Podcast Fonzie Talks Warriors - Ep 2.7

bangbros18

1st Grade Fringe
May 20, 2019
1,644
Good podcast as always fonzie!

Talking about edge defense, I don't pretend to know anything but when a team decides to go up and in, say it's the right edge doing this, what is the left side doing to set up for when the play comes the other way? Is it the whole team is playing up and in on a set or is it a 80min strategy?

Also on the halves, I really would love to see Paul Turner get a go. I would like your idea of having kodi on the ball and maybe just maybe reconnecting with katoa, that combo was looking so deadly last year and I feel he has suffered a bit this year without kodi. Paul Turner playing a roving half role on both sides with kodi could actually be very dangerous.

Anyways hope the family is all good bro and yes agree we need to beat these teams at the bottom to hold on to any chance when the cavalry arrives.

 

Fonzie

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 22, 2018
688
Good podcast as always fonzie!

Talking about edge defense, I don't pretend to know anything but when a team decides to go up and in, say it's the right edge doing this, what is the left side doing to set up for when the play comes the other way? Is it the whole team is playing up and in on a set or is it a 80min strategy?

Also on the halves, I really would love to see Paul Turner get a go. I would like your idea of having kodi on the ball and maybe just maybe reconnecting with katoa, that combo was looking so deadly last year and I feel he has suffered a bit this year without kodi. Paul Turner playing a roving half role on both sides with kodi could actually be very dangerous.

Anyways hope the family is all good bro and yes agree we need to beat these teams at the bottom to hold on to any chance when the cavalry arrives.

Cheers mate

On the defence, I don't think there's and hard and fast rules, you see some teams play 'up and in' against certain attacking shapes/teams and sliding for others, but most have a preferred style. You could have one edge that prefers to come up and in and the other that doesn't (like we seem to at the moment).

I haven't written off SOS yet and we need his kicking game, so I can understand why he's there for now. But if his D stays suspect at some point soon its time to get Pauly T up there, would love to see it!
 

BeastMode

Warriors 1st Grader
Mar 7, 2015
7,307
Personally, I’m not a fan of the up and in. If you look at the last play in the Canberra game, that’s exactly what they did with Fus coming in to try and kill the ball. He completely butchered that play which resulted in a huge overlap and near obvious try if it wasn’t for RTS superman heroics.

My understanding of up and in is to kill space and effectively stop the ball reaching the outside. It’s high risk for the obvious reason as mentioned in the Canberra example. I think the most effective way to implement this style is when the opposition backs stand shallow. This makes the distance between you and the offensive line much shorter, therefore easier for the tackler to reach his target. Up and in isn’t going to work against a deep attacking backline. Better to slide and wait for the A to reach you in my opinion.

I’m much more a fan of a sliding defence. The question then becomes spacing between defenders. If too compressed the attacking half will be eyeing where the gap is. If too spread, it’s makes for an easy offload before the second man comes it. Both styles have their advantages and flaws. It really depends on the moment. SOS was definitely a contributor to the Tedesco try. It was genius and opportunistic of Tedsco to see the Egan - SOS partnering and take full advantage of it. I definitely don’t think it was planned, just a function of that combination at that moment in D.

I think if you become a predictable team on D whether it’s sliding or up and in, there’s enough video tape for teams to figure out and exploit that weakness. If Fus is always up and in, while Ken’s side slides, then it’s a weakness. Again, it fundamentally comes down to football IQ and how well players react to split second decisions. Defence is a fine art. How to tackle, when to tackle, where to tackle.. and timing. We spend way too much time only seeing the attacking art of the sport in video highlights, and not enough time appreciating defence. Good podcast. Rant over.
 

BeastMode

Warriors 1st Grader
Mar 7, 2015
7,307
Personally, I’m not a fan of the up and in. If you look at the last play in the Canberra game, that’s exactly what they did with Fus coming in to try and kill the ball. He completely butchered that play which resulted in a huge overlap and near obvious try if it wasn’t for RTS superman heroics.

My understanding of up and in is to kill space and effectively stop the ball reaching the outside. It’s high risk for the obvious reason as mentioned in the Canberra example. I think the most effective way to implement this style is when the opposition backs stand shallow. This makes the distance between you and the offensive line much shorter, therefore easier for the tackler to reach his target. Up and in isn’t going to work against a deep attacking backline. Better to slide and wait for the A to reach you in my opinion.

I’m much more a fan of a sliding defence. The question then becomes spacing between defenders. If too compressed the attacking half will be eyeing where the gap is. If too spread, it’s makes for an easy offload before the second man comes it. Both styles have their advantages and flaws. It really depends on the moment. SOS was definitely a contributor to the Tedesco try. It was genius and opportunistic of Tedsco to see the Egan - SOS partnering and take full advantage of it. I definitely don’t think it was planned, just a function of that combination at that moment in D.

I think if you become a predictable team on D whether it’s sliding or up and in, there’s enough video tape for teams to figure out and exploit that weakness. If Fus is always up and in, while Ken’s side slides, then it’s a weakness. Again, it fundamentally comes down to football IQ and how well players react to split second decisions. Defence is a fine art. How to tackle, when to tackle, where to tackle.. and timing. We spend way too much time only seeing the attacking art of the sport in video highlights, and not enough time appreciating defence. Good podcast. Rant over.
And having just ranted about being a fan of the sliding D, when you’re close to the line, like 5m out, absolutely up and in has to be the mode of D.

Someone needs to tell Ken. He was in sliding D mode which gave Brett Morris an open invite to the try line.

If you’re reading this Ken.

Up and In!!! FFS!!!
 

Warrior

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 4, 2014
64
Personally, I’m not a fan of the up and in. If you look at the last play in the Canberra game, that’s exactly what they did with Fus coming in to try and kill the ball. He completely butchered that play which resulted in a huge overlap and near obvious try if it wasn’t for RTS superman heroics.

I can't agree with this - the overlap was already there well before it got to the wing. If Fus had just stayed on Rapana, they give the ball to Wighton or Croker who stroll over. Fus at least forced a long loopy pass which gave Rog just enough time to get across.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HoRneT041

BeastMode

Warriors 1st Grader
Mar 7, 2015
7,307
I can't agree with this - the overlap was already there well before it got to the wing. If Fus had just stayed on Rapana, they give the ball to Wighton or Croker who stroll over. Fus at least forced a long loopy pass which gave Rog just enough time to get across.
1617885635145.jpeg

Yes there was multiple overlaps but there wasn’t a lot of space. If Fus kept his line and waited for the sliding defenders to come across, I think we could have repelled them back. RTS came out of nowhere to stop that corner touch down.

I just watched Fus on the replay multiple times (have a look yourself). He jogs... literally just jogs up to the Canberra line, then stops dead in his tracks, flat footed, eyes completely locked on the ball carrier. Zero awareness of what was behind him. He was in no-mans land. The worst possible position as a defender. Flat footed, neither here nor there. What exactly was he trying to do? Williams saw this and did the skip over pass. Would he have done it if Ken stayed back and let his inside cover come across??By virtue of the fact it was not a try, you could argue it was the right thing to do. But the analytics in me says he executed a very very poor up and in defensive move. With limited space for the overlap to be fully effective, a sliding defensive line may have been a better decision. We got lucky for once.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Fonzie

Warrior

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 4, 2014
64
Yeah to clarify, I'm certainly not saying that Fus defended that perfectly or even particularly well. I just get frustrated by people always blaming the winger coming in when so often the problem is a lot further infield.

Even in that screenshot I don't really see a position Fus could be where I wouldn't back Canberra to score 90% of the time. It was certainly a lot more arse than class that we survived that
 

Upcoming Match

St George Dragons Netstrata Jubilee Stadium, Sydney

Last Game

09 Apr

12 - 13
5.0 Total Avg Rating
4.6 Your Avg Rating

Highest Rated Player

Lowest Rated Player

Compiled from 22 ratings