Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,698
Not happy reading.

Crazy Germany of all places are having issues, given their culture and legend with logistics.

Belgium of all places is in last place.

For our own part here in NZ I guess we will strictly follow the timing guidelines of the second dose since we do not have wild Covid.

Our Flu mass roll out this year was a balls up.

So no one is expecting it to go smoothly here.

Obviously we need to copy the UK. We historically obviously have done that in health care since the founding of the nation.
 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
2,770
Tauranga
Our Flu mass roll out this year was a balls up. So no one is expecting it to go smoothly here.
WTF - I expect a competent roll out - they have had a year to plan and virtually unlimited funding to get this right. Every single day there is a covid threat people suffer through missing overseas funerals, tourism businesses failing, etc.

This is the most important job for the government this year and it can’t be another labour failure - thats unacceptable.
 

Rick O'Shay

Warriors 1st Grader
May 1, 2013
3,414
I'm disappointed in the general lack of information as to what we are doing and are planning on doing not only for the vaccine roll out but also border protection, MIQ etc. Can we make more improvements other than test everyone 72hours before they get on a plane. July seems a long way away.

The number of people scanning is abysmal. Don't we have the legislative power to make this compulsory like wearing seatbelts or using your phone in the car? And where are we at with the tracer app, seems to have gone very quiet.

The situation at the moment seems akin to the 100 days grace we had last time.

In my view we've become complacent again
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,698
WTF - I expect a competent roll out - they have had a year to plan and virtually unlimited funding to get this right. Every single day there is a covid threat people suffer through missing overseas funerals, tourism businesses failing, etc.

This is the most important job for the government this year and it can’t be another labour failure - thats unacceptable.
The hurdles have nothing to do with the party in GOVT.

You only need look at what is happening globally, there are only two countries getting anywhere near the hoped roll out targets, Israel and the UK.

The reality is that even for well resourced countries like Germany, is that there are logistical problems with too many independent variables to expect a smooth roll out.

Supply is a problem for NZ. Big problem, we have agreements, but I would not be counting on them till they arrive.

Administering the Jabs seems to be a global problem, even the UK is behind where they hoped to be there, even though they have taken unprecedented levels of focus to push it through.

We have done well to get agreements from Pharma, but what does that mean in reality? how long will those doses take to actually receive landed?

Not even the govt can answer that, they can only say company X have agreed to supply around such and such date.

Maybe NZ will be different, maybe we will succeed where others failed. I won't be holding my breath.


Some of these Vaccines require two jabs. What is the likely hood that people will come back in the timely fashion for their repeat Jab?
 
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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,698
Across the pond the US is a nightmare. We are seeing the awaited holiday season Tsunami.

It is hard to know what to say now the kill rate is hitting these numbers, and Covid itself is at war, UK strain vs New US strain.



 
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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,698
There is an interview with a Kiwi Nurse working in Britain on RNZ National which I found interesting in terms of being able to identify with her as a ex Nurse.

She talks about being scared at work sometimes, scared of the virus.

Treating a lot of young people, seeing pregnant women on her case load now with the new strain.

The managers issuing a declaration that no nurse will be investigated for making the decision to leave a patient to die....any and all patients, so that obviously includes young people.

This is a big deal, NFR orders (not for resuscitation, are only issued for the elderly).

She says that in some hospital I.C.U.'s they are literally running for twelve hours, because they are looking after up to five patients (NZ I.C.U normally you are 1:1 or 2 staff to one patient).

What really captured my attention was her saying that Nurses talk about how the UK are islands just like NZ and that the political decisions have caused this.

Ultimately guys this is how it is.

You either go for under thirty deaths as an Island state or you go for eighty thousand.

No excuses.

Govts can stop the virus.
 

Rick O'Shay

Warriors 1st Grader
May 1, 2013
3,414
There is an interview with a Kiwi Nurse working in Britain on RNZ National which I found interesting in terms of being able to identify with her as a ex Nurse.

She talks about being scared at work sometimes, scared of the virus.

Treating a lot of young people, seeing pregnant women on her case load now with the new strain.

The managers issuing a declaration that no nurse will be investigated for making the decision to leave a patient to die....any and all patients, so that obviously includes young people.

This is a big deal, NFR orders (not for resuscitation, are only issued for the elderly).

She says that in some hospital I.C.U.'s they are literally running for twelve hours, because they are looking after up to five patients (NZ I.C.U normally you are 1:1 or 2 staff to one patient).

What really captured my attention was her saying that Nurses talk about how the UK are islands just like NZ and that the political decisions have caused this.

Ultimately guys this is how it is.

You either go for under thirty deaths as an Island state or you go for eighty thousand.

No excuses.

Govts can stop the virus.

Not quite as simple as it is here Dave. The UK is a lot closer positionally and economically to it's nearest neighbours than what we are and relies more on road transport for imports/exports than shipping.

Remember the 3000 truckies stuck on the UK side of the border when europe went into lockdown a few days before xmas. The UK is nowhere near self sufficient.

Their culture is also very different in terms of space (we have it, they don't) With a population of 66m and a land mass slightly smaller than NZ there's always going to be a struggle with proximity.

We along with very few other countries are unique (Taiwan for example) being easily isolated and only relying on air and sea for imports/exports. Ports and airports are controllable especially with limited numbers.

Boris and Co haven't exactly been shining stars in this shitfest but the circumstances and the tyranny of distance are completely different.

One thing we can give them a tick for is their development and roll out of the vaccine. We still don't know when we will get the jab and our answer to everything is, trust us, hang tight and be kind.

Patience wears thin, surely we could have at least bought under urgency enough vaccine to inoculate our frontline workers and healthcare personnel.

We can complain about others all we like but we seem to be once again be behind the 8 ball.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,698
A bit pissed so can you explain it in simpletons terms Sup42 Sup42 or are they drama queening.
The article is confusing, it is not you nor the beersies lol.

But basically, the reason they are positive on day eighteen, is that they caught it from a family member while in our either Isolation or in our quarantine.

We need more details.

That is the problem with the article. We need to know at what, if any point, the two people in this story were separated.

But clearly the positive on day eighteen tells us that they caught it from their relative some days into their stay in isolation or quarantine, because they were negative on arrival.

This is not a new threat, this is a known pattern of spread where someone is negative then later catches it, this is exactly why pre testing at the border has limitations.

They also do not mention the ages of the people in the story.

If say one was a parent and the other a child, then it would make sense that they were not separated during their stay.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,698
Not quite as simple as it is here Dave. The UK is a lot closer positionally and economically to it's nearest neighbours than what we are and relies more on road transport for imports/exports than shipping.

Remember the 3000 truckies stuck on the UK side of the border when europe went into lockdown a few days before xmas. The UK is nowhere near self sufficient.

Their culture is also very different in terms of space (we have it, they don't) With a population of 66m and a land mass slightly smaller than NZ there's always going to be a struggle with proximity.

We along with very few other countries are unique (Taiwan for example) being easily isolated and only relying on air and sea for imports/exports. Ports and airports are controllable especially with limited numbers.

Boris and Co haven't exactly been shining stars in this shitfest but the circumstances and the tyranny of distance are completely different.

One thing we can give them a tick for is their development and roll out of the vaccine. We still don't know when we will get the jab and our answer to everything is, trust us, hang tight and be kind.

Patience wears thin, surely we could have at least bought under urgency enough vaccine to inoculate our frontline workers and healthcare personnel.

We can complain about others all we like but we seem to be once again be behind the 8 ball.
All fair points.

However there are a lot of voices in the UK, locals who understand the logistics who called for border closure and still are.

A complex argument I have no doubt.
 
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Hardyman's Yugo

1st Grade Fringe
Jun 2, 2017
2,684
Lancashire, England
All fair points.

However there are a lot of voices in the UK, locals who understand the logistics who called for border closure and still are.

A complex argument I have no doubt.
We’ve been trading with Europe for so long, none of us are anywhere near self sufficient. I don’t know what the correct decision was, what we actually did in keeping borders open or a border lockdown. Not sure we’ll ever know I guess

Need to get a few more of these dished out so we can get back to normality

8E31F60F-F4FC-4F18-B6D4-4C7CD9F2B5BF.jpeg
 

Miket12

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 20, 2012
8,619

Covid 19 coronavirus: Earlier vaccination for border workers, Hipkins says​


New Zealand's 10,000 border workers with the highest risk of catching Covid could be vaccinated before the official start of the rollout in April, Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says.

Two of the four vaccines on order - Pfizer and Janssen - have begun the process for approval with Medsafe, the Weekend Herald has learned.

Hipkins said the plan was for border workers to get vaccinated within a fortnight of the first Pfizer batch of 200,000 courses arriving, which is estimated to be at the start of March.

"At this point we don't know exactly when it is going to be," Hipkins told the Weekend Herald.

"It could be three weeks from now or it could be the last week of March, but it is more likely to be the beginning of March from what I understand."

"Our goal is to have our border workers vaccinated within two weeks of them [the vaccines] arriving in the country and we are geared up and ready to do that."

Those workers were being tested weekly or fortnightly already and the vaccination would be built into the testing cycle.

"I am absolutely confident that the day they land, we will roll out the border worker vaccinations."

There was nothing slowing the country's ability to vaccinate border workers.

"They are absolutely number one and it will happen immediately as soon as the vaccines arrive."

Border workers are at the top of the NZ sequencing and rollout for a mass vaccination plan released in December – although the list is being refined, according to director general of health Dr Ashley Bloomfield.

But the more contagious strains of Covid spreading through Britain, Europe, the United States and South Africa have prompted calls by National and Act for greater urgency in bolstering the border. Another 18 cases were reported at the border yesterday over two days.

From today, all passengers from the US and Britain will require a pre-boarding Covid test and will be tested again as soon they arrive.

Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison last week announced a faster rollout of its first vaccine - also Pfizer. Approval is likely this month from the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) and the first vaccinations by the end of February.

Hipkins said that assumed Australia would actually be delivered the vaccine earlier and he said it was unfair to suggest Australia was moving quicker.

Asked if New Zealand would ask Pfizer for early delivery of a small number of courses for border workers from the first batch of 200,000 he said: "We are always talking to the pharmaceutical companies. Our people are always leaning on them to get delivery of any of the vaccines as quickly as we can."

Bloomfield said Medsafe was working "in lock-step" with its Australian counterpart and contact had been made again this past week with the TGA and the group rolling out the vaccine.

"We are confident that we are still very much in step with them. They way I think about is 'are we both on the same grid and in the same race' and very much so," he told the Weekend Herald.

The Pfizer application was most advanced but, for all four vaccines, there were dedicated teams assessing the information as it was made available.

Asked if the Pfizer approval could be sped up in line with Australia's timeline, he said: "The timelines are pretty pacey as it is…We are confident we are still very much working to a similar timetable as Australia in terms of our process of approving the vaccine and getting it onshore."

There was also a lot of effort keeping abreast of emerging information on the vaccines about safety and efficacy as they were being deployed elsewhere.

Bloomfield said as more information arrived, for example about the Pfizer rollout, Medsafe and TGA were sending a single set of questions through rather than different ones.

"Normally that response from the companies takes four months and with the last set of questions we've sent back, we have asked for a turnaround of a week.

"That is a tangible example of the pace and approach we are applying to every step in the process so we are in a position to have an approved vaccine, we are really confident around safety, we have the vaccine onshore and we are able to deliver it as soon as is the right time to do that."

Nikki Turner, the director of Auckland University's Immunisation Advisory Centre, said it would be appropriate to consider an early vaccine for border staff but the first problem would be availability when other countries had much bigger problems.

"They have healthcare providers dying, frontline staff dying, so that is where the priority lies, ethically, first.

"Ethically, other countries need it more than us at this point. If there was vaccine available, then yes, we could consider protecting those in New Zealand who are at highest risk."

But as well as vaccine supply, approval would be needed for that small group.

"It is do-able and appropriate because they are at higher risk. I do not think it is do-able and appropriate for the rest of the country because at the moment New Zealand is managing to contain Covid."

If the situation changed, New Zealand needed to be nimble enough to change its approach.

"But we shouldn't panic because on the other side, you've a community saying 'we want to know these vaccines are safe and effective'."

VACCINES Q and A

Who will get the Covid-19 vaccines in New Zealand and when?

Starting in April, top of the queue will be about 10,000 people working at the border, in managed isolation and quarantine, plus health workers with the highest risk of exposure the household contacts of both groups.

Who decides?
The broad-brush sequencing of the rollout was approved and announced in December by Jacinda Ardern although some refinement is being considered, according to the Ministry of Health, such as giving higher priority to older people. The second group will be high-risk frontline health workforce and high-risk frontline public sector and emergency services. The rollout for the general public is due to start in the second half of this year.

Will those priorities remain if there is a new community outbreak of Covid?
Largely, but if there is a limited outbreak in an area, the vaccine would be available for the population affected by the outbreak – assuming the vaccines had arrived in the country before an outbreak.

When are they due to arrive?
The first lot are scheduled to arrive in March, made by Pfizer-BioNtech, which is already being rolled out in the United States and Britain. The nine freezers in which they are stored at -70C have arrived and logistical planning is in train.

What has New Zealand ordered?
• Pfizer – BioNtech: 750,000 courses (ie 750,000 people getting two jabs each), first batch of 200,000 starting to arrive in March.
• Janssen: 5 million. The first two million to begin arriving in the second quarter of 2021, option of three million more to arrive throughout 2022. The only vaccine requiring just one injection.
• Oxford University - AstraZeneca: 3.8 million courses to start arriving in the second quarter.
• Novavax: 5.36 million courses to start arriving in the second quarter of 2021.

Why do we need enough for 15 million people when we have only five million people?
It allows for failure or delay in some of the orders, and enough to give to Pacific countries as well.

Who approves the vaccines and how long will it take?
Medsafe is a unit within the Ministry of Health and is responsible for the approval of medicines and vaccines. It works closely with its Australian counterpart, the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA). Pfizer is likely to be first, as early as this month in Australia, and not long after by New Zealand.

Is New Zealand fast-tracking its approval process?
Yes, in as much as processes which normally take months or years have been compressed. Regulators and pharmaceutical companies are acting with speed. Vaccines in the US and UK have been given regulatory approval for emergency use. Trials have shown them to be effective, but the trials have not been completed and more information is being gleaned through the rollout. New Zealand and Australia will make decisions on more advanced, though not complete, information. Approvals by Medsafe are likely to provisional because of the limited data, according to the Ministry of Health.

Have any vaccines started or finished the approval process?
Pfizer and Janssen have started.

Will any have to be approved as genetically modified organisms?
Auckland University's Immunisation Advisory Centre says the two viral vector vaccines, Janssen and AstraZenca, will require approval as GMO vaccines from the Environmental Protection Agency. But the EPA says it has received no application yet.

 
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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,698
Just off the top of my head we have a bunch of new more infectious strains from the UK, US, SA,
Brazil, and Nigeria.

These have all emerged roughly around the same time, which suggests that the rate of mutation is very consistent and stable (for now).

So that is a good thing, the predictability part of what seems to be happening, you give covid about a year and it comes up with more infectious types.
 
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Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,698
How do our Australian based forumers feel about the plan to hold the Australian open?

Seems insanely greedy with the new strain a know threat?
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,698

Covid 19 coronavirus: Earlier vaccination for border workers, Hipkins says​


New Zealand's 10,000 border workers with the highest risk of catching Covid could be vaccinated before the official start of the rollout in April, Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says.

Two of the four vaccines on order - Pfizer and Janssen - have begun the process for approval with Medsafe, the Weekend Herald has learned.

Hipkins said the plan was for border workers to get vaccinated within a fortnight of the first Pfizer batch of 200,000 courses arriving, which is estimated to be at the start of March.

"At this point we don't know exactly when it is going to be," Hipkins told the Weekend Herald.

"It could be three weeks from now or it could be the last week of March, but it is more likely to be the beginning of March from what I understand."

"Our goal is to have our border workers vaccinated within two weeks of them [the vaccines] arriving in the country and we are geared up and ready to do that."

Those workers were being tested weekly or fortnightly already and the vaccination would be built into the testing cycle.

"I am absolutely confident that the day they land, we will roll out the border worker vaccinations."

There was nothing slowing the country's ability to vaccinate border workers.

"They are absolutely number one and it will happen immediately as soon as the vaccines arrive."

Border workers are at the top of the NZ sequencing and rollout for a mass vaccination plan released in December – although the list is being refined, according to director general of health Dr Ashley Bloomfield.

But the more contagious strains of Covid spreading through Britain, Europe, the United States and South Africa have prompted calls by National and Act for greater urgency in bolstering the border. Another 18 cases were reported at the border yesterday over two days.

From today, all passengers from the US and Britain will require a pre-boarding Covid test and will be tested again as soon they arrive.

Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison last week announced a faster rollout of its first vaccine - also Pfizer. Approval is likely this month from the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) and the first vaccinations by the end of February.

Hipkins said that assumed Australia would actually be delivered the vaccine earlier and he said it was unfair to suggest Australia was moving quicker.

Asked if New Zealand would ask Pfizer for early delivery of a small number of courses for border workers from the first batch of 200,000 he said: "We are always talking to the pharmaceutical companies. Our people are always leaning on them to get delivery of any of the vaccines as quickly as we can."

Bloomfield said Medsafe was working "in lock-step" with its Australian counterpart and contact had been made again this past week with the TGA and the group rolling out the vaccine.

"We are confident that we are still very much in step with them. They way I think about is 'are we both on the same grid and in the same race' and very much so," he told the Weekend Herald.

The Pfizer application was most advanced but, for all four vaccines, there were dedicated teams assessing the information as it was made available.

Asked if the Pfizer approval could be sped up in line with Australia's timeline, he said: "The timelines are pretty pacey as it is…We are confident we are still very much working to a similar timetable as Australia in terms of our process of approving the vaccine and getting it onshore."

There was also a lot of effort keeping abreast of emerging information on the vaccines about safety and efficacy as they were being deployed elsewhere.

Bloomfield said as more information arrived, for example about the Pfizer rollout, Medsafe and TGA were sending a single set of questions through rather than different ones.

"Normally that response from the companies takes four months and with the last set of questions we've sent back, we have asked for a turnaround of a week.

"That is a tangible example of the pace and approach we are applying to every step in the process so we are in a position to have an approved vaccine, we are really confident around safety, we have the vaccine onshore and we are able to deliver it as soon as is the right time to do that."

Nikki Turner, the director of Auckland University's Immunisation Advisory Centre, said it would be appropriate to consider an early vaccine for border staff but the first problem would be availability when other countries had much bigger problems.

"They have healthcare providers dying, frontline staff dying, so that is where the priority lies, ethically, first.

"Ethically, other countries need it more than us at this point. If there was vaccine available, then yes, we could consider protecting those in New Zealand who are at highest risk."

But as well as vaccine supply, approval would be needed for that small group.

"It is do-able and appropriate because they are at higher risk. I do not think it is do-able and appropriate for the rest of the country because at the moment New Zealand is managing to contain Covid."

If the situation changed, New Zealand needed to be nimble enough to change its approach.

"But we shouldn't panic because on the other side, you've a community saying 'we want to know these vaccines are safe and effective'."

VACCINES Q and A

Who will get the Covid-19 vaccines in New Zealand and when?

Starting in April, top of the queue will be about 10,000 people working at the border, in managed isolation and quarantine, plus health workers with the highest risk of exposure the household contacts of both groups.

Who decides?
The broad-brush sequencing of the rollout was approved and announced in December by Jacinda Ardern although some refinement is being considered, according to the Ministry of Health, such as giving higher priority to older people. The second group will be high-risk frontline health workforce and high-risk frontline public sector and emergency services. The rollout for the general public is due to start in the second half of this year.

Will those priorities remain if there is a new community outbreak of Covid?
Largely, but if there is a limited outbreak in an area, the vaccine would be available for the population affected by the outbreak – assuming the vaccines had arrived in the country before an outbreak.

When are they due to arrive?
The first lot are scheduled to arrive in March, made by Pfizer-BioNtech, which is already being rolled out in the United States and Britain. The nine freezers in which they are stored at -70C have arrived and logistical planning is in train.

What has New Zealand ordered?
• Pfizer – BioNtech: 750,000 courses (ie 750,000 people getting two jabs each), first batch of 200,000 starting to arrive in March.
• Janssen: 5 million. The first two million to begin arriving in the second quarter of 2021, option of three million more to arrive throughout 2022. The only vaccine requiring just one injection.
• Oxford University - AstraZeneca: 3.8 million courses to start arriving in the second quarter.
• Novavax: 5.36 million courses to start arriving in the second quarter of 2021.

Why do we need enough for 15 million people when we have only five million people?
It allows for failure or delay in some of the orders, and enough to give to Pacific countries as well.

Who approves the vaccines and how long will it take?
Medsafe is a unit within the Ministry of Health and is responsible for the approval of medicines and vaccines. It works closely with its Australian counterpart, the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA). Pfizer is likely to be first, as early as this month in Australia, and not long after by New Zealand.

Is New Zealand fast-tracking its approval process?
Yes, in as much as processes which normally take months or years have been compressed. Regulators and pharmaceutical companies are acting with speed. Vaccines in the US and UK have been given regulatory approval for emergency use. Trials have shown them to be effective, but the trials have not been completed and more information is being gleaned through the rollout. New Zealand and Australia will make decisions on more advanced, though not complete, information. Approvals by Medsafe are likely to provisional because of the limited data, according to the Ministry of Health.

Have any vaccines started or finished the approval process?
Pfizer and Janssen have started.

Will any have to be approved as genetically modified organisms?
Auckland University's Immunisation Advisory Centre says the two viral vector vaccines, Janssen and AstraZenca, will require approval as GMO vaccines from the Environmental Protection Agency. But the EPA says it has received no application yet.

We have done extremely well here.

These are all good Vaccines, although Novavax and Jansen are a little behind the others in terms of trial and therefore data.

Astra Zeneca is slightly behind the PFizer biontec Vaccine for trial and data....however I am not worried about that Vaccine at all, the UK have put a lot of work into it and therefore it is proven safe and highly effective.

So bottom line, no one will miss out, or get a dud or cheap arse Vaccine.
 
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Miket12

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 20, 2012
8,619
So far six rich listers have avoided managed isolation and have been allowed to isolate at home. Five have been for “medical reasons” and one because of “extreme circumstances”. Can’t see whether it is the Ministry of Health or the Minister who has allowed it.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,698
So far six rich listers have avoided managed isolation and have been allowed to isolate at home. Five have been for “medical reasons” and one because of “extreme circumstances”. Can’t see whether it is the Ministry of Health or the Minister who has allowed it.
People have gone from Quarantine to Auckland hospital infectious.

There is no medical reason to let some rich prick dodge Isolation.
 

Sup42

Warriors 1st Grader
May 7, 2012
17,698
In the news today, operation warp speed has no reserves for the second does of the two dose vaccine.

They used it all. No chance of following the protocol.

I hope that is not true. That would be horrific.

In other news from planet America, the Biden administration are going to make the vaccine more widely available to people over 65.....

So the Trump lot used it all up without a dam care that it won't work.

And the Trump lot saw fit not to protect those most likely to die.


Sabotage.
 
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