JP_576

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 4, 2020
158

In other news.
It should be noted the extremist are a small minority. There is not going to be a civil war unless the leadership is stupid. The way it escalates is if you keep pushing the people that are hurting. You don’t fix BLM by marginalising blacks. You don’t fix Trump by ostracising Trump supporters.

What heals division is cool heads and time. Impeachment and making examples of people creates martyrs. Ignore these guys. Impeaching Trump last time only made him stronger. Focus on the big picture rather and moving forward. Focus on the future and building a united America rather than continually focusing on the division. (Take note media).
I understand what you're saying but this division that already existed was directly fanned by trump. There's a reason why there was a record number of votes against him.
 

JP_576

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 4, 2020
158
More people died in the BLM protests. Again - do we solve that by ostracising them? There are serious problems that are driving the anger behind this - ignoring that by punishment will result in more dead...


Careful what you wish for - the more you go after a person with popular support the stronger they become... The consequences of his leadership should be to ignore him and make him irrelevant. That’s what will hurt him and heal the country the most.
Why do people keep correlating BLM with what happened at the capital. 1 was a group of people with genuine greivances and was directly inflamed by Trump and his extreme supporters by trying to downplay it. Remember Colin Kaepernick? I wonder what these rioters think about him now.
The other was a bunch of delusional people that thought they could storm the capitol and receive no consequences cause they had convinced themselves the election was stolen thanks to their cult leader .

As for your second point A lot of people the west has gone after have had popular support.
 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
2,770
Tauranga
I’ll play the game 😉. A more appropriate analogy is a workplace.

If i’m the leader of a unionised workplace and there is a group of workers that object to where the workplace is heading - extra hours for reducing pay; outsource key work; putting a few rich customers before the staff; etc. When they strike in frustration, do I take a stand and lock then out or be conciliatory - try to understand their point of view and move forward positively.

As it’s unionised the staff cannot be removed (similar to the voting public of the US). The best way forward is to be listen and meet in the middle or the disgruntled workplace culture will tear the company apart.

I appreciate your view and I guess I look at it as a wider genuine issues that have enabled Trump, whereas I think you see this as a one off reaction to Trump losing the election.
 
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Stone

1st Grade Fringe
May 19, 2012
1,213
Auckland
Here's what absolutely does my head in.

I watched most of the BLM protests online, either live or delayed.

I remember seeing cops, soldiers, the national guard, various heavily armed & armored vehicles including actual tanks.

I'm pretty sure I even remember seeing a fuck'n apache helicopter. (not 100% but pretty sure)

I remember hearing that these "measures" were being taken to "protect" both the protesters & the public & also to "protect" any "potential damage" to "vital infrastructure" & or "national monuments" etc.

So when a bunch of predominantly white male, domestic terrorists, ill informed revolutionists, racist rednecks, the disenfranchised, whatever you want to call them, when that mob turned up to the US halls of power publicly threatening an uber-violent coup d'etat what did they get???

They get let in the front door with relatively little resistance.

Relatively few cops, no soldiers, no national guard, no AV's, no tanks & certainly not a fuck'n apache helicopter.

Twilight zone shit & or a conspiracy theorists wet dream ... take your pick.
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
15,705
you need to take most of his stuff now with a grain of salt
Really?
Now Dem congressmen are saying they were sure Republican congressmen were involved, and even one of the Maga crowd says he discussed it all with three Dems in December.
I think Moore has to be on the money with one caveat, you have to throw in some room for genuine incompetency there. After all there were enough warnings about 9/11 they missed.
 
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Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,443
Really?
Now Dem congressmen are saying they were sure Republican congressmen were involved, and even one of the Maga crowd says he discussed it all with three Dems in December.
I think Moore has to be on the money with one caveat, you have to throw in some room for genuine incompetency there. After all there were enough warnings about 9/11 they missed.

Hi Bruce, I like RT for it's international coverage, I take their Russian coverage with a grain of salt.. However, they have programmes like this, take a look and let me know what you think

 

JP_576

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 4, 2020
158
I appreciate your view and I guess I look at it as a wider genuine issues that have enabled Trump, whereas I think you see this as a one off reaction to Trump losing the election.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.
The problem with unity and all that is there are genuine conspiracy theorists in the Republican party.

How can the left side even consider unity when there are elected officials on the right that actively push this Q anon bs.

And then there's this representative that was tweeting regarding nancy pelosi's location during the riot. I won't go into her intentions but not a good look at all.

Like I've said I'm not some kind of Democrat supporter but the republican party is absolutely toxic to it's core.
 

Stone

1st Grade Fringe
May 19, 2012
1,213
Auckland
Like I've said I'm not some kind of Democrat supporter but the republican party is absolutely toxic to it's core.
Yet one party name starts with a capital & the other one a lower case ... Freudian Slip ??? 🤔

Sorry bro ... just kiddin ... I couldn't resist.

IMO the entire system is corrupt & toxic ... not just one party .... or even just in the states ... but the entire world.

There's only one way to begin fixing a derelict house.

You gotta strip it right down until you find a part of it's foundation that's has enough integrity left to build upon.

But you gotta strip it ALL down & get rid of ALL the rot, not just a bit here or a bit there.

Change = pain (my freudian slip lol)
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,705
They have to at least try to convict Trump and stop him running in twenty twenty four.

We all know already what his plans are for the next four years.

Grift his supporters for funds to assist his run for the presidency in four years from now.

While Trump will likely go to prison anyway, you cannot leave that to chance. They have to send a message that Trump is not coming back.

Letting him slip out un challenged is just letting him become even more powerful in the wilderness in terms of making a play for the presidency.

Trump will run a campaign where he promises that they cannot lose, that they cannot be cheated this time, that they will take the country by being 'strong against the Govt'.


Trump is just going to tighten his grip on the populace and expand his support.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
15,705
Like I've said I'm not some kind of Democrat supporter but the republican party is absolutely toxic to it's core.
The Republican Party used to be the home of WASPS and others who wanted minimal government, low taxes and individual responsibility.

The Democrats were a loose configuration of socially minded people, trade unions, organised crime, working class people, feminists and liberals.

With the increase in darker skinned demographics the traditional Republican base is shrinking and has become a home for the white supremacists, beginning with the Tea Party.

They are not a natural fit but the WASPs took them on for their vote, much as the Democrats have sought to motivate Black voters.

Now that it is obvious the Tea Party/Trump crowd are nutters and toxic the true Republicans realise they have to break free, somehow. That is going to half their voting power.

That is going to kill the Republican Party as we know it, and it probably cannot be rebuilt.

However the Democrats are going to have their problems as well. There is a sizeable moderate element in the Democrats that are not that comfortable with the noisy socialist types.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
15,705
They have to send a message that Trump is not coming back.
He is going to have so many financial problems he won't be coming back, unless the Russians bail him out again...that will be the big question. However he will almost certainly never be able to stand again.
 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
2,770
Tauranga
They have to at least try to convict Trump and stop him running in twenty twenty four.

We all know already what his plans are for the next four years.

Grift his supporters for funds to assist his run for the presidency in four years from now.

While Trump will likely go to prison anyway, you cannot leave that to chance. They have to send a message that Trump is not coming back.

Letting him slip out un challenged is just letting him become even more powerful in the wilderness in terms of making a play for the presidency.

Trump will run a campaign where he promises that they cannot lose, that they cannot be cheated this time, that they will take the country by being 'strong against the Govt'.


Trump is just going to tighten his grip on the populace and expand his support.
I don’t think Trump will be back in 2024. There will be back room deals.

I don’t think impeachment is that big a deal wait her yet. Two-thirds of the Senate still must find him guilty so it’s pretty much been just a stunt along party lines so far (despite 10 Republicans supporting it). 2/3 of senators has never happened in US history. Pretty high bar to cross.

Trump is already making his defence under free speech and i think it will prove difficult to convict. It was all preplanned and you can bet Trump kept his wording technically ambiguous.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
15,705
Trump is already making his defence under free speech and i think it will prove difficult to convict.
He is guilty. That wasn't free speech. I doubt they will charge him though.

That would make him a martyr according to James Comey, who hates the prick. Just impeach and stop him standing again and let the financial wolves and SDNY eat him.

Apparently he is already talking bankruptcy. They cannot blame that on the Dems because he is such a successful businessman.

I think what has to be considered that apart from his fear of losing, the Presidency was keeping him away from his legal and financial problems. They are massive to an unhealthy old guy. He knew what he was facing and it isn't pretty.

However his arse lickers will get done. That is exactly what happened with Nixon. They let him off but sent all his arse lickers to jail, I hope that will include the kids.

The Tea Party will have to anoint Ivanka as leader, but she is facing fraud charges as well so she might not be able to stand. The Trump name will be history soon.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
15,705
This looks very bad.


This congresswomen is the real deal. This will go further. Republican congressmen showing the Trumpers around the building the week of the protest.

Also, and as sick as it sounds, Republicans refused to wear masks when asked and spread the virus, the filthy stupid bastards.

Some people are genuine retards.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,705
I don’t think Trump will be back in 2024. There will be back room deals.

I don’t think impeachment is that big a deal wait her yet. Two-thirds of the Senate still must find him guilty so it’s pretty much been just a stunt along party lines so far (despite 10 Republicans supporting it). 2/3 of senators has never happened in US history. Pretty high bar to cross.

Trump is already making his defence under free speech and i think it will prove difficult to convict. It was all preplanned and you can bet Trump kept his wording technically ambiguous.
Trump doesn’t have to run.

He just has to tell his supporters he is running and they will believe it.

Impeachment to me is just an optics thing that Americans believe in, even though to us...well to me anyway...it is laughable because I am sorry I am not a Yank therefore I do not believe the president walks on Water or the Constitution is holy scripture.

I do not care that he is the first to be impeached twice, so what, Trump in his heart of hearts will not give a shit.

I do however think it is vital that a country follows its version of sovereignty and protects its charter.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,705
This looks very bad.


This congresswomen is the real deal. This will go further. Republican congressmen showing the Trumpers around the building the week of the protest.

Also, and as sick as it sounds, Republicans refused to wear masks when asked and spread the virus, the filthy stupid bastards.

Some people are genuine retards.
Trailer trash Bruce.

They were laughing at the poor Democrats asking them to mask up, while the walking dead played out all around them as Rome burned.

There are people with no class despite their ivy league upbringings, they are class less.
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
8,261
I’ll play the game 😉. A more appropriate analogy is a workplace.

If i’m the leader of a unionised workplace and there is a group of workers that object to where the workplace is heading - extra hours for reducing pay; outsource key work; putting a few rich customers before the staff; etc. When they strike in frustration, do I take a stand and lock then out or be conciliatory - try to understand their point of view and move forward positively.

As it’s unionised the staff cannot be removed (similar to the voting public of the US). The best way forward is to be listen and meet in the middle or the disgruntled workplace culture will tear the company apart.

I appreciate your view and I guess I look at it as a wider genuine issues that have enabled Trump, whereas I think you see this as a one off reaction to Trump losing the election.
ok while its clear we disagree, i'll use your analogy to reiterate my point of view.

While company members are striking, i have no problem, But when they trash the business, and attempt to kill someone - you dont sit there and take it. You call the cops and let the law take over.

I think Sup said it best when he said you dont deal with terrorists you go after them. It should not matter if they are domestic or international. While their actions are the same, the consequences should be the same.

I dont get why you keep trying to equate this to a non violent event. These people are not looking for reconciliation they want blood.

I separate the Republican voters who voted for trump from those extremists who broke into the building or struck at police officers etc. So we're not talking 70 million people were talking maybe a thousand radicals or extremists. Yes by all means get the non violent to talk and heal the land - all kumbiya and stuff, but dont ignore the people who came with bad intention and acted on it.

And as for comparing it to BLM protests, the only one of those that happened in the same place had 100s of arrests and tear gas on a peaceful crowd, instigated by the self same man that encouraged the terrorists that actually killed a cop inside the building styled as the heart of american democracy.

the new york times reports that somewhere between 15 and 26 million people have protested re the death of George Floyd, there have been 14,000 arrests but only 18 deaths and not all those were caused by people protesting for BLM.
at this one trump protest, which was defn not arranged or staged by antifa, what 10,000 terrorists at the most, but hey lets exaggerate it, 50,000 extremists were responsible for the death of 5 people, but only 85 arrests so far.

So under your analogy of the union, the bigger union while mostly peaceful and being persecuted, is having their views ignored, while the violent smaller more dangerous union is being egged on and directed, by the company CEO who the board has replaced, to perpetrate a business takeover. In both cases the law should be followed, no criminal activity can not be ignored for the sake of healing, as it just creates carte blanch for the next set of goons on either side.
 

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