General Drugs in society

Are you in favour of legalisation of recreational drugs?


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Wot I do know from a kiwi point of view about all this garb is this:

In NZ you would substitute Meth for coke in this story ( Meth is a far dirtier and more dangerous drug in terms of human misery however the players in the coke / Meth worlds are exactly the same type of insect....both have stings that kill ).

Talk of Cartels is well.....there is a Romanticism born out of Hollywood movies.....a label for organised crime syndicates of a certain type which are from the Americas where the product is mass produced.

Tis like saying that the likes of me who owns an IPhone and an IMAC has links to Apple industries....while true in a literal sense it is at times a long bow and tenuous link at best.....however If Macs were illegal....and I were a high profile Mac user then any Police operation would view me as a valuable target.

Some people who post here would have dabbled in Meth....and they will have links by that measure to Triad, Motorcycle Gangs and the other Major Gangs in NZ.

The reason famous people get sullied in Cop operations as serious players when in reality they don't have the time to move large quantities is that their busts are used as poster boys for the War on drugs,

That is the price of Fame and they have no course to complain. High profile folk get nice tables in restaurants....so it follows they get Rogered at times Like this....ergo I have no sympathy.
 
Been offline for a while but this interesting debate has made me feel compelled to comment

Firstly it comes as absolutely no surprise to me whatsoever that these high profile highly paid professional league & union players are using or selling "illicit substances"
In the USA & Europe this practice has been happening for decades in professional sport & is still happening now & will more than likely keep happening for the foreseeable future, so it is only logical that it would be happening in Australasian professional sports as well, the only reason our local pro sportsmen & women here in NZ are not more involved, is in my opinion not due to some form of moral superiority, but is probably more due to our countries geographical isolation, which makes it substantially more difficult to import / smuggle "illicit substances" through our borders

In the case of cocaine usage, it has been scientifically proven that among other things, it can actually be used as a local anesthetic, which would aid an athlete in their recovery period & has far less detrimental effects on the system than alcohol, which basically puts the human body into a state of shock during & after usage, has anyone here ever suffered from a nasty hangover after a night on the turps ? ... that is effectively your body displaying withdrawal symptoms from the devastating effects the drug known as alcohol has on your system, whereas most so called "illicit substances" actually have a far more positive effect on your system in one form or another, relatively speaking

As far as these athletes selling this stuff goes, it is just human nature to want more even if you are already relatively wealthy & there are few products out there that are more profitable than "illicit substances", this is mainly due to prohibition, a United States driven political agenda also known as The War on Drugs, which has spread its insidious dogma into every western political regime in the world, including our own

Prohibition does not & has not ever worked, all it does it create a massive underground black market, which in turn drives the prices of the prohibited substance in question through the roof & when you have a situation like that you will always have people who are willing to take the risk of dealing with that prohibited substance in order to gain the relatively high rewards that become available, all you have to do to see this cause & effect in action is look at the US politically driven implementation of alcohol prohibition from 1920 to 1933, not only did this policy utterly fail in its futile attempt to stop its own citizens enjoying an alcoholic beverage, it also essentially created a huge black market over night, where you had underground "dance halls" that sold alcohol, springing up everywhere, due mainly to budding entrepreneurs taking advantage of this new highly profitable black market, the most famous of these being the Chicago gangster Al Capone, who during his lifetime was marked as Public Enemy No.1 by the US government, but funnily enough is now lauded as a great American icon, this my friends is the epitome of hypocrisy

To those out there who like to jump on their uneducated moral high horses & say "drugs are evil" blah blah blah i would say to you think for yourself & do some actual research on this topic & question authority before you start simply regurgitating government funded propaganda

There is a plethora of scientifically led research that proves most of these "illicit substances" if not all of them, from cannabis to heroine, are not only far less harmful than we are led to believe, but also have properties that are hugely beneficial in their mental, physical & spiritual implementation

Lysergic acid diethylamide, also known as LSD for example, was lauded by the psychiatric community, after its invention by Swiss chemist Albert Hofmann in 1938, as a hugely beneficial tool in helping to treat a range of mental disorders, ranging from depression (or melancholy as it was known back then) to full blown schizophrenia, until it was outlawed by the US in 1968 & most other western nations, including NZ, followed suit after the United Nations Convention on Psychotropic Substances in 1971

Coincidentally, or not, 1968 was also the height of the so called "hippie movement" where a great deal of societal upheaval was highly prevalent, such as Human Rights, Women's Rights, Anti War etc, coincidence ? ... yeah right

In a lot of so called "Third World" countries, where western political policy has not taken root, the use of psychotropic substances, is still relatively wide spread, especially where it has religious or cultural connotation, for example, hashish in India / Asia, ayahusca (a form of Dimethyltryptamine or DMT) in parts of South America, iboga in parts of Africa etc, it has even been theorised, although not conclusively proven, that the genesis of Christianity may have even evolved through the use of psilocybin mushrooms, better known as magic mushrooms, the common thread throughout all these instances is a recognition of the benefits that come through an expansion of consciousness through the use of psychotropic substances

My personal belief is that all "illicit substances" should be fully legalised in the setting of a fully controlled & regulated market for use of consenting adults who have been educated as to the pro's & con's of psychotropic substances, i also very strongly believe that nobody, government, police state, society, NOBODY, has any right whatsoever to tell me what I can or cannot put into my own body, which is under my total sovereignty & any attempt to so is nothing more than draconian

For those who would say "this will create more drug abuse" or "our kids will be able to get their hands in drugs easier" I would say people can abuse anything if they so desire, food, work, relationships, sex etc, its all about education & moderation, but you will always get people who abuse, its just human nature, but prohibition is not the answer, if anything it increases the risk of abuse, same goes for our kids, if you have a fully controlled & regulated market place where our kids are fully educated by the facts & not just told "drugs are evil stay away" (which in my experience only serves to make it all the more enticing to a child) it would be much harder for our kids to get their hands on these psychotropic substances than it is now, eg: look how hard it is for kids to buy alcohol, as it stands under prohibition its actually far easier for a kid to get their hands on drugs than it is alcohol, because one thing I can 100% guarantee is no black market gang funded "tinny house" ever asks "hmmm kid you look a bit young, can i see some ID please" ... like they do in liquor stores

Anyway sorry for the big long rant, but this is a topic very close to my heart & some of the blatant ignorance i saw in these comments compelled my reply, as far as these league & union "drug barons" go, well all i can really say is that I too have absolutely no love for Khunt or Bird, but in this instance I actually feel sorry for them & all the other guys involved

And for those of you who have read all of this & still think "drugs are evil" I leave you with a quote from the late great Bill Hicks .... RIP

“You see, I think drugs have done some good things for us. I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs (and in this day & age all your hard drives lol) and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years were RRREAL fucking high on drugs. The Beatles were so fucking high they let Ringo sing a few tunes.”

Think For Yourself Question Authority & Go The Mighty Warriors for 2015 :D
 
Last edited:
Been offline for a while but this interesting debate has made me feel compelled to comment

Firstly it comes as absolutely no surprise to me whatsoever that these high profile highly paid professional league & union players are using or selling "illicit substances"
In the USA & Europe this practice has been happening for decades in professional sport & is still happening now & will more than likely keep happening for the foreseeable future, so it is only logical that it would be happening in Australasian professional sports as well, the only reason our local pro sportsmen & women here in NZ are not more involved, is in my opinion not due to some form of moral superiority, but is probably more due to our countries geographical isolation, which makes it substantially more difficult to import / smuggle "illicit substances" through our borders

In the case of cocaine usage, it has been scientifically proven that among other things, it can actually be used as a local anesthetic, which would aid an athlete in their recovery period & has far less detrimental effects on the system than alcohol, which basically puts the human body into a state of shock during & after usage, has anyone here ever suffered from a nasty hangover after a night on the turps ? ... that is effectively your body displaying withdrawal symptoms from the devastating effects the drug known as alcohol has on your system, whereas most so called "illicit substances" actually have a far more positive effect on your system in one form or another, relatively speaking

As far as these athletes selling this stuff goes, it is just human nature to want more even if you are already relatively wealthy & there are few products out there that are more profitable than "illicit substances", this is mainly due to prohibition, a United States driven political agenda also known as The War on Drugs, which has spread its insidious dogma into every western political regime in the world, including our own

Prohibition does not & has not ever worked, all it does it create a massive underground black market, which in turn drives the prices of the prohibited substance in question through the roof & when you have a situation like that you will always have people who are willing to take the risk of dealing with that prohibited substance in order to gain the relatively high rewards that become available, all you have to do to see this cause & effect in action is look at the US politically driven implementation of alcohol prohibition from 1920 to 1933, not only did this policy utterly fail in its futile attempt to stop its own citizens enjoying an alcoholic beverage, it also essentially created a huge black market over night, where you had underground "dance halls" that sold alcohol, springing up everywhere, due mainly to budding entrepreneurs taking advantage of this new highly profitable black market, the most famous of these being the Chicago gangster Al Capone, who during his lifetime was marked as Public Enemy No.1 by the US government, but funnily enough is now lauded as a great American icon, this my friends is the epitome of hypocrisy

To those out there who like to jump on their uneducated moral high horses & say "drugs are evil" blah blah blah i would say to you think for yourself & do some actual research on this topic & question authority before you start simply regurgitating government funded propaganda

There is a plethora of scientifically led research that proves most of these "illicit substances" if not all of them, from cannabis to heroin, are not only far less harmful than we are led to believe, but also have properties that are hugely beneficial in their mental, physical & spiritual implementation

Lysergic acid diethylamide, also known as LSD for example, was lauded by the psychiatric community, after its invention by Swiss chemist Albert Hofmann in 1938, as a hugely beneficial tool in helping to treat a range of mental disorders, ranging from depression (or melancholy as it was known back then) to full blown schizophrenia, until it was outlawed by the US in 1968 & most other western nations, including NZ, followed suit after the United Nations Convention on Psychotropic Substances in 1971

Coincidentally, or not, 1968 was also the height of the so called "hippie movement" where a great deal of societal upheaval was highly prevalent, such as Human Rights, Women's Rights, Anti War etc, coincidence ? ... yeah right

In a lot of so called "Third World" countries, where western political policy has not taken root, the use of psychotropic substances, is still relatively wide spread, especially where it has religious or cultural connotation, for example, hashish in India / Asia, ayahusca (a form of Dimethyltryptamine or DMT) in parts of South America, iboga in parts of Africa etc, it has even been theorised, although not conclusively proven, that the genesis of Christianity may have even evolved through the use of psilocybin mushrooms, better known as magic mushrooms, the common thread throughout all these instances is a recognition of the benefits that come through an expansion of consciousness through the use of psychotropic substances

My personal belief is that all "illicit substances" should be fully legalised in the setting of a fully controlled & regulated market for use of consenting adults who have been educated as to the pro's & con's of psychotropic substances, i also very strongly believe that nobody, government, police state, society, NOBODY, has any right whatsoever to tell me what I can or cannot put into my own body, which is under my total sovereignty & any attempt to so is nothing more than draconian

For those who would say "this will create more drug abuse" or "our kids will be able to get their hands in drugs easier" I would say people can abuse anything if they so desire, food, work, relationships, sex etc, its all about education & moderation, but you will always get people who abuse, its just human nature, but prohibition is not the answer, if anything it increases the risk of abuse, same goes for our kids, if you have a fully controlled & regulated market place where our kids are fully educated by the facts & not just told "drugs are evil stay away" (which in my experience only serves to make it all the more enticing to a child) it would be much harder for our kids to get their hands on these psychotropic substances than it is now, eg: look how hard it is for kids to buy alcohol, as it stands under prohibition its actually far easier for a kid to get their hands on drugs than it is alcohol, because one thing I can 100% guarantee is no black market gang funded "tinny house" ever asks "hmmm kid you look a bit young, can i see some ID please" ... like they do in liquor stores

Anyway sorry for the big long rant, but this is a topic very close to my heart & some of the blatant ignorance i saw in these comments compelled my reply, as far as these league & union "drug barons" go, well all i can really say is that I too have absolutely no love for Khunt or Bird, but in this instance I actually feel sorry for them & all the other guys involved

And for those of you who have read all of this & still think "drugs are evil" I leave you with a quote from the late great Bill Hicks .... RIP

“You see, I think drugs have done some good things for us. I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs (and in this day & age all your hard drives lol) and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years were RRREAL fucking high on drugs. The Beatles were so fucking high they let Ringo sing a few tunes.”

Think for Yourself Question Authority & GO THE MIGHTY WARRIORS for 2015 :D

So much to say however, in summary. For each drug e.g. LSD that was banned there were good reasons to do so for health reasons. Talk to a family member whose relative is a P addict and persuade them drugs aren't so bad.

For every great song created by drugs it probably stuffed a bigger number, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison (see I got alcohol in there) etc.

I agree a system of taking whatever drug you want to is OK, as long as user pays as far as the health costs go.

Al Capone was regarded as a murderous mobster then and is now. Interestingly his greatest contribution IMO was to introduce expiry dates on school milk when he sponsored it in Chicago. As a kid in New York he hated the taste of sour milk at school. He was no ones fool, greatest true quote 'You get far further with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone.'

Asking ages of customers. Some dairy owner with a with a liquor licence and booze not moving. What will happen.

In particular methamphetamine is evil, those who move it are encouraging its use by doing so. That for me is enough to ban them for life.

This is an open forum and you are allowed your opinion. However, I strongly disagree.
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
So much to say however, in summary. For each drug e.g. LSD that was banned there were good reasons to do so for health reasons. Talk to a family member whose relative is a P addict and persuade them drugs aren't so bad.

For every great song created by drugs it probably stuffed a bigger number, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison (see I got alcohol in there) etc.

I agree a system of taking whatever drug you want to is OK, as long as user pays as far as the health costs go.

Al Capone was regarded as a murderous mobster then and is now. Interestingly his greatest contribution IMO was to introduce expiry dates on school milk when he sponsored it in Chicago. As a kid in New York he hated the taste of sour milk at school. He was no ones fool, greatest true quote 'You get far further with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone.'

Asking ages of customers. Some dairy owner with a with a liquor licence and booze not moving. What will happen.

In particular methamphetamine is evil, those who move it are encouraging its use by doing so. That for me is enough to ban them for life.

This is an open forum and you are allowed your opinion. However, I strongly disagree.

I have liked both this comment and Stones which while some people would think shows i just blow with the wind is actually because i agree with both.

Personally i dont use, never have any recreational drug except Alcohol. However i do seem to support a large part of the legal drug industry.

My belief is that the drugs are here. They arent going away, policing is not working. The war on Drugs has been lost, mainly because the users out number the critics. Help is rarely available because of the stigma of using illegal substances and the hardship of finding effective treatments.
Legalization would allow tax gathering which could be used in hospitals on the same people who are being treated now, it would allow govt controls for the safety of the user and it would allow real research into what drugs do to the human body and treatment programs (most research funding into narcotics has been from the govt looking specifically for evil, very little is independent).
Lastly a number of incredibly unsafe drugs exist now because they can be made from local supply, yet they were invented because it became hard to get far safer more natural drugs (note i dont say safe). A lot of the time this is what they are made out of or cut with, to maximize profit.

Get the gangs out of the drug business. It can only make the world a better place.

IMO drugs has no business in sport. Sport is like the defn of the ultimate person, the best of the best outside the military arena. Drugs creates a false impression that can be seen and idolized. It is cheating by any name you mention. (this last sentence isnt my best work but i hope the idea comes across).
 
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Been offline for a while but this interesting debate has made me feel compelled to comment

Firstly it comes as absolutely no surprise to me whatsoever that these high profile highly paid professional league & union players are using or selling "illicit substances"
In the USA & Europe this practice has been happening for decades in professional sport & is still happening now & will more than likely keep happening for the foreseeable future, so it is only logical that it would be happening in Australasian professional sports as well, the only reason our local pro sportsmen & women here in NZ are not more involved, is in my opinion not due to some form of moral superiority, but is probably more due to our countries geographical isolation, which makes it substantially more difficult to import / smuggle "illicit substances" through our borders

In the case of cocaine usage, it has been scientifically proven that among other things, it can actually be used as a local anesthetic, which would aid an athlete in their recovery period & has far less detrimental effects on the system than alcohol, which basically puts the human body into a state of shock during & after usage, has anyone here ever suffered from a nasty hangover after a night on the turps ? ... that is effectively your body displaying withdrawal symptoms from the devastating effects the drug known as alcohol has on your system, whereas most so called "illicit substances" actually have a far more positive effect on your system in one form or another, relatively speaking

As far as these athletes selling this stuff goes, it is just human nature to want more even if you are already relatively wealthy & there are few products out there that are more profitable than "illicit substances", this is mainly due to prohibition, a United States driven political agenda also known as The War on Drugs, which has spread its insidious dogma into every western political regime in the world, including our own

Prohibition does not & has not ever worked, all it does it create a massive underground black market, which in turn drives the prices of the prohibited substance in question through the roof & when you have a situation like that you will always have people who are willing to take the risk of dealing with that prohibited substance in order to gain the relatively high rewards that become available, all you have to do to see this cause & effect in action is look at the US politically driven implementation of alcohol prohibition from 1920 to 1933, not only did this policy utterly fail in its futile attempt to stop its own citizens enjoying an alcoholic beverage, it also essentially created a huge black market over night, where you had underground "dance halls" that sold alcohol, springing up everywhere, due mainly to budding entrepreneurs taking advantage of this new highly profitable black market, the most famous of these being the Chicago gangster Al Capone, who during his lifetime was marked as Public Enemy No.1 by the US government, but funnily enough is now lauded as a great American icon, this my friends is the epitome of hypocrisy

To those out there who like to jump on their uneducated moral high horses & say "drugs are evil" blah blah blah i would say to you think for yourself & do some actual research on this topic & question authority before you start simply regurgitating government funded propaganda

There is a plethora of scientifically led research that proves most of these "illicit substances" if not all of them, from cannabis to heroin, are not only far less harmful than we are led to believe, but also have properties that are hugely beneficial in their mental, physical & spiritual implementation

Lysergic acid diethylamide, also known as LSD for example, was lauded by the psychiatric community, after its invention by Swiss chemist Albert Hofmann in 1938, as a hugely beneficial tool in helping to treat a range of mental disorders, ranging from depression (or melancholy as it was known back then) to full blown schizophrenia, until it was outlawed by the US in 1968 & most other western nations, including NZ, followed suit after the United Nations Convention on Psychotropic Substances in 1971

Coincidentally, or not, 1968 was also the height of the so called "hippie movement" where a great deal of societal upheaval was highly prevalent, such as Human Rights, Women's Rights, Anti War etc, coincidence ? ... yeah right

In a lot of so called "Third World" countries, where western political policy has not taken root, the use of psychotropic substances, is still relatively wide spread, especially where it has religious or cultural connotation, for example, hashish in India / Asia, ayahusca (a form of Dimethyltryptamine or DMT) in parts of South America, iboga in parts of Africa etc, it has even been theorised, although not conclusively proven, that the genesis of Christianity may have even evolved through the use of psilocybin mushrooms, better known as magic mushrooms, the common thread throughout all these instances is a recognition of the benefits that come through an expansion of consciousness through the use of psychotropic substances

My personal belief is that all "illicit substances" should be fully legalised in the setting of a fully controlled & regulated market for use of consenting adults who have been educated as to the pro's & con's of psychotropic substances, i also very strongly believe that nobody, government, police state, society, NOBODY, has any right whatsoever to tell me what I can or cannot put into my own body, which is under my total sovereignty & any attempt to so is nothing more than draconian

For those who would say "this will create more drug abuse" or "our kids will be able to get their hands in drugs easier" I would say people can abuse anything if they so desire, food, work, relationships, sex etc, its all about education & moderation, but you will always get people who abuse, its just human nature, but prohibition is not the answer, if anything it increases the risk of abuse, same goes for our kids, if you have a fully controlled & regulated market place where our kids are fully educated by the facts & not just told "drugs are evil stay away" (which in my experience only serves to make it all the more enticing to a child) it would be much harder for our kids to get their hands on these psychotropic substances than it is now, eg: look how hard it is for kids to buy alcohol, as it stands under prohibition its actually far easier for a kid to get their hands on drugs than it is alcohol, because one thing I can 100% guarantee is no black market gang funded "tinny house" ever asks "hmmm kid you look a bit young, can i see some ID please" ... like they do in liquor stores

Anyway sorry for the big long rant, but this is a topic very close to my heart & some of the blatant ignorance i saw in these comments compelled my reply, as far as these league & union "drug barons" go, well all i can really say is that I too have absolutely no love for Khunt or Bird, but in this instance I actually feel sorry for them & all the other guys involved

And for those of you who have read all of this & still think "drugs are evil" I leave you with a quote from the late great Bill Hicks .... RIP

“You see, I think drugs have done some good things for us. I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs (and in this day & age all your hard drives lol) and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years were RRREAL fucking high on drugs. The Beatles were so fucking high they let Ringo sing a few tunes.”

Think for Yourself Question Authority & GO THE MIGHTY WARRIORS for 2015 :D

This bit in particular gets me. I can tell you for a fact, my step brother had NO positive effects from Heroine. It fucked him up and has ruined his life, as well as estranging him from his family. No amount of stoner propaganda will convince me otherwise. All this drivel that comes from the internet and politically opposed fuckwits that "proves" that the reason drugs are a problem is because the western world's governments have conspired to withhold the awesomeness of drugs from us all, while secretly pumped the afore mentioned drugs into many of us to finance the "war on drugs". All of the pro-drugs literature has one thing in common - it is written by drug users and fake anarchists (who both hate everything governments do).

I am all for your suggested legalisation and regulation of drugs, provided you allow your children to sample methamphetimine, and a few other fantastically safe "illicit substances", (I notice you use this term a lot to downplay the damage the word drugs can make to an argument) to prove to us how safe drugs are. Until then, fuck off with your hippy, anarchic drivel!
 
So much to say however, in summary. For each drug e.g. LSD that was banned there were good reasons to do so for health reasons. Talk to a family member whose relative is a P addict and persuade them drugs aren't so bad.

For every great song created by drugs it probably stuffed a bigger number, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison (see I got alcohol in there) etc.

I agree a system of taking whatever drug you want to is OK, as long as user pays as far as the health costs go.

Al Capone was regarded as a murderous mobster then and is now. Interestingly his greatest contribution IMO was to introduce expiry dates on school milk when he sponsored it in Chicago. As a kid in New York he hated the taste of sour milk at school. He was no ones fool, greatest true quote 'You get far further with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone.'

Asking ages of customers. Some dairy owner with a with a liquor licence and booze not moving. What will happen.

In particular methamphetamine is evil, those who move it are encouraging its use by doing so. That for me is enough to ban them for life.

This is an open forum and you are allowed your opinion. However, I strongly disagree.
Very nicely put.

The bit about asking age reminds me of a very good point. When legal highs and synthetic cannibis was fully legal and easily available in R18 shops, it always amused me, in Invercargill, how many school bags were stacked up underneath the sign that said "No school uniforms" outside the legal high shop, and how many school uniforms were visible through the window. These people were supposed to be regulated, yet they totally ignored all of the regulations that were put in place to stop them marketting to under-age kids. We even had a dairy beside a high school with a licence to sell legal highs. The amount of times they lost their rights to sell, yet they would be back selling quicker that Fish could score a try. One shop owner even started selling out of the back door, when his licence was suspended (apparently he must have had a separate licence for the back door?).

All I have to say on the matter now is "Drugs are bad...mmmkay".
 
In particular methamphetamine is evil, those who move it are encouraging its use by doing so. That for me is enough to ban them for life.

This is an open forum and you are allowed your opinion. However, I strongly disagree.
I don't think Meth should be advertised on TV with hot girls and footy players in the adds. But I don't think it should be completely illegal either.

Does the prohibition on Meth (P) stop people manufacturing, distributing and selling it? No.

Do the laws stop people consuming it? No.

The reason for this is that you can't legislate against people's own stupidity... The only way to conquer P is through education... and even then you'll still get fuckups who love it and want to wreck their lives with it. Making it illegal doesn't do anything to stop this. It only makes it cool and dangerous, when it would otherwise be stupid, loser behavior if it was legal...

So why not allow people of consensual age to buy it, in a clean and pure regulated form, with completely plain packaging, with no sexy advertising, and destroy the black market profits and the crime wave that goes with it?

And then direct all the harsh draconian laws at those who supply children and those who use it while at work, driving etc....

I personally would like it to be in a different category to Alcohol, where supplying to minors still carried a nasty long jail sentence... That aspect of the law is completely fine with me...

This might feel like a step backwards, but starting from where we are right now (in reality (I know that's a dirty word for some people)), with Meth rife, available to anyone who want's it and not going away ever, it would be an improvement...
 
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Inruin

Contributor
Does the prohibition on Meth (P) stop people manufacturing, distributing and selling it? No.

Do the laws stop people consuming it? No.

The reason for this is that you can't legislate against people's own stupidity... The only way to conquer P is through education... and even then you'll still get fuckups who love it and want to wreck their lives with it. Making it illegal doesn't do anything to stop this. It only makes it cool and dangerous, when it would otherwise be stupid, loser behavior if it was legal...
I would have to argue against you on this one. Do the laws stop everyone from consuming it? No. Does it stop some people from consuming it? yes.

Why does it have to be illegal or educate as the only choice. In my mind illegal and educate is better. Best.
 
I would have to argue against you on this one. Do the laws stop everyone from consuming it? No. Does it stop some people from consuming it? yes.

Why does it have to be illegal or educate as the only choice. In my mind illegal and educate is better. Best.
Making meth illegal will never stop fuckups demanding it. Because there will always be a dealer hanging around telling everyone how great it is and that their money is well spent. Why is this reality so hard for people to accept? How big are all your rocks that you're all living under?

And I've personally never met a person who said they wouldn't do drugs because they are illegal.

The reasons I hear are because they would interfere with them getting a job (which can still be illegal under controlled legalization) or that they didn't want to be a loser, which has nothing to do with the law (as many see themselves as winning because they are breaking the law)...

Legalize it just enough to destroy the black market and give losers their basic human rights (specifically the right to be a loser as long as they don't hurt anyone else) back and the problem will be minimized to the maximum possible extent...

No more wealthy, dangerous criminal underworld, no more easy access for school kids; just the odd guy here and there who gets busted for breaking the law and goes down hard.

Same punishments for hurting society with meth (selling to kids etc), but if it's for personal use, you are old enough, at home and you stay there, it's legal... I reckon that would be better than what we have...
 

Far Away Fan

Guest
In a lot of so called "Third World" countries, where western political policy has not taken root, the use of psychotropic substances, is still relatively wide spread, especially where it has religious or cultural connotation, for example, hashish in India / Asia, ayahusca (a form of Dimethyltryptamine or DMT) in parts of South America, iboga in parts of Africa etc, it has even been theorised, although not conclusively proven, that the genesis of Christianity may have even evolved through the use of psilocybin mushrooms, better known as magic mushrooms, the common thread throughout all these instances is a recognition of the benefits that come through an expansion of consciousness through the use of psychotropic substances


Er.....hmmmmm.....

You can't compare drug taking in societies where the culture is totally different to western culture to drug taking in western nations. Many other cultures have the built-in ability to appreciate and understand the varying psychotic effects, whereas in the west it's just a high.

Most on here will likely dismiss my next point, but it's true anyway: mind-altering substances open up holes in the aura and the effects of this can be very detrimental, allowing in other entities, which can latch on all too easily. This can and does happen anyway, but if you take drugs you might just as well hold the door open while saying "come on in and mess with my mind".

I've lived for a long time in an area where a lot of drugs are taken. They are not the wonder substances that you make out, they ruin peoples' lives. Often. In and around Byron Bay many see smoking dope as being just fine. Try telling that to my friend back there, whose 30yo son is still unable to get over the mess his mind fell into when he smoked it consistently as a teenager. And many others...

Illegal drugs are better then alcohol? That may be, in some cases, but neither illegal drugs nor alcohol are the answer to anything.
 

Far Away Fan

Guest
On a personal level for him and also for any fans he has, I think that Bird getting pulled up is one of the best things that could have happened.

We all know what he's like, but for the hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions out there who still thought that he's the man, well, now they're being shown that if you act like an animal in your life, things go wrong. Big time.
 
On a personal level for him and also for any fans he has, I think that Bird getting pulled up is one of the best things that could have happened.

We all know what he's like, but for the hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions out there who still thought that he's the man, well, now they're being shown that if you act like an animal in your life, things go wrong. Big time.
Hang on! Back the truck up!

I have it on good authority from a couple of posters on here that drugs have no negative effects. How could getting caught out for using and/or supplying drugs cause any ill effects to Greg Bird's life?

I'm confused.
 


Dr Carl Hart is an associate professor of psychology and psychiatry at Columbia University. He is known for his research in drug abuse and drug addiction. Dr Hart was the first tenured African American professor of sciences at Columbia University

For anyone with an open mind interested in some REAL research into the myths surrounding "hard drugs" check this guy out on the powerful Joe Rogan Experience or check out Dr Harts website @ https://www.drcarlhart.com/

Just to respond to a few of these comments, yeah some of these responses are, sadly, fairly predictable, but each to their own i suppose, you can lead a sheep to water, but you cant make it drink

As far as methamphetamine's & opiates go, I would never even try to deny that if you abuse that stuff, it will most likely mess your system up, or worse possibly kill you, addiction in most cases is caused by uneducated users who take a drug to simply get high, for whatever reason & the addiction comes when you experience a high level of intense pleasure or well being from that drug & you then fall into the trap of trying to relive that experience, again & again on a more frequent basis, but the more you use, the higher your bodies level of tolerance becomes to this drug & the more you need to use to even get close to reliving that initial great experience & the next thing you know your using so much that BOOM your a junkie, this is addiction in a nutshell

But that still does not eradicate the benefits that these so called "hard drugs" can have on the human biological system, heroine is an opiate derived from the opium poppy, which has been used by humankind for hundreds, if not thousands of years, it has a variety of effects, some good, some bad, but the most common is its effectiveness to greatly subdue physical pain in the human body & today in its purest form it is medically known as Morphine, which is used in every western hospital on earth to help alleviate severe pain in patients, Methamphetamine while seemingly the new "demon drug" has actually been around since 1887, now while this drug is definitely not to be trifled with, I do feel, as do others, that it has been overly demonized by the western media to the point where it's medicinal properties have been completely ignored, P as medicine ??? yes P as medicine, you see there is a difference between using a drug for medicinal purposes & simply using it as a recreational party drug, now i would agree that if you use P regularly as a recreational drug, then you will most likely fry your brain, rot your teeth & develop unsightly sores all over your body, but if you were to take someone who was suffering from a chronic bout of severe depression & also the overwhelming feeling of lethargy that comes with it & give them a controlled dosage of methamphetamine under relatively controlled conditions, then I can almost guarantee you that same person will get out of bed or off the couch & more than likely do something active like tidy their house for example, give that same person a small dosage of cannabis & they will probably be able to reevaluate what is making them depressed with much more clarity, be more inclined to eat more & get a vastly improved nights sleep

This is the difference between medicinal use of "illicit substances" & recreational use of "illicit substances", oh & the reason I quote "illicit substances" has nothing to do with not wanting to use the word DRUGS, which I am perfectly comfortable with, it is because this is the official phrase our government & our police use whenever they pretend to debate this issue, why ? well I am not exactly sure, but if I was to make an educated guess it most likely because they don't want the masses confusing the vastly more effective illegal drugs, with the vastly more ineffective legal drugs that we refer to as prescription medication, its not drugs that are the problem, it is the bulk of societies almost blind obedience to our so called authorities bullshit that is the problem

You see what we are not told anywhere near as much as "drugs are bad" is that there are lots of perfectly legal substances that if abused or used to excess can also mess up our fragile human biology, that is a FACT, drink too much coffee or consume too much sugar & this will have a detrimental effect on a host of both your physical and or mental faculties, the effect of alcohol & tobacco, which are perfectly legal, have far worse ramifications on the human biological system, FACT, Disprin is perfectly legal, but take too many of those puppies & that'll be the last headache you eve have, why ? because you'll be dead that's why, it is also a FACT that the SSRI's or SSMRI's (better known as anti depressants) that are constantly being pushed on us by the medical & pharmaceutical industries can actually cause side effects far more debilitating than the actual disease they are suppose to treat, at worst, in some severe cases, anti depressants have been known to have such a devastating effect on the brains neurochemistry that it can cause severe forms of psychosis, in FACT six out of ten mass shootings that are perpetrated in the United States have been carried out by people either on anti depressants, or coming off & withdrawing from them, yet not only are they perfectly legal, but they are actively pushed on us by our own doctors, another FACT is around 60% of New Zealander's are currently on some form or another of anti depressant "medication" ... do you fall into this category Nig ? .. if so I really hope you don't own any guns bro ;)

In all seriousness though, I can understand why some people, who have seen relatives and or friends fall prey to addiction, have a heavily emotional response to this issue, even if I find some points utterly illogical, for example, calling an illegal drug inherently "bad" or worse yet "evil" just does not make any logical sense to me, because most of these drugs are either a humanly manufactured chemical compound, or a naturally occurring organism (ie: plants or fungi) that as far as I know, are largely devoid of any form of advanced consciousness, which you would need to deliver a premeditated act of inherent evil, in FACT there is only one organism on this entire planet that has an advanced enough consciousness to carry out a premeditated act of inherent evil ... human beings

Now this brings me to a point in my last post that i would like to elaborate on further, under New Zealand's current archaic prohibition drug laws, the drug trade has been driven firmly underground & is currently under the the total control of "outlaw" organisations, better as "gangs", now these organisations operate under no regulations or restrictions whatsoever, which means they are free to sell their drugs to anyone they so desire, from kids to junkies, in FACT a lot these organisations actively pursue children to purchase their drugs because kids who are uneducated to the dangers of over indulging in these substances are easily turned into junkies & in these unscrupulous gangs they have a saying "once your a junkie your money in the bank ", that to me is an inherent act of evil, but i would hold the organisations practicing this method responsible & not the drug itself

But conversely, if you have a drug market that is fully legalized, heavily taxed & controlled under heavy regulations & restrictions, then we as a society can take control of the delivery method of these drugs & decide what to do with all the extra tax revenue it would generate in whatever way we see fit, for example, I would like to see community driven drug dispensaries, that are restricted to adults 25 years old & over, as the human brain is still developing up until about this age (also nowhere in my last post did i advocate children using any form of drug be it legal or illegal & to insinuate that i did is not only an imbecilic argument, but quite frankly very childish, pun intended) I would also like to see the extra tax that this generates fund drug education in schools, rehabilitation centers for those who fall into addiction through abuse & I would also set heavy compliance standards, such as a form of license that you have to apply for & an active national data base, to keep track of anybody who is trying to cheat the system & is falling into a possible pattern of addiction through abuse, any left over tax can then be pumped back into our communities in whatever way we deem fit ie: infrastructure, community groups such as sports clubs, schools, parks, sports grounds etc, much like we used to do with the now defunct regional liquor boards

Now is this not an improvement on the current "lets collectively bury our heads in the sand" approach, declare WAR on a whole section of our population & turn them into criminals, while all the while leaving this multi million dollar if not billion dollar industry under the unregulated, unrestricted control of the so called "gangs" ? ... call me a crazed "hippie" spouting "anarchic drivel" if you like, but I believe anyone who is not totally close minded would be able to see the VAST improvement that the aforementioned method would offer in comparison to our current archaic, draconian laws that were first set in motion in the bloody 1930's, just to elaborate on my point, that's 85 years ago, 15 years short of a century, the time to step into the modern age on this issue & stop living in the past is well overdue imo, some may say "well that's the law deal with it", but I would reply by saying that it was not that long ago that being gay was considered a defect & gay sex & marriage was outlawed, but thankfully we managed to pull our heads out of our asses on that one & we are a much better society because of it, when a law is so outdated that it actively hinders society instead of serving society, then that law has become an ass that deserves to be kicked

If this change in policy had by now already been implemented , then I firmly believe we would not be seeing this type of "drug baron" scandal we are currently witnessing in our beloved game, why ? because take away prohibition & regulate the market & the level of profit decreases exponentially, this is as true for a "legitimate" market as it is for any underground "black" market
I personally cannot chastise these guys for giving it a crack because I view it like this, your a young man, be it a sportsman or whatever, with a spare 50k in your bank account, your looking at that 50k going "hmm how can I make this money work for me", you could invest in property, a more or less unregulated, relatively low risk but relatively guaranteed of low reward venture, you could invest in the stock market, an unregulated, high risk, no guarantee of high reward venture or you could invest in the black market drug trade, a totally unregulated, very high risk, but almost guaranteed high reward venture ... hmmmm choices choices ???

Temptation is a powerful beast & even the best of us fall victim to its jaws from time to time, so to conclude I would just like to quote a lyric from one of my all time favourite bands, which funnily enough they ripped off from the good book ... just to clarify I'm not religious in the conventional sense, but that's just me, all power to you if you are

JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED YOURSELF .... Metallica :D
 
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On a personal level for him and also for any fans he has, I think that Bird getting pulled up is one of the best things that could have happened.

We all know what he's like, but for the hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions out there who still thought that he's the man, well, now they're being shown that if you act like an animal in your life, things go wrong. Big time.

so your friends sons problems are purely down to drugs but Birds drug problems are karma ?
 
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gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
I would have to argue against you on this one. Do the laws stop everyone from consuming it? No. Does it stop some people from consuming it? yes.

Why does it have to be illegal or educate as the only choice. In my mind illegal and educate is better. Best.

First i am very sorry that this tragedy happened to you and your family.
if making something illegal actually stopped people i would agree. But the reality of today is that Heroin is illegal, and people are still taking it. If i sold heart medicine and people kept dying, then people would demand i change the medicine. This is as i see it the heart of the issue, you cant keep doing the same shit and expect a different result. Change is needed.

nother FACT is around 60% of New Zealander's are currently on some form or another of anti depressant "medication"

Where did you get this figure from? It sounds way to high. From a NZ herald article the figure is about 10% from oct 2012 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10839802 i really cant see it going to 60% in just 3 years.
 
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Er.....hmmmmm.....

You can't compare drug taking in societies where the culture is totally different to western culture to drug taking in western nations. Many other cultures have the built-in ability to appreciate and understand the varying psychotic effects, whereas in the west it's just a high.

Most on here will likely dismiss my next point, but it's true anyway: mind-altering substances open up holes in the aura and the effects of this can be very detrimental, allowing in other entities, which can latch on all too easily. This can and does happen anyway, but if you take drugs you might just as well hold the door open while saying "come on in and mess with my mind".

I've lived for a long time in an area where a lot of drugs are taken. They are not the wonder substances that you make out, they ruin peoples' lives. Often. In and around Byron Bay many see smoking dope as being just fine. Try telling that to my friend back there, whose 30yo son is still unable to get over the mess his mind fell into when he smoked it consistently as a teenager. And many others...

Illegal drugs are better then alcohol? That may be, in some cases, but neither illegal drugs nor alcohol are the answer to anything.

Just to reply to a few comments

Firstly Far Away Fan ... I actually fully agree with you that the misuse of psychotropic substances can lead to some of the "psychic splits" you are describing, but from my perspective this is mainly due to misuse of these substances through the lack of education or understanding of the proper way these substances should be used, I am not an advocate for rampant recreational drug use, but I am an advocate of lawful medicinal drug use because to me that's what these substances really are & to deny any human being they're most effective form of medication because of an ill informed preconceived biased point of view is nothing short of inhumane

As for your friends son, well if he is suffering detrimental effects from cannabis abuse as a teenager then i can't say I'm particularly surprised, because it's relatively well known that the human brain is not fully developed until about the age of 25 & that is why I would not generally recommend the use of any psychotropic substance, legal or illegal, to anyone under that age, however it is a tricky situation because plenty of children in NZ & Aus are prescribed psychotropic medication with the full consent of their parents by local GP's, such as Ritilan for example, I myself would not do that to my kids no matter what, but then there is this story https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...sing-cannabis-treat-sons-severe-seizures.html among others that have to be taken into serious consideration, these substances are not for everyone, but there is no denying that for some people, even children, they have hugely beneficial effects

Where did you get this figure from? It sounds way to high. From a NZ herald article the figure is about 10% from oct 2012 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10839802 i really cant see it going to 60% in just 3 years.

Secondly Grevus ... the 60% figure i mentioned comes from a few different sources, but the most reliable one comes from a longtime dear friend of mine who works in the NZ Mental Health system, she told me quite some time ago that she was shocked by the actual numbers of kiwis who are prescribed anti depressants, what they do not tell you in mainstream media, like the NZ Herald, is the vast number of kiwis who are using prescribed anti depressants who are not even aware that they are actually using anti depressants, people are unknowingly prescribed anti depressants for a whole range of ailments that have nothing to do with actual mental illness, sexual dysfunction, sleep disorders, eating disorders etc, to a critical thinker such as myself anti depressants seem to have become the medical & pharmaceutical industries one stop shop for all your ills, one such example i can detai is a "medication" called Zyban, which is medically known as bupropion hydrochloride ( pretty name yeah ? ... not lol) which is prescribed under the guise of a nicotine cessation medication, but is actually a psychotropic, anti psychotic, anti depressant "medication" also used, among other things, to treat acute chronic schizophrenia, one of the side effects of this "medication" is actually a physiological rejection of nicotine, but one of the many other side effects, just to name one, is also suicidal thoughts that can lead to actual suicide ??? with just that side effect alone, why would a doctor prescribe that "medication" to anyone, much less somebody who is already suffering from mental illness ??? ... food fro thought

Anyway as I stated in one of my previous posts, this whole issue is one that is near & dear to my heart & I have been researching it extensively for years & I put fourth this information any chance i get, which is why when I saw this thread I decided put these rather long winded, slightly off topic posts on what is predominantly a NZ Warriors Rugby League Fan Forum

Unfortunately in my experience, it is fairly common to be met with blatant vitriol & dismissed as nothing more than some brain addled hippie spouting stoner psychobabble lol, but this does not deter me as I came to realise long ago that people mostly always fear what they do not understand & I have also come to realise that a substantial portion of New Zealanders are actually very closed minded & so rigid in their ill informed belief systems on this issue that they cannot see the wood for the tree's, as evidenced here by some of the replies my posts have generated (not pointing the finger ... jus sayin)

So all I can really do is remain vigilant to taking any opportunity I can find to pump out this rather overwhelming information, that is slowly but surely turning into irrefutable evidence, in the hope that a light will finely switch on for these people & they will wake up to the realisation that not all that glitters is gold & we can try & make this great country of ours even better ... here's hoping :D
 
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Your source is a friend in the NZ Mental Health. Beats Bob from down the road or Wikipedia but only just. Pretty sure if 60% were on antidepressents then there would be some good data to back that up . 20% of all people know that. Other than your "friends" good word that is. Unless they loosely count having a beer in that list. Its up there with a billion watching the superbowl. But whats better than exaggerating? Nothing. Ahh who cares. Drugs boooo Warriors yaah. Big season. Feeling confident. So far we know the Titans will be below us.
 


Dr Carl Hart is an associate professor of psychology and psychiatry at Columbia University. He is known for his research in drug abuse and drug addiction. Dr Hart was the first tenured African American professor of sciences at Columbia University

For anyone with an open mind interested in some REAL research into the myths surrounding "hard drugs" check this guy out on the powerful Joe Rogan Experience or check out Dr Harts website @ https://www.drcarlhart.com/

Just to respond to a few of these comments, yeah some of these responses are, sadly, fairly predictable, but each to their own i suppose, you can lead a sheep to water, but you cant make it drink

As far as methamphetamine's & opiates go, I would never even try to deny that if you abuse that stuff, it will most likely mess your system up, or worse possibly kill you, addiction in most cases is caused by uneducated users who take a drug to simply get high, for whatever reason & the addiction comes when you experience a high level of intense pleasure or well being from that drug & you then fall into the trap of trying to relive that experience, again & again on a more frequent basis, but the more you use, the higher your bodies level of tolerance becomes to this drug & the more you need to use to even get close to reliving that initial great experience & the next thing you know your using so much that BOOM your a junkie, this is addiction in a nutshell

But that still does not eradicate the benefits that these so called "hard drugs" can have on the human biological system, heroine is an opiate derived from the opium poppy, which has been used by humankind for hundreds, if not thousands of years, it has a variety of effects, some good, some bad, but the most common is its effectiveness to greatly subdue physical pain in the human body & today in its purest form it is medically known as Morphine, which is used in every western hospital on earth to help alleviate severe pain in patients, Methamphetamine while seemingly the new "demon drug" has actually been around since 1887, now while this drug is definitely not to be trifled with, I do feel, as do others, that it has been overly demonized by the western media to the point where it's medicinal properties have been completely ignored, P as medicine ??? yes P as medicine, you see there is a difference between using a drug for medicinal purposes & simply using it as a recreational party drug, now i would agree that if you use P regularly as a recreational drug, then you will most likely fry your brain, rot your teeth & develop unsightly sores all over your body, but if you were to take someone who was suffering from a chronic bout of severe depression & also the overwhelming feeling of lethargy that comes with it & give them a controlled dosage of methamphetamine under relatively controlled conditions, then I can almost guarantee you that same person will get out of bed or off the couch & more than likely do something active like tidy their house for example, give that same person a small dosage of cannabis & they will probably be able to reevaluate what is making them depressed with much more clarity, be more inclined to eat more & get a vastly improved nights sleep

This is the difference between medicinal use of "illicit substances" & recreational use of "illicit substances", oh & the reason I quote "illicit substances" has nothing to do with not wanting to use the word DRUGS, which I am perfectly comfortable with, it is because this is the official phrase our government & our police use whenever they pretend to debate this issue, why ? well I am not exactly sure, but if I was to make an educated guess it most likely because they don't want the masses confusing the vastly more effective illegal drugs, with the vastly more ineffective legal drugs that we refer to as prescription medication, its not drugs that are the problem, it is the bulk of societies almost blind obedience to our so called authorities bullshit that is the problem

You see what we are not told anywhere near as much as "drugs are bad" is that there are lots of perfectly legal substances that if abused or used to excess can also mess up our fragile human biology, that is a FACT, drink too much coffee or consume too much sugar & this will have a detrimental effect on a host of both your physical and or mental faculties, the effect of alcohol & tobacco, which are perfectly legal, have far worse ramifications on the human biological system, FACT, Disprin is perfectly legal, but take too many of those puppies & that'll be the last headache you eve have, why ? because you'll be dead that's why, it is also a FACT that the SSRI's or SSMRI's (better known as anti depressants) that are constantly being pushed on us by the medical & pharmaceutical industries can actually cause side effects far more debilitating than the actual disease they are suppose to treat, at worst, in some severe cases, anti depressants have been known to have such a devastating effect on the brains neurochemistry that it can cause severe forms of psychosis, in FACT six out of ten mass shootings that are perpetrated in the United States have been carried out by people either on anti depressants, or coming off & withdrawing from them, yet not only are they perfectly legal, but they are actively pushed on us by our own doctors, another FACT is around 60% of New Zealander's are currently on some form or another of anti depressant "medication" ... do you fall into this category Nig ? .. if so I really hope you don't own any guns bro ;)

In all seriousness though, I can understand why some people, who have seen relatives and or friends fall prey to addiction, have a heavily emotional response to this issue, even if I find some points utterly illogical, for example, calling an illegal drug inherently "bad" or worse yet "evil" just does not make any logical sense to me, because most of these drugs are either a humanly manufactured chemical compound, or a naturally occurring organism (ie: plants or fungi) that as far as I know, are largely devoid of any form of advanced consciousness, which you would need to deliver a premeditated act of inherent evil, in FACT there is only one organism on this entire planet that has an advanced enough consciousness to carry out a premeditated act of inherent evil ... human beings

Now this brings me to a point in my last post that i would like to elaborate on further, under New Zealand's current archaic prohibition drug laws, the drug trade has been driven firmly underground & is currently under the the total control of "outlaw" organisations, better as "gangs", now these organisations operate under no regulations or restrictions whatsoever, which means they are free to sell their drugs to anyone they so desire, from kids to junkies, in FACT a lot these organisations actively pursue children to purchase their drugs because kids who are uneducated to the dangers of over indulging in these substances are easily turned into junkies & in these unscrupulous gangs they have a saying "once your a junkie your money in the bank ", that to me is an inherent act of evil, but i would hold the organisations practicing this method responsible & not the drug itself

But conversely, if you have a drug market that is fully legalized, heavily taxed & controlled under heavy regulations & restrictions, then we as a society can take control of the delivery method of these drugs & decide what to do with all the extra tax revenue it would generate in whatever way we see fit, for example, I would like to see community driven drug dispensaries, that are restricted to adults 25 years old & over, as the human brain is still developing up until about this age (also nowhere in my last post did i advocate children using any form of drug be it legal or illegal & to insinuate that i did is not only an imbecilic argument, but quite frankly very childish, pun intended) I would also like to see the extra tax that this generates fund drug education in schools, rehabilitation centers for those who fall into addiction through abuse & I would also set heavy compliance standards, such as a form of license that you have to apply for & an active national data base, to keep track of anybody who is trying to cheat the system & is falling into a possible pattern of addiction through abuse, any left over tax can then be pumped back into our communities in whatever way we deem fit ie: infrastructure, community groups such as sports clubs, schools, parks, sports grounds etc, much like we used to do with the now defunct regional liquor boards

Now is this not an improvement on the current "lets collectively bury our heads in the sand" approach, declare WAR on a whole section of our population & turn them into criminals, while all the while leaving this multi million dollar if not billion dollar industry under the unregulated, unrestricted control of the so called "gangs" ? ... call me a crazed "hippie" spouting "anarchic drivel" if you like, but I believe anyone who is not totally close minded would be able to see the VAST improvement that the aforementioned method would offer in comparison to our current archaic, draconian laws that were first set in motion in the bloody 1930's, just to elaborate on my point, that's 85 years ago, 15 years short of a century, the time to step into the modern age on this issue & stop living in the past is well overdue imo, some may say "well that's the law deal with it", but I would reply by saying that it was not that long ago that being gay was considered a defect & gay sex & marriage was outlawed, but thankfully we managed to pull our heads out of our asses on that one & we are a much better society because of it, when a law is so outdated that it actively hinders society instead of serving society, then that law has become an ass that deserves to be kicked

If this change in policy had by now already been implemented , then I firmly believe we would not be seeing this type of "drug baron" scandal we are currently witnessing in our beloved game, why ? because take away prohibition & regulate the market & the level of profit decreases exponentially, this is as true for a "legitimate" market as it is for any underground "black" market
I personally cannot chastise these guys for giving it a crack because I view it like this, your a young man, be it a sportsman or whatever, with a spare 50k in your bank account, your looking at that 50k going "hmm how can I make this money work for me", you could invest in property, a more or less unregulated, relatively low risk but relatively guaranteed of low reward venture, you could invest in the stock market, an unregulated, high risk, no guarantee of high reward venture or you could invest in the black market drug trade, a totally unregulated, very high risk, but almost guaranteed high reward venture ... hmmmm choices choices ???

Temptation is a powerful beast & even the best of us fall victim to its jaws from time to time, so to conclude I would just like to quote a lyric from one of my all time favourite bands, which funnily enough they ripped off from the good book ... just to clarify I'm not religious in the conventional sense, but that's just me, all power to you if you are

JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED YOURSELF .... Metallica :D

No, you can relax. No anti-depressants here. Bit of a shame though, because now I know all I need is a go P hit to lift me out of the darkness, if I were there.

I never said you talked about supplying drugs to kids. I said that the legal and regulated legal high shops blattantly ignore the rules and sell to kids now, so will continue with harder drugs if they were legal.

I hope to god I never live in a world led by people like you who would educate our kids that its perfectly OK to try P as long as you are doing it for the right reasons.

If kids can't get their highs of the shelf, like the rest of society are, then they will venture into experimentation with homemade drugs, or use the black market to source their drugs. If the gangs are willing to sell to kids now, why wouldn't they continue when kids still aren't able to get them? Of course if the only market is children, then costs will need to go down to make a profit. Which would require cheap concoctions instead of the more expensive ingredients used now.
 
Where did you get this figure from? It sounds way to high. From a NZ herald article the figure is about 10% from oct 2012 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10839802 i really cant see it going to 60% in just 3 years.

Just thinking about my immediate circle of friends and wives etc (only going to use adults for the purposes of this example) - out of 9 people (including myself) that I know well enough to know if they are or aren't on antidepressants, 3 of them are, and a 4th has been in the past (following a close family member's death).

Hardly statistical - given it's a sample of 9 people. But probably indicates 60% is way too high. 10%-20% is probably realistic (especially given they say 1 in 5 NZers suffer from mental illness).

The real elephant in the room here isn't how many people are on antidepressants, but how many aren't on them for a variety of reasons (cost, undiagnosed, try to coping through it or being tough etc).
 
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Inruin

Contributor
Making meth illegal will never stop fuckups demanding it. Because there will always be a dealer hanging around telling everyone how great it is and that their money is well spent. Why is this reality so hard for people to accept? How big are all your rocks that you're all living under?

And I've personally never met a person who said they wouldn't do drugs because they are illegal.

The reasons I hear are because they would interfere with them getting a job (which can still be illegal under controlled legalization) or that they didn't want to be a loser, which has nothing to do with the law (as many see themselves as winning because they are breaking the law)...

Legalize it just enough to destroy the black market and give losers their basic human rights (specifically the right to be a loser as long as they don't hurt anyone else) back and the problem will be minimized to the maximum possible extent...

No more wealthy, dangerous criminal underworld, no more easy access for school kids; just the odd guy here and there who gets busted for breaking the law and goes down hard.

Same punishments for hurting society with meth (selling to kids etc), but if it's for personal use, you are old enough, at home and you stay there, it's legal... I reckon that would be better than what we have...
I didnt say it stops everyone from using it. You are right it wont stop fuckups demanding it and it doesn't. So, we should then lower ourselves to the lowest denominator? Because a fuckup demands it we all should?

What i did say is that it being illegal does stop people using it. If it's legal, distribution increases, making it more available, more people use it. basic sales principle. If it is not freely available, then by default it stops some people from using it.

How do you legalise it just enough to destroy the black market? For arguments sake, lets assume it is legal, its available in every dairy or wholesalers. What is the cost of manufacture, teh markup required to make a profit from production right throug to distribution to sales, how much tax goes on it (to cover associated health issues tahta rise as well as the compliance control of selling, manufacture etc), what are the insurance premiums going to increase by for these establishments (still creates addicts who want there fix and will do anything to get it) etc. will that eliminate a black market?

Your argument is that no substance in the world should be illegal to buy, whether natural or synthetic?

Why does it just have to be used in the home and if you use it there you stay there? Why isnt it freely available in all pubs, clubs and bars? In your local cafe?

We couldn't control a fairly simple thing like synthetic cannabis and you are calling for all drugs to be legalised?
 
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