Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,605
It’s not just those big players, Yellowstone is a good show on at the moment that shows the power of the big ranches in the states. Though just a tv show, I could imagine a reality with how they continue to think they’re cowboys. A vote for an independent candidate is pretty much a wasted vote, a continuing problem regarding politics around the world seems to be tribalism.

At its essence Politics is a few trying to get the many to follow them and accept their viewpoint. Democracy tries to gain that following by voting. Autocracies do it by force. What is it when the viewpoints are essentially the same and the parties are controlled by vested interest, it doesn't seem like democracy to me when 3rd parties are excluded.
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
16,061
With what I witnessed on January 6, I hate to say, but my money is on trump
The GOP is a minority of voters although the MAGA crowd are about 60 % of that. Makes about 25% of voters...great odds...they just make a lot of noise.
 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
2,907
Tauranga
I can imagine there are others whose interests would be served by that system being overthrown. As the capital hill siege and many revolutionary protests around the world have shown, there isn’t really an answer to the power of numbers.
Will the Capital Hill protests be looked back on with the fullness of time as revolutionary, that shaped America into a better place?

Will it be looked back on as a stain of democracy?

Theres a fine line between pleasure and pain...
 
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JP_576

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 4, 2020
271
Never underestimate the Democrats ability to shoot themselves in the foot, in fact they aim. They are beholden to the same corporate interests as the republicans. Anywhere else in the world Biden would be regarded as a right winger.

Just as the republicans are in a civil war within the party, so are the democrats with the corporate democrats (Biden, Clinton) against the progressives coming through (AOC, Gabbard). It is all about change, the progressives want it, the corporates don't.

Follow the money, corporate interests back Biden and McConnell. Even if Trump starts his own party he will not get a platform with msm, because of those corporate interests. It would be the same if it was Sanders, or anyone outside the inside elites who are welded on to the two party system..
I don't think Joe Biden is a right winger as much as he is a politician. He voted for the crime bill because it was the political climate at the time.
Crime rates were massive at the time and it wasn't actually controversial at the time.
Biden has actually come out and said he made a mistake.
Also Bernie has taken money from lobbyists as well just in a much smaller capacity than others.
No matter how great your policies are most politicians won't turn down free money and actually need it to compete in America. Just the way the system is set up. Only real change over there will be gradually.
A progressive candidate will never win on the national stage in the near future. Got to slowly start bring the country back towards the centre before they even have a chance. Doing the "both sides are the same" argument actually hurts the progressives in the long run as it lets far right wingers like Trump win (he only won because a lot of dems sat out cause they didn't like Clinton). That has in turn pushed the Republican party further right and made it so the dems have to go further right from the centre to appease the moderate voters in the middle. Also the biggest thing is the appointment of supreme Court judges Which are lifetime appointments.

At least with the dems in power and Republicans hopefully losing if they stick with their far right position as they are currently doing, they go back to the drawing board and realise what they actually stood for and come back towards the centre.
 

Miket12

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 20, 2012
8,864

US producer claims Ghislaine Maxwell admitted Jeffrey Epstein had tapes of friends​


A new book has revealed Ghislaine Maxwell may have admitted Jeffrey Epstein was taping his famous friends including two past US presidents Donald Trump and Bill Clinton while having sex.

During a meeting back in 2016 with ex CBS producer Ira Rosen, Maxwell said she didn't "know where" such recordings were after Rosen asked her to hand over recordings of Trump.

The Daily Mail have reported the meeting between the pair was held ahead of the 2016 US presidential election which saw Trump become the 45th US president.

It is believed Maxwell supported Hillary Clinton and she refused to help.

"If you get the tapes on Trump you have to do [Bill] Clinton," Maxwell said.

The interaction between the pair is mentioned in Rosen's new book Ticking Clock: Behind the Scenes at 60 Minutes.

The book looks into reported claims that Epstein recorded his famous friends having sex with women without their knowledge.

At times these women were underage and it's thought the recorded footage was used for blackmail.

Maria Farmer and Virginia Roberts Giuffre, two of Epstein's victims, have mentioned they recall seeing a room full of CCTV monitors at his New York mansion.

Maxwell is accused of procuring underage girls for Epstein.

Rosen reveals in the book he met with Maxwell in the early months of 2016 acting on a "hunch" that the tapes existed, it's said he tricked her into confirming they did exist.

"I want the tapes. I know he [Epstein] was videotaping everyone and I want the tapes of Trump with the girls," Rosen told Maxwell.

Maxwell replied: "I don't know where they are."

Rosen says he asked Maxwell to speak with Epstein mentioning the "fate of the country is at stake".

"Trump could be elected president and how would you feel if those tapes emerged after he was in office?" Rosen asked Maxwell.

"She gave me a stern look and pointed a finger in my face. She said: 'I am the daughter of a press baron. I know the way you people think. If you do one side, you must do the other. If you get the tapes on Trump you have to do Clinton'."

Rosen replied: "I will. I will go wherever the story goes."

However, Maxwell claims she was never told where the tapes were.

"Maxwell didn't want Trump elected, but said that Hillary Clinton was comfortably ahead and there was no need for the story to come out.

"Besides, she said, Epstein never shared with her the location of the tapes."

At the end of their meeting Rosen says he hailed Maxwell a taxi when she asked if he would follow her back to her house.

"Get me the tapes and I will go back to your place," he said, but Maxwell gave him a kiss on the cheek and left.

In the book Rosen says he thinks men in Palm Beach invested with Epstein "after being extorted with pictures from nights of debauchery".

He also mentions he bumped into Maxwell at a book party in New York in 2014 where she approached him asking for a ride home.

"Once there she turned to me in the front seat with an offer. 'If you come in and f*** me I will tell you the secrets of my father'," Maxwell said, Rosen writes.

Robert Maxwell was a British newspaper tycoon who died under mysterious circumstances on his yacht in the Canary Islands in 1991.

"I was stunned and speechless, my mind racing. I was not about to sleep with her but the reporter in me still wondered if her information would make a good 60 Minutes piece," he added.

"What a great offer but I left my dog home alone and I really need to get back to her," Maxwell told Rosen.

"It was a lame excuse and she knew it - she smiled weakly and said goodnight."

 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
18,095
Will the Capital Hill protests be looked back on with the fullness of time as revolutionary, that shaped America into a better place?

Will it be looked back on as a stain of democracy?

Theres a fine line between pleasure and pain...
Joe Biden is the president of the United States.

The traitors lost.

There is no revolutionary story in reality, the election is over. Biden is going nowhere and these people are facing criminal charges.

History is written.

The story has ended.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
16,061
Joe Biden is the president of the United States.

The traitors lost.

There is no revolutionary story in reality, the election is over. Biden is going nowhere and these people are facing criminal charges.

History is written.

The story has ended.
The story has not ended...I fear.

If Trump can carry through with his threat to primary any Republican he doesn't like he will take control of and cause a major split in the party.

The SCOTUS is even in the frame for sitting on an application by the SDNY to have his tax records produced. If this continues the case will go beyond the Statute of Limitations of five years.

It is unbelievable how such a guy can have gained so much control over the country.

Common sense says that when he runs out of money he will fade away, but that looks like being a tough fight.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
18,095
The story has not ended...I fear.

If Trump can carry through with his threat to primary any Republican he doesn't like he will take control of and cause a major split in the party.

The SCOTUS is even in the frame for sitting on an application by the SDNY to have his tax records produced. If this continues the case will go beyond the Statute of Limitations of five years.

It is unbelievable how such a guy can have gained so much control over the country.

Common sense says that when he runs out of money he will fade away, but that looks like being a tough fight.

Sure there are more volumes to be written.

But the story of overthrowing the election by force is over.

Those people are not patriots, they are not protesters, they are not revolutionaries...they are traitors and White supremacist terrorists.

History will judge them for the scum that they are.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
16,061
Those people are not patriots, they are not protesters, they are not revolutionaries...they are traitors and White supremacist terrorists.
I worry not only about the right wing loonies, but the god botherers. Trump has been very cunning to suck them in.
 

JP_576

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 4, 2020
271
I worry not only about the right wing loonies, but the god botherers. Trump has been very cunning to suck them in.
Has Trump actually done anything to suck them in or have they themselves used that as an excuse to shield themselves from the fact they are supporting a racist pos.

Also to the few Trump sympathisers in here that were using the fact he's against immigration (which is a bad thing in your own words and liberals are all for open borders) in your support of Trump, Biden has deported over 40000 people. He just doesn't gaslight like Trump by closing the border to Muslim countries etc.
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,605
Timothy McVeigh, who carried out the Oklahoma bombing that killed 168 people was a decorated veteran who wrote that the government was the teacher, whether for good or evil.

After Oklahoma the numbers of militia groups (other countries call them paramilitaries)'went from about 200 to over 800. You have to ask what happened after 6/1, 0r 1/6 they call it. Another factor is the radicalisation of portions of police and military during the Trump presidency.

Trump radicals, the intelligent ones, know they do not have the numbers to change things democratically, their own government has taught them that violence works.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
16,061
Has Trump actually done anything to suck them in or have they themselves used that as an excuse to shield themselves from the fact they are supporting a racist pos.
In my memory, going back almost 40 years, the born again Christians, and then even all Christians got attracted to right wing philosophy.

My first experience of that was on climate change, even my dear old mum who was just an ordinary Catholic didn't believe in climate change.

I cannot understand why, maybe it is because the right wing need an alternative narrative (woke for bullshit), and therefore to develop a cult mentality.

So if you are a criminal corporate or a right wing politician just play to the religious cults, who are just born for bullshit theories.

I remember being in a provincial town where a highly respected local head mistress was standing for Labour against a prominent National right wing politician.

Now I knew this politician, and he was no more of a god botherer than I was, but when he realized how many votes he could get by sucking up to the Christians he was on to it like a rat up a drainpipe.

He used to go to churches and preach how evil this woman was. Now you all know I am not a fan of Labour, but this woman was a very honest and highly principled person.

Sure she held different opinions to me, but that didn't make her evil.

It did piss me off a bit.

So I know I digress, but I think even Obama was getting highly frustrated with the god botherers.
 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
2,907
Tauranga
In my memory, going back almost 40 years, the born again Christians, and then even all Christians got attracted to right wing philosophy.

My first experience of that was on climate change, even my dear old mum who was just an ordinary Catholic didn't believe in climate change.

I cannot understand why, maybe it is because the right wing need an alternative narrative (woke for bullshit), and therefore to develop a cult mentality.
Right wing is conservative - it doesn’t like change. It’s why older people, religious, rural, business, etc like the right. They prefer stability and fear the unknown.

Its how Trump succeeded -
- keep out immigrants (don’t change society)
- Make America great again (go back to the good old days)
- anti globalisation (Keep the US as the centre of the world)

I think it’s a lesson for all politics - change must happen but you can’t evolve faster than the people are ready or people will backlash behind a Trump.

Take for example green policy. 10-20 years ago it was extremist and unworkable. As science and society has evolved a lot of the ideas are now mainstream.
 

Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,605
Yes, just ask the Texans :rolleyes:

The Republicans and Fox news were banging on how the crisis was about the turbines freezing. Wind supplies less than 15% of Texas power. All the petro chemical plants closed down too. Why, because their energy was deregulated and no future proofing was done.

I saw one report where energy is so scarce now that before one megawatt, or something like that cost $400, it is now $9,000. I wouldn't want to be billed by that company.

This the neo-liberal idea of the market decides everything, it only works for the rich. Conservatism allows change, but not for it's own sake or for purposes of ideology. The republican party more resembles fascism where business and government are so intertwined it is difficult to distinguish where one ends and the other starts.
 

Worried2Death

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 6, 2016
2,457
This the neo-liberal idea of the market decides everything, it only works for the rich. Conservatism allows change, but not for it's own sake or for purposes of ideology. The republican party more resembles fascism where business and government are so intertwined it is difficult to distinguish where one ends and the other starts.
I'd say it starts with the business elite and they install hand puppets in governments to implement trickle up policies.
 

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