Cronk - Missies 11.76% yet has made twice as many as Soward!!

All very interesting.
yes and maloney and Shaun Johnson really are still rookies. look at benji early on and soward. as long as they are doing what they are supposed to as playmakers and you can give them some protection like beau scott with soward it should be sweet. of course two in the warriors is a little harder to cover.
 
Maloney is on his way out the door....so what are the chances of his defensive attitude improving before he leaves.....( rhetorical Question )

Johnson on the Other hand needs to pull finger out, we know he's built for it (bigger and stronger than most halves)....he's going to be around for a long time, I don't like players being hidden in the line because they offset a fault in other areas, I prefer he is made to put the work in Cleary got out of him last year defensively.

Asking of Johnson to make four to five better tackles a game isn't much to ask of any player on that kind of Money.

Johnson's defensive technique has improved this year and statistically he is making the same amount of tackles, I'm not sure if this will ever improve.
I don't believe Bluey is hiding him in the line and saying Cleary got more out of him is ridiculous statistically he is making the same amount of tackles and without doing the math I believe his missed tackle rate has improved.
Does money have anything to do with players tackling ability?, some people can tackle really well and some can't, it doesn't matter how big they are,nearly all the best tacklers in our game are all under 100kg. Shauns true ability is with the ball in hand not tackling if he can improve fantastic. The way he is coming along they will find it hard to select Foran when it comes to naming the Kiwis.
Knowing the Warriors we are paying him way under his true value, he is an absolute superstar that will put more bums on seats than anyone else on our roster.
 
Before we purchase let's not forget that we have:
Godinet
Tuimavave
Leuluai
Havili

I also would love to see Locke at 6 but I believe next year would be too soon Miller is good, but in my opinion, these aforementioned four, are much better than him.
 
Unless I've gone completely blind 99% of the time the Warriors play left and right halves rather than a halfback and standoff formation. On how many occasions has Johnson crossed with Maloney to be first receiver on the right hand side this season?
this is true, they both need to switch it up. at the moment, maloney does short balls and grubbers to the right, johnson does bombs to the left, too predictable
 
Johnson's defensive technique has improved this year and statistically he is making the same amount of tackles, I'm not sure if this will ever improve.
I don't believe Bluey is hiding him in the line and saying Cleary got more out of him is ridiculous statistically he is making the same amount of tackles and without doing the math I believe his missed tackle rate has improved.
Does money have anything to do with players tackling ability?, some people can tackle really well and some can't, it doesn't matter how big they are,nearly all the best tacklers in our game are all under 100kg. Shauns true ability is with the ball in hand not tackling if he can improve fantastic. The way he is coming along they will find it hard to select Foran when it comes to naming the Kiwis.
Knowing the Warriors we are paying him way under his true value, he is an absolute superstar that will put more bums on seats than anyone else on our roster.

Thanks for the reply ; It doesn't make sense to Criticise one half in a thread if the other half has the same deficiencies and nothing is said. No one is disputing Johnsons Positives , personally i Think he is young enough to learn to improve his tackling before this soft area of his game is entrenched in his thinking.
That would be why CLeary dropped him in the Tigers game last year and made him do tackling sessions with Ukuma Ta'ai....it would also be why Johnsosn did interviews on this very subject and it was widely acknowledged that he put in more efforts in subsequent games till the end of season 2011 ( from Johnson himself in post game interviews ).
Re Johnson's size : the only disadvantage of being a bigger player when tackling is having less agility....that doesn't apply in this players case...he's got agility and size = the deficiency is technical / mental = it is repairable.
Irrespective of the stats , last year The torch went on Johnson and he reconed that helped his game , this year he's Impervious to criticism around here....doesn't make sense imo.
 
Thanks for the reply ; It doesn't make sense to Criticise one half in a thread if the other half has the same deficiencies and nothing is said. No one is disputing Johnsons Positives , personally i Think he is young enough to learn to improve his tackling before this soft area of his game is entrenched in his thinking.
That would be why CLeary dropped him in the Tigers game last year and made him do tackling sessions with Ukuma Ta'ai....it would also be why Johnsosn did interviews on this very subject and it was widely acknowledged that he put in more efforts in subsequent games till the end of season 2011 ( from Johnson himself in post game interviews ).
Re Johnson's size : the only disadvantage of being a bigger player when tackling is having less agility....that doesn't apply in this players case...he's got agility and size = the deficiency is technical / mental = it is repairable.
Irrespective of the stats , last year The torch went on Johnson and he reconed that helped his game , this year he's Impervious to criticism around here....doesn't make sense imo.


I think Johnsons defense is being looked at the same as Tupou's all round game is....they are both steadily improving, and while not excellent, they are improving all
the time, which is hard to criticize. whereas Maloney's defense seems to be at the same level as last year if not worse...his cover defense is definitely less effective,
so he cops a bit more heat.
 
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