General Election 2011

Who will you vote for?

  • Green

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ACT

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Maori Party

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Unitede Future

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Progressive Party

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mana Party

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Alliance

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Conservative Party of New Zealand

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NZ Democrats

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kiwi Party

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Libertarianz

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • New Citizen Party

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • New Zealand First

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    9

Northern_Union

Guest
So with the election only a matter of weeks away and with the forum being on the quiet side i thought i'd kick off the conversation.

For me i can't vote National again this time around for several reasons. Number one reason being that selling assets is short sighted thing to do and an option that has a proven track record of being bad for the New Zealand consumer in terms of price hikes that i don't believe would have happened if the state had retained control of state assetts.
Secondly the National party seems to be all about John Key. They are even branding themselves as John Key and National. I want a party with more substance than that.

So theres a couple of reasons i wont vote National again. Throw up any opinions of your own you may have.
 

danpatmac_old

Guest
I agree with the above and added to that:

I resent New Zealand constantly being referred to as an economy by the PM and his party, not a society or community or country. This is an ideological position that I'm very uncomfortable with.

I think that some of the decisions this government have made have been extremely short-sighted and in some cases immoral (copyright infringement guilt on accusation, mainstreaming of special needs students, changing of employment law etc)

I simply have no trust in and an extreme dislike for the public persona of John Key.
 

Spence_old

Guest
John Key is obviously a very good business man, so why does he want to sell assests? There must be a reason. Is it a short term gain, hence looks good while he's in power?
 

Northern_Union

Guest
Actually the 90 day trial in something that really pisses me off and being able to fire people without giving a reason is wrong. I've worked for good bosses and i've worked for bad and i know damn well that there are bosses out there that will use and abuse this law. Another strike again National.
Don't get me wrong, i've proudly voted National the last two elections but i wont be this time around.
 

Northern_Union

Guest
John Key is obviously a very good business man, so why does he want to sell assests? There must be a reason. Is it a short term gain, hence looks good while he's in power?

To be honest i disgree with your assertion that Key was a good businessman, Spence. Key made money in the foreign currency industry and hedge funds. Both of which in no small part have lead us and the rest of the world to the brink of finacial disaster. While i don't blame Key directly for this i see him as part of the reason we all collective hit the skids.
 

Spence_old

Guest
I don't know much about Key, or politics for that matter, I just assumed he was a good business man as he was a millionaire. I won't have much to contribute, but I'll be reading this thread with interest. Always good to learn more about the world.
 

Warrioraholic_old

Guest
I like the 90 day thing, it is or was so so hard to get rid of people before. Some people just dont care or dont want to be at work, but try and get rid of them and they could be one of the best lawyers in the country and will bleed you dry. Guess it goes both ways. If a boss thinks your good enough, why would he want to get rid of you?

What im confused about is the mmp, first past the post etc, does someone want to touch on that and explain the why and why nots of each
 

danpatmac_old

Guest
What im confused about is the mmp, first past the post etc, does someone want to touch on that and explain the why and why nots of each

I believe the referendum is:

The first question asks whether you want to keep MMP (which is the voting system we use at the moment) or whether you want to change to another voting system.

The second question asks which of four other voting systems you would choose if New Zealand decides to change from MMP.

Here is a summary of each system:
MMP – Mixed Member Proportional

This is the system we currently use to elect our Parliament.

There are 120 Members of Parliament (MPs). There are 70 electorates, including the Maori electorates. Each elects one MP, called an Electorate MP. The other 50 MPs are elected from political party lists and are called List MPs.

Each voter gets two votes.

The first vote is for the political party the voter chooses. This is called the party vote and largely decides the total number of seats each political party gets in Parliament.

The second vote is to choose the MP the voter wants to represent the electorate they live in. This is called the electorate vote. The candidate who gets the most votes wins. They do not have to get more than half the votes.

Under current MMP rules, a political party that wins at least one electorate seat OR 5% of the party vote gets a share of the seats in Parliament that is about the same as its share of the party vote. For example, if a party gets 30% of the party vote it will get roughly 36 MPs in Parliament (being 30% of 120 seats). So if that party wins 20 electorate seats it will have 16 List MPs in addition to its 20 Electorate MPs.

Coalitions or agreements between political parties are usually needed before Governments can be formed.

FPP - First Past the Post

There are 120 Members of Parliament. Each of the 120 electorates, including the Maori electorates, elects one MP.

Each voter has one vote to choose the MP they want to represent the electorate they live in. The candidate who gets the most votes wins. They do not have to get more than half the votes.

The winning party usually wins a share of the seats in Parliament larger than its share of all the votes across the country. Smaller parties usually receive a smaller share of seats than their share of all the votes.

A government can usually be formed without the need for coalitions or agreements between parties.

PV - Preferential Voting

There are 120 Members of Parliament. Each of the 120 electorates, including the Maori electorates, elects one MP.

Each voter ranks the candidates – 1, 2, 3, etc – in the order they prefer them.

A candidate who gets more than half of all the first preference votes (that is votes marked “1”) wins.

If no candidate gets more than half the first preference votes, the candidate with the fewest number “1” votes is eliminated and their votes go to the candidates each voter ranked next.

This process is repeated until one candidate has more than half the votes.

The winning party usually wins a share of the seats in Parliament larger than its share of all the votes across the country. It is hard for smaller parties to win seats in Parliament, but votes for smaller party candidates may influence who wins the seat because of second, third, etc preferences.

A government can usually be formed without the need for coalitions or agreements between parties.

STV - Single Transferable Vote

There are 120 Members of Parliament. Each electorate has more than one MP. This includes the Maori electorates. It is likely the 120 MPs would be divided between 24 and 30 electorates, each with 3 to 7 MPs.

Each voter has a single vote that is transferable. Voters either rank the individual candidates – 1, 2, 3, etc – in the order they prefer from all the candidates, OR they may vote for the order of preference published in advance by the political party of their choice.

MPs are elected by receiving a minimum number of votes. This is known as the quota and is based on the number of votes in each electorate and the number of MPs to be elected.

Candidates who reach the quota from first preference votes are elected.

If there are still electorate seats to fill, a two-step process follows.

First, votes the elected candidates received beyond the quota are transferred to the candidates ranked next on those votes. Candidates who then reach the quota are elected.

Second, if there are still electorate seats to fill, the lowest polling candidate is eliminated and their votes are transferred to the candidates ranked next on those votes.

This two-step process is repeated until all the seats are filled.

The number of MPs elected from each political party usually mirrors the party’s share of all the votes across the country.

Coalitions or agreements between political parties are usually needed before governments can be formed.

SM - Supplementary Member

There are 120 Members of Parliament. There are 90 electorates, including the Maori electorates. Each elects one MP, called an Electorate MP. The other 30 seats are called supplementary seats. MPs are elected to these seats from political party lists and are likely to be called List MPs.

Each voter gets two votes.

The first vote is to choose the MP the voter wants to represent the electorate they live in. This is called the electorate vote. The candidate who gets the most votes wins. They do not have to get more than half the votes.

The second vote is for the political party the voter chooses. This is called the party vote. The share of the 30 supplementary seats each party gets reflects its share of the party vote.

For example, if a party gets 30% of the party vote, it will get about 9 List MPs in Parliament (being 30% of the 30 supplementary seats) no matter how many electorate seats it wins.

This makes SM different from MMP where a party’s share of all 120 seats mirrors its share of the party vote.

One or other of the major parties would usually have enough seats to govern alone, but coalitions or agreements between parties may sometimes be needed.



IN MY OPINION:

I would keep MMP or change to STV.
STV works reasonably well in other countries and it's what we have in N.Ireland where I came from, my old man thought it was the fairest and best system.
 

fanrrior_old

Guest
It depends on whether or not this site has an age minimum. ;)

In all seriousness i'm 15.

If you also want to read my life story here it is.
I happen to have a good vocabulary and had just finished ncea level 2 english today. I'm studying Scholarship for Maori and will pretty much finish school academically a few months after I change 16 if I get enough maths credits. I was also playing league until I had broken my collarbone earlier in the year in a shoulder charge fail. It had only gotten worse since I was acting as if nothing had happened until the game had finished. Oh, me and my mates are basically the only males in our class that doesn't have gay emo/justin beiber hair. My preferred style of humor is sarcasm, insults and terrible puns. So yeah thats my life story. I'd probably be finished school right now if it wasn't for the earthquakes. I got into league thanks to the father of Wairangi Koopu (we just called him Matua or mr). I usually play prop for 15's since i'm pretty big but second-row or centre (in a pinch) for 17's since i'm not that big.

My biggest shame factors are the following:
tripping over a straw when I was 11
at 13 I asked a friend of mine if she'd turn lesbian if her boyfriend cheated on her, only for her boyfriend to cheat on her
The shoulder charge fail
and just today started feeling dizzy in my english test because I forgot to breath

So yeah I'm rather clever in school. But outside of it I have the worst luck.
 

Kat_old

Guest
I will be really annoyed if the Nats win again they have done nothing but deceive us gst? jobs? etc. the 90 day trial is okay but I still don't have a job employers will not take genuine people keen to learn and work hard unless they have " x years experience"...I have never agreed with the "Right Wing" but it makes it difficult this election to go for Labour because Phil Goff worries me a bit( promises of increased DPB, 26 week parental Leave etc. a bit over the top)...they will get my vote anyway...Our Assets, Education,Health system and a rise in minimum wage is important to low income New Zealanders quality of life and the future of our children...anything to boot the Nats
 

Viking_old

Guest
I'd always voted Labour up until the last election where I voted for the Labour candidate in my area but gave National my party vote out of fustration with Labour who IMO, were resting on their laurels. Never again. The tax cut being offset by the rise in GST that National promised wouldn't happen was just a lie.

National point to Key being a good leader during the natural disasters but I'm sure Helen would've done a better job or at least been more decisive. Christchurch residents might beg to differ with National as well.

You don't have to be a good businessman to be rich, just well connected. If Key did make his money from currency trading, you can hardly call that good business or even ethical business as NU already stated.

Selling state assets in areas where it's impossible to have competetion, like rail, is plain ret@rded. Didn't Labour have to buy the Rail networks back for double price National sold it for when the private owners ran the 'business' into the ground?

Goff has the ammo but comes across as blunt instrument. He's always been a strong MP for Roskill though, he could do the job just doesn't have the presence that voters seem to need in a PM. In fact, he'd probably do better if he came across as a bit of a bastard!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Viking_old

Guest
I agree with the above and added to that:

I resent New Zealand constantly being referred to as an economy by the PM and his party, not a society or community or country. This is an ideological position that I'm very uncomfortable with.

I think that some of the decisions this government have made have been extremely short-sighted and in some cases immoral (copyright infringement guilt on accusation, mainstreaming of special needs students, changing of employment law etc)

I simply have no trust in and an extreme dislike for the public persona of John Key.

It seems the first casualty of a National government is always mental health. First it's cuts in funding followed by physcotic and disturbed people slipping through the cracks in the system which then puts them back into mainstream society and eventually ends up with the creation of innocent victims.
 

numbnutsnz_old

Guest
Actually the 90 day trial in something that really pisses me off and being able to fire people without giving a reason is wrong. I've worked for good bosses and i've worked for bad and i know damn well that there are bosses out there that will use and abuse this law. Another strike again National.
Don't get me wrong, i've proudly voted National the last two elections but i wont be this time around.

This has its pros and cons. I dont want us to be like Aussie and be able to fire people willy nilly, but I also dont like how we have to give 100 different written warnings and wait months to sack someone whos doing a crap job.

I have an example of this at work right now. We have had to wait months, record incidents and put up with terrible work ethics, just to have a sniff and getting rid of one of our employees. I myself was reluctant to hire him in the first place but the big dogs did it anyway. 90 days would have been plenty of time to determine he wasn't capable of doing the job and we could have hired someone better by now.
 

numbnutsnz_old

Guest
I will be really annoyed if the Nats win again they have done nothing but deceive us gst? jobs? etc. the 90 day trial is okay but I still don't have a job employers will not take genuine people keen to learn and work hard unless they have " x years experience"...I have never agreed with the "Right Wing" but it makes it difficult this election to go for Labour because Phil Goff worries me a bit( promises of increased DPB, 26 week parental Leave etc. a bit over the top)...they will get my vote anyway...Our Assets, Education,Health system and a rise in minimum wage is important to low income New Zealanders quality of life and the future of our children...anything to boot the Nats

This isnt a personal attack but how hard have you really tried for a job? I have a friend who moved back to Auckland 2 weeks ago and actively started looking for a job and now has 3. There are certainly people really trying but still have no luck finding a job, but theres also people that just write a cv and send it in and wait.

And Labour increasing the minimum wage will only decrease your chances of finding a job. While some people will get the benefits of an extra few bucks an hour, others will suffer by losing their jobs with employers that just cant afford to pay someone $15.
 

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