Lord Gnome of Howick MBE
mt.wellington
Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
England team acclimatising before the RLWC13 by training in South Africa 
...
Team training and coach Steve McNamara...
James Graham and Gareth Widdop...
Golden Boot winner Kevin Sinfield and Leroy Cudjoe with Tom Briscoe...
...Team training and coach Steve McNamara...
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mt.wellington
Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
SkinnyRavs82
Sup42
They're every chance this time around.
I rate them evens with us as far as chances go and that's always been the case except this time around hopefully for England fans they don't blow it with the ill discipline.
We know full well that it comes down to beating Australia , and for both squads beating Australia requires discipline.
If you give the Aussies more than their fair share of ball you're not in the contest.
Same applies to playing England or New Zealand.
It's test match footy three teams , one favorite , smart footy evens up the contest.
Low Errors , no thuggery or cheap penalties.
Aussie don't entertain error prone footballers , they don't allow ill disciplined players to lose games for them , they ride the reffs nad carry the advantage of their reputation.
For mine if we pick error prone players in the final seventeen or allow brain explosions we'll exit early , same applies to the Poms.
Selection has to be based on class , not reps or potential.
If McNamara and Kearny can't sort out test match type footballers ( classy professionals ) from the chaff forget about it.
I rate them evens with us as far as chances go and that's always been the case except this time around hopefully for England fans they don't blow it with the ill discipline.
We know full well that it comes down to beating Australia , and for both squads beating Australia requires discipline.
If you give the Aussies more than their fair share of ball you're not in the contest.
Same applies to playing England or New Zealand.
It's test match footy three teams , one favorite , smart footy evens up the contest.
Low Errors , no thuggery or cheap penalties.
Aussie don't entertain error prone footballers , they don't allow ill disciplined players to lose games for them , they ride the reffs nad carry the advantage of their reputation.
For mine if we pick error prone players in the final seventeen or allow brain explosions we'll exit early , same applies to the Poms.
Selection has to be based on class , not reps or potential.
If McNamara and Kearny can't sort out test match type footballers ( classy professionals ) from the chaff forget about it.
mt.wellington
Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
Sup42
Sam Tomkins confident that England will pull-off 'something special' as they prepare for Rugby League World Cup
The former Wigan Warriors full-back, who has announced he has joined NRL side New Zealand Warriors, believes this is the most talented England squad he has been a part of
Ian Laybourn
Tuesday 15 October 2013
England are in the best possible shape to make an impact in the World Cup, according to full-back Sam Tomkins.
With the tournament kick-off just 11 days away, national coach Steve McNamara was on Tuesday wrapping up the squad's high-altitude training camp in South Africa and Tomkins hailed it as a tremendous success.
"Everyone is enjoying it," the 2012 Man of Steel said. "Getting a bit of sun on our backs is nice.
"But the training has been intense and I think everyone has got a lot from it.
"The facilities here are world class and I think we're very fortunate. We've everything we need, this is the best preparation we could possibly have."
McNamara will finalise his side's preparations for their opening group game with favourites Australia, who are due to arrive in Manchester on Tuesday morning, with a warm-up game against Italy at Salford on Saturday.
He will cast his eye over all but two members of his 24-strong squad - the suspended Ben Westwood and injured Sean O'Loughlin are the only absentees - and Tomkins says he has never known such competition for places.
"It's definitely the most competitive I've ever seen," he said. "Every position is up for grabs and you can see the intensity picking up as the camp draws to a close.
"This is probably the best England team I've been involved in. We've got bags of potential and, if everyone can perform to their potential, I think we can do something special.
"The preparation over the last few years has been building up to the World Cup, with the England Knights and the ETS (elite training squad), and everything has clicked into place to get us into the best possible shape.
"To win the World Cup would mean absolutely everything to me. I've been lucky enough to win trophies with Wigan but I would certainly swap them to win the World Cup."
Tomkins played alongside older brother Joel for England in the 2010 Four Nations Series and he is hoping to be on the same pitch as younger sibling Logan at Salford on Saturday.
Sam is likely to get some game time against Italy while Logan has been called into the England Knights squad for the friendly with Samoa, which will be played as a curtain raiser.
"I'm over the moon with Logan's selection," said Sam. "He's worked really hard this year and played quite a number of games so to get this call-up for the Knights is huge for him.
"He's still very young and he's only going to get better. For him to hopefully get a taste of it this week will put him in good stead for the future."
PA[DOUBLEPOST=1381845337][/DOUBLEPOST]^^^^ first article to state " Former Wigan Warrior "
End of an amazing era for Wigan and Sam Tomkins.
The former Wigan Warriors full-back, who has announced he has joined NRL side New Zealand Warriors, believes this is the most talented England squad he has been a part of
Ian Laybourn
Tuesday 15 October 2013
England are in the best possible shape to make an impact in the World Cup, according to full-back Sam Tomkins.
With the tournament kick-off just 11 days away, national coach Steve McNamara was on Tuesday wrapping up the squad's high-altitude training camp in South Africa and Tomkins hailed it as a tremendous success.
"Everyone is enjoying it," the 2012 Man of Steel said. "Getting a bit of sun on our backs is nice.
"But the training has been intense and I think everyone has got a lot from it.
"The facilities here are world class and I think we're very fortunate. We've everything we need, this is the best preparation we could possibly have."
McNamara will finalise his side's preparations for their opening group game with favourites Australia, who are due to arrive in Manchester on Tuesday morning, with a warm-up game against Italy at Salford on Saturday.
He will cast his eye over all but two members of his 24-strong squad - the suspended Ben Westwood and injured Sean O'Loughlin are the only absentees - and Tomkins says he has never known such competition for places.
"It's definitely the most competitive I've ever seen," he said. "Every position is up for grabs and you can see the intensity picking up as the camp draws to a close.
"This is probably the best England team I've been involved in. We've got bags of potential and, if everyone can perform to their potential, I think we can do something special.
"The preparation over the last few years has been building up to the World Cup, with the England Knights and the ETS (elite training squad), and everything has clicked into place to get us into the best possible shape.
"To win the World Cup would mean absolutely everything to me. I've been lucky enough to win trophies with Wigan but I would certainly swap them to win the World Cup."
Tomkins played alongside older brother Joel for England in the 2010 Four Nations Series and he is hoping to be on the same pitch as younger sibling Logan at Salford on Saturday.
Sam is likely to get some game time against Italy while Logan has been called into the England Knights squad for the friendly with Samoa, which will be played as a curtain raiser.
"I'm over the moon with Logan's selection," said Sam. "He's worked really hard this year and played quite a number of games so to get this call-up for the Knights is huge for him.
"He's still very young and he's only going to get better. For him to hopefully get a taste of it this week will put him in good stead for the future."
PA[DOUBLEPOST=1381845337][/DOUBLEPOST]^^^^ first article to state " Former Wigan Warrior "
End of an amazing era for Wigan and Sam Tomkins.
Sup42
snake77
This England team is a lot stronger then it has been in recent years. We have had a hard enough time getting past them in Tri Nations tournaments so the Kangaroos vs Kiwis final isn't a given.
Hopefully they perform on home soil so international league gets a big boost. For a Kiwis point of view hopefully I don't regret that last statement.
A England vs NZ final would probably be the best out come for the international game.
Hopefully they perform on home soil so international league gets a big boost. For a Kiwis point of view hopefully I don't regret that last statement.
A England vs NZ final would probably be the best out come for the international game.
RidingPie
The last few years Super League has been doing what it should have been doing from the start, producing players at a higher level to bring through in to the international competition. I think this has had a lot to do with the reduced quota's (though its so complex with the federation trained thing and all the exemptions around it I couldn't explain it). My only worry is that the disruptions coming in the domestic game may hamper that in future!
I am really looking forward to the WC though. For me the big steps we need to take are the mentality of the team. We always seem to have a "It would be nice if we could win" against the aussies mentality. Hopefully some of the newer breed, the two Sam's (Tomkins and Burgess) won't have that and can spur the other kids on.
I'd love nothing more than an England vs NZ final, doubt we'll get it though. The crowd would actually believe we could win (the can't beat the aussies thing permeates to the supporters as well) and would be noisy as hell, and whoever did win, it would shake the international scene up massively, which lets be honest it needs. We just both need to beat the aussies first!
I am really looking forward to the WC though. For me the big steps we need to take are the mentality of the team. We always seem to have a "It would be nice if we could win" against the aussies mentality. Hopefully some of the newer breed, the two Sam's (Tomkins and Burgess) won't have that and can spur the other kids on.
I'd love nothing more than an England vs NZ final, doubt we'll get it though. The crowd would actually believe we could win (the can't beat the aussies thing permeates to the supporters as well) and would be noisy as hell, and whoever did win, it would shake the international scene up massively, which lets be honest it needs. We just both need to beat the aussies first!
Sup42
RidingPie I took the liberty of cutting and pasting your post in the Kiwis Thread because you raise some good points as always.I had thought at one stage ESL was going to get rid of the grubbier elements, but anyone who watched our grand final (and I've done so several times now :-D ) can clearly see its not happened... Ben Westwood only got a 1 match ban for that deliberate punch which fractured Blake Green's sinus, which speaks volumes sadly.
My biggest concern for England is that MacBanana (as we've christened our coach) has put too many Leeds players in and essentially based the team around a 32 year old loose forward who he will play at stand off. For my money, if Sinfield is in, it should be as loose forward (though I think O'Loughlin is better) with Brough in to the halves. Ablett and Burrows shouldn't be in the squad let alone the team.
And if I'm honest, though he's a good player, I wouldn't have Chase in there either. Although... this may be better on the English thread
Sam T on the other hand will do what he always does and look to exploit weaknesses and test defenders. He's had to take lots of the rough stuff over the years... incidentally have you ever seen anyone score while they are unconscious? If not here you go... Sam against Bradford
Coaching bias for certain clubs / players they know is a real pain. New Zealand has been hampered internationally by an era when NZWarriors Coaches got the nod by virtue of being NZ club based.
We're seeing what I think could be a concerning swing back towards that trend with Ivan Cleary ( our last coach ) being roped in as assistant coach this time around ( I'd be happier if Ivan was coaching an NRL power house club like Manly or the Roosters ).
Having said that we're lucky that Kearney keeps his iron in a lot of fires , being ex Warriors / Storm / Eels / now Broncos means he has a wider view than what we've had in the past.
Why is Macbanana so Leeds top heavy ?
Ben Westwoods one game ban is a joke , any chance that it's world cup politics related ?
Plenty of Kiwi fans grumble about a history of Kiwis fronting the Judiciary and being banned whilst Kangaroos walk free for dishing up far worse in the Origin.
One thing Kearney has done this time around is stack the selections with players who featured in the finals of the NRL , especially rewarding the winners.
RidingPie
Thanks... I should have brought it in to here myself! guess I was being lazy (or actually doing some work ... take your pick!)
McBanana played for Hull, Bradford and Wakefield, and went on to coach (highly UNsuccessfully) Bradford. I'm not sure what the bias is towards Leeds, maybe he just likes their style of play?
However, when you see that the squad has (from memory so might be slightly out) 6 Leeds players, 5 from Wigan and only 1 from Huddersfield and 2 from Warrington (the top 4 in SL this year, for those who don't know/care/remember was 1- Huddersfield 2- Warrington 3- Leeds 4- Wigan), something looks wrong. Now its often been said that both Leeds and Wigan weren't bothered where they finished inside the top 4 and rested players to get there so they were fresh for the play offs, and this is a fair observation I think. That said Huddersfield have been hard done by, Brough should have been in the squad (for me instead of either Chase or Burrows), and frankly I'm surprised Crabtree wasn't as well. As for Warrington I'd have thought Myler would have been a good shout for the squad at least.
I suspect that the Westwood ban was probably down to him being picked for England, but I think in the GF Wigan showed his big weakness and you guys and the Aussies will how have picked up on it. He is only a 40 min player and for one of your second rowers I expect a better stint than that.
I've often thought a better way of policing bans would be for the club fouled by the player being banned getting to choose whether one of the matches he is banned for is suspended until he next plays them, which would carry across even if the player changed clubs. That might be needlessly gimicky but I'm often annoyed that bans don't help the club that was fouled.
I suspect unless he wins McBanana's time may be up as English coach after the WC. We have a better generation of British coaches following him and unless they nicked Wane from us I think they would all be an improvement.
guess I was being lazy (or actually doing some work ... take your pick!)McBanana played for Hull, Bradford and Wakefield, and went on to coach (highly UNsuccessfully) Bradford. I'm not sure what the bias is towards Leeds, maybe he just likes their style of play?
However, when you see that the squad has (from memory so might be slightly out) 6 Leeds players, 5 from Wigan and only 1 from Huddersfield and 2 from Warrington (the top 4 in SL this year, for those who don't know/care/remember was 1- Huddersfield 2- Warrington 3- Leeds 4- Wigan), something looks wrong. Now its often been said that both Leeds and Wigan weren't bothered where they finished inside the top 4 and rested players to get there so they were fresh for the play offs, and this is a fair observation I think. That said Huddersfield have been hard done by, Brough should have been in the squad (for me instead of either Chase or Burrows), and frankly I'm surprised Crabtree wasn't as well. As for Warrington I'd have thought Myler would have been a good shout for the squad at least.
I suspect that the Westwood ban was probably down to him being picked for England, but I think in the GF Wigan showed his big weakness and you guys and the Aussies will how have picked up on it. He is only a 40 min player and for one of your second rowers I expect a better stint than that.
I've often thought a better way of policing bans would be for the club fouled by the player being banned getting to choose whether one of the matches he is banned for is suspended until he next plays them, which would carry across even if the player changed clubs. That might be needlessly gimicky but I'm often annoyed that bans don't help the club that was fouled.
I suspect unless he wins McBanana's time may be up as English coach after the WC. We have a better generation of British coaches following him and unless they nicked Wane from us I think they would all be an improvement.
RidingPie
and to add to the thread... here's the England team to face Italy on Saturday (which I don't think is being televised)
14. Josh Charnley (Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Patricks)
15. Kallum Watkins (Leeds Rhinos, Latchford Albion)
16. Gareth Widdop (Melbourne Storm, King Cross)
17. Rob Burrow (Leeds Rhinos, Featherstone Lions)
18. Chris Hill (Warrington Wolves, New Spring Lions)
19. James Roby (St Helens, Blackbrook)
20. George Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs, Dewsbury Moor)
My fears are realised about Sinfield (although at 7 not 6) and Ablett in the team. Other than that its pretty good. Hock will give anyone we play at least 2 penalties through brain farts but he's a real handful on the ball. The pack looks pretty immense and I don't think we'll be intimidated by anyone with those guys out there, although I've had had G Burgess higher in the pecking order. I'm slightly surprised Charnley is on the bench, Briscoe is good, but maybe his recent signing for Leeds has helped.
- Sam Tomkins (Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Patricks)
- Ryan Hall (Leeds Rhinos, Oulton Raiders)
- Carl Ablett (Leeds Rhinos, Hunslet Parkside)
- Leroy Cudjoe (Huddersfield Giants, Newsome Panthers)
- Tom Briscoe (Hull FC, Featherstone Lions)
- Rangi Chase (Castleford Tigers, Dannevirke Tigers)
- Kevin Sinfield, captain (Leeds Rhinos, Waterhead)
- James Graham (Canterbury Bulldogs, Blackbrook)
- Michael McIlorum (Wigan Warriors, Queens)
- Lee Mossop (Wigan Warriors, Hensingham)
- Gareth Hock (Widnes Vikings, Wigan St Judes)
- Liam Farrell (Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Patricks)
- Sam Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs, Dewsbury Moor)
14. Josh Charnley (Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Patricks)
15. Kallum Watkins (Leeds Rhinos, Latchford Albion)
16. Gareth Widdop (Melbourne Storm, King Cross)
17. Rob Burrow (Leeds Rhinos, Featherstone Lions)
18. Chris Hill (Warrington Wolves, New Spring Lions)
19. James Roby (St Helens, Blackbrook)
20. George Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs, Dewsbury Moor)
My fears are realised about Sinfield (although at 7 not 6) and Ablett in the team. Other than that its pretty good. Hock will give anyone we play at least 2 penalties through brain farts but he's a real handful on the ball. The pack looks pretty immense and I don't think we'll be intimidated by anyone with those guys out there, although I've had had G Burgess higher in the pecking order. I'm slightly surprised Charnley is on the bench, Briscoe is good, but maybe his recent signing for Leeds has helped.
Sup42
I was suprised to see Eorl Crabtree left out , one of my favorite players. I've only seen England play once ( seen Great Britain more often in the days of Hanley and Offiah ) the best England players on that day were
1) Tomkins
Daylight
2) Crabtree
3) Sam Burgess
Eorls such a giant of a human being to contain , Englands pack with him in their would have dwarfed the Kiwis and Aussies and as we've seen in the NRL this year , big bastard Forwards are back on the menu for League dominance if you can complement them with a slick backline.
no Salary cap in the World cup , best thing about it , some really super stacked sides in the big three and look out for Tonga they are looking the goods to do a lot of damage imo.
Tonga might take one of the big boys down , most scoff at that but when they fire up they are demons of football /speed/ Power / Skill / and scrambling defense in their best games.
Here I go crossing threads again. But seriously look out for Tonga.[DOUBLEPOST=1382008536][/DOUBLEPOST]
1) Tomkins
Daylight
2) Crabtree
3) Sam Burgess
Eorls such a giant of a human being to contain , Englands pack with him in their would have dwarfed the Kiwis and Aussies and as we've seen in the NRL this year , big bastard Forwards are back on the menu for League dominance if you can complement them with a slick backline.
no Salary cap in the World cup , best thing about it , some really super stacked sides in the big three and look out for Tonga they are looking the goods to do a lot of damage imo.
Tonga might take one of the big boys down , most scoff at that but when they fire up they are demons of football /speed/ Power / Skill / and scrambling defense in their best games.
Here I go crossing threads again. But seriously look out for Tonga.[DOUBLEPOST=1382008536][/DOUBLEPOST]
Bloody hell George Burgess and Josh Charnley on the bench , both those players would get a walk up start for NZ
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mt.wellington
Warriors Orange Peeler
Contributor
Only just looked at the England team properly now and I have to say, thats a cracking team. That is surprising to see Charnley and Gurgess off the bench. What a killer prop rotation. Definitely the best lineup in years.
Rangi Chase's junior club cracks me up...
RidingPie
I agree I really can't understand why the leagues top try scorer for the past two seasons can't get in to the England team... as good as Briscoe, from an opposition point of view I'd be more worried with Hall and Charnley as the English wingers (but ooooh to have a young, in form Offiah!).
As for G Burgess when I've watched the NRL this year its seemed he's been bouncing other forwards on a regular basis, maybe McBanana just doesn't have premier sports!
As for G Burgess when I've watched the NRL this year its seemed he's been bouncing other forwards on a regular basis, maybe McBanana just doesn't have premier sports!
Sup42
An Englishman called Rangi did it for me LOL
Bit Like Feeny playing for us ( Lot like it in fact ) the Maori in me says he'd better play well for England if that makes sense lol
Rangi you hear me cuz ? play hard mate.
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