Rizzah

Stop Being Shit
Contributor
Apr 18, 2012
5,231
Dunedin, NZ
Here's NSW and NZ
1634175373127.png
 

Viking

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 12, 2012
1,992
Remind me where that line comes from. It is bothering me.
Kayser Soze in Usual Suspects but the quote itself dates back to the 18th century.

The follow up to it is; "The second greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he is the good guy".
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,012

Covid-19 Delta outbreak: NZ and its hospitals - overwhelmed or adequately staffed?​

A Wellington doctor has rejected the Health Minister's comments that there has been an increase in the number of intensive care unit beds - and has challenged him to find "just one" clinician that could support the claim.

Capital and Coast District Health Board intensive care specialist Dr Paul Young spoke out after Health Minister Andrew Little told RNZ that since the pandemic began about 100 more ICU beds had been added nationally.

"Dear @AndrewLittleMP," he wrote on Twitter.

"I am afraid that your assertion that the number of staffed ICU beds has increased from 234 to 340 in the past 15 months is false.

"I challenge you to visit any ICU in the country and find one clinician (just one) who can show their newly staffed beds."

Little said the Government had begun training more ICU-qualified nurses, which had reached 1400, since the beginning of 2020.

ICU capacity nationwide currently hovered around 65 to 70 per cent, while total hospital utilisation sat around 80 to 85 per cent.

"So there is some spare capacity."

He said in the coming months people with Covid-19 could be assured that they would be cared for.

"We can surge up to 550 ICU or HDU level care beds.

"That will put planned care at risk, so people will lose planned care operations and stuff."

There was pressure on hospitals and headway was being made to bring in more nurses to deal with Covid-19 patients in intensive care units.

"That's why last year we started the programme of providing that additional training for more nurses, now nearly 1400, to work in an ICU environment. Even if they're not a fully qualified ICU nurse, they can work in an ICU environment."

Little said that plan had worked in the UK.

The Ministry would work with DHBs to help clear the backlog.

There was also surge capacity to fill crucial nursing gaps on short notice.

"We know there is a shortage at the moment, but like other healthcare professionals they are facing vulnerable people and vulnerable populations.

But Dr Young said they "desperately need a national directive and funding to staff our current ICU capacity.

"It is not about preparing for a surge [although that is still important].

"Instead, it is about preparing for a new disease which in the UK at a relatively steady state, and with a high rate of immunity, is using the equivalent of 25 per cent of our normal ICU capacity every day ... adjusting for the population size."

He said a staffed ICU bed was one where "specialist ICU-trained nursing staff are available to provide 24/7 care to a patient requiring ventilation with a staff: patient ratio of 1:1, & where at least one specialist is exclusively rostered to the ICU at all times.

"If you are receiving advice that we have 340 staffed ICU beds, you are receiving bad advice," he wrote.

When asked about the percentage of patients in hospital that are vaccinated, Young replied, "vaccination is by far the most important thing you can do to protect yourself".

"Almost every patient admitted to hospital in this outbreak was unvaccinated."

When approached for a response, Little told the Herald that the figures he spoke of are reported by DHBs and "it is unlikely individual ICU specialists from individual DHBs are aware of the capacity of the system as a whole".

"In August last year DHBs were asked to confirm what additional beds they could convert to ICU/HDU care at short notice. DHBs collectively advised they could provide up to between 320 and 340 ICU/HDU beds altogether. This would be on the basis of there being additional trained staff and access to ventilators.

"DHBs were also asked what additional capacity they could create for ICU/HDU care, even if it meant compromising planned care scheduled. On this basis DHBs advised they could increased capacity to 550.

"In order to provide this, the Ministry of Health provided additional funding to DHBs for training to allow other nurses to work in an ICU/HDU environment. Funding was also provided to create more negative pressure spaces and for more ventilators."

Dr Richard Stubbs, general surgeon and Chairman of Medicus, said an overwhelmed healthcare system meant more than just "exhausted doctors and nurses and a lack of ICU beds."

"The UK's healthcare system has provided a clear example of an overwhelmed healthcare system and its impacts.

"Figures released by the College of Surgeons England show that wait lists for elective procedures have increased 10-fold from before the Covid-19 outbreak until now.

"More than five million people in the UK are currently waiting on elective procedures. This is a vast amount of people and will mean an entire generation will live debilitated or, in many cases, die early due to diseases not being caught early and treated."

When New Zealand considered 'opening up' the Government needed to ensure the country was prepared to deal with Covid-19 patients at the exclusion of care for patients with exiting and other illnesses.

Andrew Little is the classic spokesman who can sound good because he knows nothing about the subjects. Trouble is somebody gave him the wrong lines to read :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
20,012
It costs one hundred and ten million dollars to run a vaccine trial. Then to speed things up they needed hundreds of millions to make product so it was ready to go once it passed all of the usual checks and balances.
Chemical research is like buying expensive lotto tickets...and then you have a patent for 20 years when you win Powerball
 
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flying coconut

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 21, 2012
1,087
Let's not say its mostly the elderly for arguments sake, because that is factually correct.
All I've heard about for the last two years is the healthcare system. All while Australian hospitals sit empty. No doubt the newswatchers on here will now post articles about the dozen ambulances lined up outside the Epworth in Melbourne but not a single one will bother looking into it beyond the original article
Australian hospitals sit empty?

What drugs are you on, I work in the hospital system so can tell you that you are 100% wrong, many hospital are full at the moment to the point where people who should be in hospital are being treated remotely at home.

I organise to send out the equipment they need on a daily basis and there are hundreds of them.
 

flying coconut

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 21, 2012
1,087
This unvaxxed number is the one now hey, not the total vaccinations.

The way my brain works, it seems a lot easier to conceptualize the equation you have outlined over some grey vaccine percentage of a hard to remember population size.

Lowering the unvaxxed by ten percent in a week is epic. long may it continue.

I think you will find that of the population about 92-93% will get vaccinated.

There are probably about 5% who are hesitant thanks to all the misinformation these muttonheads are spreading around.

Then you have the 2-3% anti vaxxers like these twits on here who will never get it.

No great shame, at the end of the day they will get Covid at some point and some of them will get off lightly, some won't.

You can guarantee if they get it bad they will change their tune real quick and be begging for help.
 

matiunz

All Out!
Contributor
Jul 15, 2013
8,701
Sydney
Awesome stuff! Synchronised from the day of the first case?

From memory Sydney took off early and got under control again. Melbourne was lower for longer before taking off.

edit. - just saw the combined Vic post as well
Sydney had a relatively slow lead in which lead many to believe it would be just like the other mini outbreaks and would be controlled similarly, it then exploded. It then got to a peak of 1600 before leveling out and it seems to drop 200 odd a week and then stay that level around a week. This week it’s hovering around the 400 mark but the big test will be the number in 2-3 weeks time
 

DavidMcKay1974

1st Grade Fringe
Aug 28, 2013
2,647
Okay I just got my second covid jab so in about two weeks I will be fully protected. Feel okay at the moment. Just waiting for the sore arm to kick in. I'll let you know tomorrow how I feel.

My bro in law was really sore after getting his first shot, and he had really bad aches and pains, and he wasn't really looking forward to getting his second shot. But he did. He was really fine, it didn't really hit him and he was up and around doing gardening the day after. It's like he was on a different drug. Shouldn't say that, some anti-vaxers on here might think the second one wasn't real.
 

snake77

Warriors 1st Grader
Jul 12, 2013
9,956
Auckland
Okay I just got my second covid jab so in about two weeks I will be fully protected. Feel okay at the moment. Just waiting for the sore arm to kick in. I'll let you know tomorrow how I feel.

My bro in law was really sore after getting his first shot, and he had really bad aches and pains, and he wasn't really looking forward to getting his second shot. But he did. He was really fine, it didn't really hit him and he was up and around doing gardening the day after. It's like he was on a different drug. Shouldn't say that, some anti-vaxers on here might think the second one wasn't real.
Its quite interesting the different effects everyone has. I had a sore arm like the flu vaccine for the first one that lasted a few days. The second one was a lot easier. The vaccinator said relax over the weekend if you need to. Of course I got my wife rushed in on the same day and we have 2 young boys so relaxing wasn't an option.

My wife had her second one yesterday and I haven't heard her mention any issues.

I visited my 84 year old father the same day he got his first one and besides his stories about waiting to get the shot you wouldn't notice anything. Mind you he falls asleep a few times every afternoon anyway.
 

The crow

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 22, 2020
372

Covid-19 Delta outbreak: NZ and its hospitals - overwhelmed or adequately staffed?​

A Wellington doctor has rejected the Health Minister's comments that there has been an increase in the number of intensive care unit beds - and has challenged him to find "just one" clinician that could support the claim.

Capital and Coast District Health Board intensive care specialist Dr Paul Young spoke out after Health Minister Andrew Little told RNZ that since the pandemic began about 100 more ICU beds had been added nationally.

"Dear @AndrewLittleMP," he wrote on Twitter.

"I am afraid that your assertion that the number of staffed ICU beds has increased from 234 to 340 in the past 15 months is false.

"I challenge you to visit any ICU in the country and find one clinician (just one) who can show their newly staffed beds."

Little said the Government had begun training more ICU-qualified nurses, which had reached 1400, since the beginning of 2020.

ICU capacity nationwide currently hovered around 65 to 70 per cent, while total hospital utilisation sat around 80 to 85 per cent.

"So there is some spare capacity."

He said in the coming months people with Covid-19 could be assured that they would be cared for.

"We can surge up to 550 ICU or HDU level care beds.

"That will put planned care at risk, so people will lose planned care operations and stuff."

There was pressure on hospitals and headway was being made to bring in more nurses to deal with Covid-19 patients in intensive care units.

"That's why last year we started the programme of providing that additional training for more nurses, now nearly 1400, to work in an ICU environment. Even if they're not a fully qualified ICU nurse, they can work in an ICU environment."

Little said that plan had worked in the UK.

The Ministry would work with DHBs to help clear the backlog.

There was also surge capacity to fill crucial nursing gaps on short notice.

"We know there is a shortage at the moment, but like other healthcare professionals they are facing vulnerable people and vulnerable populations.

But Dr Young said they "desperately need a national directive and funding to staff our current ICU capacity.

"It is not about preparing for a surge [although that is still important].

"Instead, it is about preparing for a new disease which in the UK at a relatively steady state, and with a high rate of immunity, is using the equivalent of 25 per cent of our normal ICU capacity every day ... adjusting for the population size."

He said a staffed ICU bed was one where "specialist ICU-trained nursing staff are available to provide 24/7 care to a patient requiring ventilation with a staff: patient ratio of 1:1, & where at least one specialist is exclusively rostered to the ICU at all times.

"If you are receiving advice that we have 340 staffed ICU beds, you are receiving bad advice," he wrote.

When asked about the percentage of patients in hospital that are vaccinated, Young replied, "vaccination is by far the most important thing you can do to protect yourself".

"Almost every patient admitted to hospital in this outbreak was unvaccinated."

When approached for a response, Little told the Herald that the figures he spoke of are reported by DHBs and "it is unlikely individual ICU specialists from individual DHBs are aware of the capacity of the system as a whole".

"In August last year DHBs were asked to confirm what additional beds they could convert to ICU/HDU care at short notice. DHBs collectively advised they could provide up to between 320 and 340 ICU/HDU beds altogether. This would be on the basis of there being additional trained staff and access to ventilators.

"DHBs were also asked what additional capacity they could create for ICU/HDU care, even if it meant compromising planned care scheduled. On this basis DHBs advised they could increased capacity to 550.

"In order to provide this, the Ministry of Health provided additional funding to DHBs for training to allow other nurses to work in an ICU/HDU environment. Funding was also provided to create more negative pressure spaces and for more ventilators."

Dr Richard Stubbs, general surgeon and Chairman of Medicus, said an overwhelmed healthcare system meant more than just "exhausted doctors and nurses and a lack of ICU beds."

"The UK's healthcare system has provided a clear example of an overwhelmed healthcare system and its impacts.

"Figures released by the College of Surgeons England show that wait lists for elective procedures have increased 10-fold from before the Covid-19 outbreak until now.

"More than five million people in the UK are currently waiting on elective procedures. This is a vast amount of people and will mean an entire generation will live debilitated or, in many cases, die early due to diseases not being caught early and treated."

When New Zealand considered 'opening up' the Government needed to ensure the country was prepared to deal with Covid-19 patients at the exclusion of care for patients with exiting and other illnesses.

Wow. This bloke again. How is he still the health minister?
 
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Viking

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 12, 2012
1,992
Australian hospitals sit empty?

What drugs are you on, I work in the hospital system so can tell you that you are 100% wrong, many hospital are full at the moment to the point where people who should be in hospital are being treated remotely at home.

I organise to send out the equipment they need on a daily basis and there are hundreds of them.
No response to this rebuttal yet? flying coconut is waiting to find out what drugs you're on Crow.
 

The crow

1st Grade Fringe
Jul 22, 2020
372
No response to this rebuttal yet? flying coconut is waiting to find out what drugs you're on Crow.
He's welcome to keep sending his equipment to these overflowing hospitals. I'll keep believing what I see with my own eyes, what I'm told by paramedics and nurses I know.

I'll also let you know that I won't be outlining what's going on from start to finish for inruin because I have no idea.
I just don't believe the official narrative at all. If you do, great. Happy for you believe whatever you want. I'd just encourage all to do a bit of scratching around.
 
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Inruin

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
May 19, 2012
10,312
Auckland
He's welcome to keep sending his equipment to these overflowing hospitals. I'll keep believing what I see with my own eyes, what I'm told by paramedics and nurses I know.

I'll also let you know that I won't be outlining what's going on from start to finish for inruin because I have no idea.
I just don't believe the official narrative at all. If you do, great. Happy for you believe whatever you want. I'd just encourage all to do a bit of scratching around.
Fantastic. So something is going on but you don't know what or by who. 🤣 Scratching around for what? If you have an itch get it checked out.

One of the few honest things I have heard from you. You have no idea
 

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