Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,333
No I'm not ..
I'm disagreeing with your assumption that the un has made my life better.
Don't go twisting facts an throwing accusations ..
I have not said CV doesn't exist .I am merely stating that a lot of people have different opinions on how it should be handled .
An we are not even half way through it's run .So you can't claim success
Or it's beaten ..An none of us know the cost to life or how this will change
The way we live in the future ..
I thought I deleted that post before you could quote it.

Comparing the Flu to Covid is what started this whole mess of miss information.
Covid kills at six to ten times the rate.
Not even the same ball park.

The reason I deleted that post was this is getting tiresome for people to read and although I feel some responsibility to push back against miss information, you are an adult and therefore arguing is probably not helping to educate here, rather more likely to further entrench them.

Going to have to respectfully strongly disagree.
 

Off The Bench

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 26, 2014
3,050
I thought I deleted that post before you could quote it.

Comparing the Flu to Covid is what started this whole mess of miss information.
Covid kills at six to ten times the rate.
Not even the same ball park.

The reason I deleted that post was this is getting tiresome for people to read and although I feel some responsibility to push back against miss information, you are an adult and therefore arguing is probably not helping to educate here, rather more likely to further entrench them.

Going to have to respectfully strongly disagree.
To be fair no one really wants anyone else to suffer
But sometimes the worst results come out of the best intentions

Prohibition of alcohol great idea
Result organized crime epidemic
Thyldamide for mum's nice idea
Result not good .
The list is to long to mention .of well meaning people an organizations that have had unforseen terrible implications .

So yes I am against far reaching organizations telling everyone what is best .
Because we are all unique cultures an circumstances
An I truly don't know how this will effect people's personal phychies going forward .
Social distancing might have an alienating effect on some people .
This whole thing could destroy some family ties
We won't know for years .
What we do know is that overseas it has closed a lot of small businesses
Restaurants etc
An has been a boom for larger enterprises like amazon
An that's a cultural change that's been forced .

An a lot of people around the world are not happy.
They might all be wrong .But they are not wrong to say about it.
 

Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
1,218
To be fair no one really wants anyone else to suffer
But sometimes the worst results come out of the best intentions

Prohibition of alcohol great idea
Result organized crime epidemic
Thyldamide for mum's nice idea
Result not good .
The list is to long to mention .of well meaning people an organizations that have had unforseen terrible implications .

So yes I am against far reaching organizations telling everyone what is best .
Because we are all unique cultures an circumstances
An I truly don't know how this will effect people's personal phychies going forward .
Social distancing might have an alienating effect on some people .
This whole thing could destroy some family ties
We won't know for years .
What we do know is that overseas it has closed a lot of small businesses
Restaurants etc
An has been a boom for larger enterprises like amazon
An that's a cultural change that's been forced .

An a lot of people around the world are not happy.
They might all be wrong .But they are not wrong to say about it.
We all think very differently on many topics and who's to say who's right and who's wrong. Putting all the measures in place for this virus is going to take a long time, if it can even be done as it's ever changing, all we can do is follow the experts advice and look on at other models in countries to see how they're coping. Swedens change of tack suggests lockdown is a necessary tool I think. As you say, we won't know for years. The yanks are so used to fighting an enemy they can just shoot, this enemy has them fucked.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,333
To be fair no one really wants anyone else to suffer
But sometimes the worst results come out of the best intentions

Prohibition of alcohol great idea
Result organized crime epidemic
Thyldamide for mum's nice idea
Result not good .
The list is to long to mention .of well meaning people an organizations that have had unforseen terrible implications .

So yes I am against far reaching organizations telling everyone what is best .
Because we are all unique cultures an circumstances
An I truly don't know how this will effect people's personal phychies going forward .
Social distancing might have an alienating effect on some people .
This whole thing could destroy some family ties
We won't know for years .
What we do know is that overseas it has closed a lot of small businesses
Restaurants etc
An has been a boom for larger enterprises like amazon
An that's a cultural change that's been forced .

An a lot of people around the world are not happy.
They might all be wrong .But they are not wrong to say about it.
Science is not subjective.

So while people emotively reacted to unforeseen consequences of science, in my world view their feelings have no relevance.

What matters Scientifically speaking is good science.

Science is modest, it never claims 100% proof of anything, that is the scientific process.

Science is a tool, it is not a political entity. peoples whacky or ignorant ideas about science have no relevance in fact.

Being angry with Scientific arguments is akin to being angry with a screw driver or a Hammer.

The key is to forget that human limitations like intentions have any place in Scientific debate.

Science exists independent of peoples intentions, or their ignorance.

It is a system of facts and proofs.

It is limited by the human variable that is the individuals who wield it.

Attacks on Science are attacks on truth and enlightenment.

The cu** factor that is Donald Trump is that he attacks Scientists. Good and even truly great Scientists.

My personal heroes. Fuck sports Jocks, Scientists are the real super humans of the world,

And Fuck Trump and his Nazi campaign against Science.

New Zealand is rated number one in the world in managing pandemic Science.

Three reasons. One we have the best scientists in the world. Two we have the populace who listen. Three we have the leader who uses the star studded scientific team to drive everything Covid.

Our Covid system is so good that New Zealanders no longer fear the pandemic, nor the outbreaks.

We have so much confidence in our systems which are truly incredible that we know Covid is not going to get out of control in our communities.

We actually know that we can beat it over and over without stress....and rtght now that is a state of mind few of eight billion people can claim the privilege of. And we know this because New Zealand built a bepoke anti pandemic Matrix from Zero and continually reviews and upgrades its firewall.
 
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Off The Bench

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 26, 2014
3,050
Science is not subjective.

So while people emotively reacted to unforeseen consequences of science, in my world view their feelings have no relevance.

What matters Scientifically speaking is good science.

Science is modest, it never claims 100% proof of anything, that is the scientific process.

Science is a tool, it is not a political entity. peoples whacky or ignorant ideas about science have no relevance in fact.

Being angry with Scientific arguments is akin to being angry with a screw driver or a Hammer.

The key is to forget that human limitations like intentions have any place in Scientific debate.

Science exists independent of peoples intentions, or their ignorance.

It is a system of facts and proofs.

It is limited by the human variable that is the individuals who wield it.

Attacks on Science are attacks on truth and enlightenment.

The cu** factor that is Donald Trump is that he attacks Scientists. Good and even truly great Scientists.

My personal heroes. Fuck sports Jocks, Scientists are the real super humans of the world,

And Fuck Trump and his Nazi campaign against Science.

New Zealand is rated number one in the world in managing pandemic Science.

Three reasons. One we have the best scientists in the world. Two we have the populace who listen. Three we have the leader who uses the star studded scientific team to drive everything Covid.
There are people from Europe africa an who knows where else that don't want this .
An to say that one piss arse island with no boarders an a tiny population got it right .If we had other countries on our borders we would have been just as screwed.as every other country
An as for science the who last week said lockdowns don't work
What are they saying this week .?
So I'm glad you have a crystal ball an can see long term what is happening
To different cultures there way of life family structures an businesses
But I don't pretend to
An am willing to ask the questions.Of which there are many .
An science has got it wrong many times before
It is continually changing
That is the nature of science . Questions data evaluation
Observations made over time .more evaluation
 
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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,333
There are people from Europe africa an who knows where else that don't want this .
An to say that one piss arse island with no boarders an a tiny population got it right .If we had other countries on our borders we would have been just as screwed.as every other country
An as for science the who last week said lockdowns don't work
What are they saying this week .?
So I'm glad you have a crystal ball an can see long term what is happening
To different cultures there way of life family structures an businesses
But I don't pretend to
An am willing to ask the questions.Of which there are many .
An science has got it wrong many times before
It is continually changing
That is the nature of science . Questions data evaluation
Observations made over time .more evaluation
Australia is an Island.

No Covid defeat for them.

They have more health care resources than New Zealand per head of population because of their mineral rich economy.


They have suffered economically far greater than NZ because of the type excuses in your post.

And they are right fkn next door with the a similar culture.

Don’t try down play NZs world beating Covid response.

Take a look at a heat map of the American continent.


USA is RED.

Canada at that straight border is entirely black with a few small read dots.


There is so much bullshit out there mate.

\
You are entitled ot an opinion and google searches, and I am entitled to my degree in health science and two decades working in health care.

There is no.....ZERO difference between Australia as landmass argument surrounded by Ocean than NZ.

In fact like I said, they are way better resourced to be Covid free.

But they are not and have not achieved covid free days despite quarantine and a year of trying.

What our county does is incredible.

And that is fact. And the only difference is their willingness to use their advantages over their greed, and New Zealands brilliance at adopting the science and having a singular Political response.
 
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Off The Bench

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 26, 2014
3,050
Australia is an Island.

No Covid defeat for them.

They have more health care resources than New Zealand per head of population because of their mineral rich economy.


They have suffered economically far greater than NZ because of the type excuses in your post.

And they are right fkn next door with the a similar culture.

Don’t try down play NZs world beating Covid response.

Take a look at a heat map of the American continent.


USA is RED.

Canada at that straight border is entirely black with a few small read dots.


There is so much bullshit out there mate.


This is my field dont even bother trying.
Aussie has a big population anis close to some of its neighbors
We do not .like I said it's a lot easier for a piss arse country in the middle of nowhere
Canada has suffered .as well .
Europe ,Africa ,asia it's here an here for a while .
The question still remains what do people who live in their own countries
Want to do .
How do they want to live their lives ..
What sacrifices are they willing to make ?
An what will it cost them .
An what will be the cost long-term to them an their cultures
All valid questions
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,333
Aussie has a big population anis close to some of its neighbors
We do not .like I said it's a lot easier for a piss arse country in the middle of nowhere
Canada has suffered .as well .
Europe ,Africa ,asia it's here an here for a while .
The question still remains what do people who live in their own countries
Want to do .
How do they want to live their lives ..
What sacrifices are they willing to make ?
An what will it cost them .
An what will be the cost long-term to them an their cultures
All valid questions
Are we suffering?

Vaccine and end game is coming.

Twenty five Kiwis died.

Thousands of families were saved the horror of funerals.
 

Off The Bench

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 26, 2014
3,050
Are we suffering?

Vaccine and end game is coming.

Twenty five Kiwis died.

Thousands of families were saved the horror of funerals.
Yes for us we did the right thing.
In other countries with different circumstances it's tougher
India for example would not be able to do a lockdown
I don't believe they have the social services structure.
An some countries borders are literally right across the street from the neighbors
With no road blocks just a line .
Europe had open borders in many areas .
An italy has many generations in the same house .
All different circumstances .

The vaccine fingers crossed .
But once again some individuals are going to run a mile from it
But iv got family working in hospitals in NZ australia ,England
An they have all been pretty calm an unaffected by it .
An they have different ideas ..about the responces .
But I hope goes away .
 

Rick O'Shay

Warriors 1st Grader
May 1, 2013
3,357
Australia is an Island.

No Covid defeat for them.

They have more health care resources than New Zealand per head of population because of their mineral rich economy.


They have suffered economically far greater than NZ because of the type excuses in your post.

And they are right fkn next door with the a similar culture.

Don’t try down play NZs world beating Covid response.

Take a look at a heat map of the American continent.


USA is RED.

Canada at that straight border is entirely black with a few small read dots.


There is so much bullshit out there mate.

\
You are entitled ot an opinion and google searches, and I am entitled to my degree in health science and two decades working in health care.

There is no.....ZERO difference between Australia as landmass argument surrounded by Ocean than NZ.

In fact like I said, they are way better resourced to be Covid free.

But they are not and have not achieved covid free days despite quarantine and a year of trying.

What our county does is incredible.

And that is fact. And the only difference is their willingness to use their advantages over their greed, and New Zealands brilliance at adopting the science and having a singular Political response.
WA, NT, QLD and Tas have done pretty well. WA in particular, remote, small population, tight border control and their industries are thriving.

We forget sometimes that Australia as a whole is completely different to here with Federal and State systems.
 

Rick O'Shay

Warriors 1st Grader
May 1, 2013
3,357
Yes for us we did the right thing.
In other countries with different circumstances it's tougher
India for example would not be able to do a lockdown
I don't believe they have the social services structure.
An some countries borders are literally right across the street from the neighbors
With no road blocks just a line .
Europe had open borders in many areas .
An italy has many generations in the same house .
All different circumstances .

The vaccine fingers crossed .
But once again some individuals are going to run a mile from it
But iv got family working in hospitals in NZ australia ,England
An they have all been pretty calm an unaffected by it .
An they have different ideas ..about the responces .
But I hope goes away .

"I may not agree with what you say or even like it, but I will defend to the death, your right to say it"
 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
2,477
Tauranga
Nature is cruel by its definition. In nature if you are weak or cannot survive by yourself you will die. Natural selection; survival of the fittest. Nature shapes and moulds ecosystems.

Nature is everything humans have strived to get away from.

Except Americans. They are the closest to a natural society.

It’s not wrong, just different
 
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JP_576

U20's Player
Aug 4, 2020
21
Aussie has a big population anis close to some of its neighbors
We do not .like I said it's a lot easier for a piss arse country in the middle of nowhere
Canada has suffered .as well .
Europe ,Africa ,asia it's here an here for a while .
The question still remains what do people who live in their own countries
Want to do .
How do they want to live their lives ..
What sacrifices are they willing to make ?
An what will it cost them .
An what will be the cost long-term to them an their cultures
All valid questions
Taiwan goes against your argument for Aussie tho.
My kiwi mate that lives in Aussie now was saying we're being a bit overboard with our lockdowns back when we first went into lockdown. I told him back then that I'd be willing to bet we'd come out better off for it in the long run and still stand by that.
Sidenote: He was a trump supporter so I know half of his thinking was subconsciously defending Trumps idiotic response to covid.
I absolutely hate Trump but he could have easily coasted to victory if he had listened to scientests and made wearing masks, lockdowns and social distancing an American patriotic duty to fight the enemy that is Covid.
His cult like followers would've easily eaten that up
 

Off The Bench

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 26, 2014
3,050
Taiwan goes against your argument for Aussie tho.
My kiwi mate that lives in Aussie now was saying we're being a bit overboard with our lockdowns back when we first went into lockdown. I told him back then that I'd be willing to bet we'd come out better off for it in the long run and still stand by that.
Sidenote: He was a trump supporter so I know half of his thinking was subconsciously defending Trumps idiotic response to covid.
I absolutely hate Trump but he could have easily coasted to victory if he had listened to scientests and made wearing masks, lockdowns and social distancing an American patriotic duty to fight the enemy that is Covid.
His cult like followers would've easily eaten that up

No they wouldn't have .
I was quite happy in my lockdown first holiday in many year's for me
But my red neck pen pals noway .
Watch the trump cultist run from the vaccine .
Even though president trump has personally made a vaccine for coronavirus
An has organized it's distribution with the operation warp speed .

See the thing you guys don't understand
Is trump has been following the will of the people
Not the other way around .
Anyways it's not over yet trump 2020
 
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Noitall

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 21, 2019
1,218
No they wouldn't have .
I was quite happy in my lockdown first holiday in many year's for me
But my red neck pen pals noway .
Watch the trump cultist run from the vaccine .
Even though president trump has personally made a vaccine for coronavirus
An has organized it's distribution with the operation warp speed .

See the thing you guys don't understand
Is trump has been following the will of the people
Not the other way around .
Anyways it's not over yet trump 2020
While our views differ here and there I totally agree with you that this isn't over at all, and personally it scares the shit out of me. You don't have a 72 plus million base who at the severe far right end of the spectrum aren't going to recognise a Biden led presidency and there not be repercussions for that country. I know you say a Biden presidency plays into a one government world theory and a reset and that could be true but I see a trump second term as a country heading towards a dictatorship watching his contempt for the press and his treatment of questions he doesn't like which is why I don't think he's answering questions at the moment. I see a second term as the end of democracy with all the major powers in the world in dictatorships and you may be right that a reset is set but that may be the only way democracy survives. One things certain is this is all bigger than all of us and is going to happen either way, all we can do is roll with it or come together and fight it. I know the group that seems more mobilised and that's what scares the shit out of me.
 

Off The Bench

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 26, 2014
3,050
While our views differ here and there I totally agree with you that this isn't over at all, and personally it scares the shit out of me. You don't have a 72 plus million base who at the severe far right end of the spectrum aren't going to recognise a Biden led presidency and there not be repercussions for that country. I know you say a Biden presidency plays into a one government world theory and a reset and that could be true but I see a trump second term as a country heading towards a dictatorship watching his contempt for the press and his treatment of questions he doesn't like which is why I don't think he's answering questions at the moment. I see a second term as the end of democracy with all the major powers in the world in dictatorships and you may be right that a reset is set but that may be the only way democracy survives. One things certain is this is all bigger than all of us and is going to happen either way, all we can do is roll with it or come together and fight it. I know the group that seems more mobilised and that's what scares the shit out of me.
Pretty much .
An well put ..
That well mobilized group has been sitting on their hands .
Doing nothing they have had members killed in riots .
The other well vocalized group has been busy .rioting
If this kicks off they going to go at each other
An both sides are going to get a shock .
 

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