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General Club Culture At The Warriors - Is There A Problem?

Discussion in 'Warriors Discussion' started by Raurimu Massive, Feb 18, 2013.

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  1. Raurimu Massive
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    Raurimu Massive 1st Grade Fringe



    Bro, just out of interest, do you think the coaching is to blame for that, or solely the players? It's not like these guys aren't physically capable, but it really sounds like they've been developed with the notion that talent is enough for them - hard yards and desperation just doesn't seem to be there with all the players. On the occasions where we've pulled out a blinding performance on defence and the line's moved up fast and coherently, we seem to have followed it up with yet another display of defence so slow it's like they're playing in porridge.

    It's almost as if success has always led a huge proportion of the players to believe they simply have to turn up to get the job done. And then they have the cheek to talk about the teams like the Storm and the Bulldogs with envy, like they have some sort of magic wand that it'd be just great to have. The only magic they have is the ability to do what the coach says, and to frigging well work their arses off to get it.

    The more I think on it, the more I think we just have fucking stupid players. Every year, we have one or two players who really decide to put in the effort - there's usually a news article saying how they've given up the piss, taking their diet seriously, putting in extra hours at training and studying the specifics of their position. And those players invariably have massive seasons, while so many others have average years at best, shot years at worst. How the hell do the rest of the squad not get inspired by guys like Mannering, Taylor and Matulino?

    How do we fix it? Leading by example doesn't seem to work, being dropped doesn't seem to work, getting embarrassed by incompetent performances doesn't seem to work, coaching doesn't seem to make too much difference, the desire to be winners doesn't seem to be enough... maybe for club development, we stop looking at these massive units who carve it up as youngsters, and look for the guys who are prepared to take the field against those man-mountain kids - cos it's them who have the ticker and the desire to play no matter what. Plenty of those big kids just seem play a sport like this cos they get to smash people without getting in trouble for it. Then when they're expected to actually work at the game they seem to switch off.

    We're constantly told "It's a matter of faith", but screw that - faith is just what's required to believe something when all evidence points against it. Last year tested me harder than any other year I've been a Warriors fan (even 2009) and I swear, if I see more of the same shit from the team this year, I'm damn near giving up on them. They don't deserve my money or support while they can't be fucked earning it.
     
  2. facefacts
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    facefacts 1st Grade Fringe


    The coaches over the years have had a lot to do with it, but i personally don't think it's their fault for the most part. It comes down to their status in the game, and what that status would allow them to do with the team they're coaching, particularly here at the Warriors... player power would and does win out at every club except the clubs with those three coaches i mention below, and because those coaches can get rid of, and recruit players as they see fit (no matter who they are) they will end up with the players they know can do the job.

    If we somehow got a coach of Bennetts caliber or Bellamy or even Hassler, they would be able to build the team they want, filled with the type of player they know can win competitions, pretty much without question just because of their status. We have plenty of players with a lot of talent but very average attitudes, or we have some average players with good attitudes but they are just not good enough, and when you get a few of these guys in the same squad it turns to shit, and we've had too many of these players over the years.

    2002 was a perfect example, that team wasn't the most talented Warriors team by a long way, but there was so many players in that team that were willing to play their guts out every week, so that attitude ended up becoming the norm within the team. Sure you need the talent to win games, but as the Storm have shown year after year, you only need two or three really talented players then surround them with guys that wont stop running or tackling or chasing or doing those 1 percenters that make a massive difference in a game.
     
  3. mt.wellington
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    mt.wellington Warriors Orange Peeler Contributor

    I thought our 2002 team was really talented!?!
     
  4. facefacts
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    facefacts 1st Grade Fringe


    It's funny how when a team plays like a real team, everybody looks good.
     
  5. fanrrior
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    fanrrior 1st Grade Fringe

    The Storm are a perfect example of that.
     
  6. eX | Machina
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    eX | Machina 1st Grade Fringe

    Yes the key word here is team. The Warriors haven't been able to bring balance to post 2003 groups of players to play consistently as the one unit! Cleary came the closest but he had the longest opportunity to do so. He also relied heavily on the motivated journey men which somewhat worked for him but as we all know created other shortcomings heavily debated for the duration of his appointment. I' believe that bring back the giant forward pack that steam rolls over the top and nullifies the oppositions backs is what the Warriors are lacking! Let the forwards win the games. Its tried, tested and it works. If your not convinced, look at the Sharks pack they will literary be impossible to stop in the forwards this year!
     
  7. KPWarrior
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    KPWarrior 1st Grade Fringe

    Some very valid points in there and they've been apparent for most of our existence, kinda goes hand in hand with the other theory of why some of our players seem to excel at other clubs after they leave the Warriors, so I wouldn't say It's because our players are just stupid, but there does appear to be something inherently present at the club that prevents us from realising our full potential.

    We have a reputation for our talent, flair, unpredictability and entertainment value, and how we're always a tough opponent but I'd gladly give all that up for a consistent, structured, disciplined, grinding, boring style of game based on completing sets and making tackles, that's what wins Prem's in this comp! I dunno, maybe it's time we realised that we're an Aus' NRL franchise based in NZ and not a development club for every young NZ up & comer that wins an U20's comp, and our No.1 goal is to win an NRL Premiership and maybe it's ok to have a team made up of 70-80% Aussies with only the best of the best young Kiwi juniors given the chance when they're proven ready! Probably won't go down too well but if we're going to sit back and envy teams like the Storm, then it might be time we took a leaf out of their book, they've developed nothing in their entire existence, they've had 1 local Victorian junior that I can recall who only made his FG debut in 2011 (2012?) and I can't even remember his name because he never played again, I think they may have a couple more now playing for feeder clubs in the QLD/NSW Cup's, but their chances of playing FG for the Storm are pretty much zero!

    Our juniors seem to be coming through with nothing to live up to and nothing to aspire to except Harlem Globe Trotter style footy - must throw a miracle ball off every half chance bs - no look passes that go nowhere but look spectacular when it comes off, so it must have been planned, even Manu's try in the trial on the weekend - I must admit I've watched it about 20 times - looked absolutely sublime, nothing short of sheer brilliance from SJ and Manu, but it came from nothing, It didn't come from any sustained pressure with players hitting the line at pace, in fact we looked to be going backwards before SJ came up with the miracle play, it's fair to say a Premiership is nowhere near our grasp with that style of play!
     
  8. smac19
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    smac19 NSW Cup Player

    its the bro mentality if u ask me...eveyrones swt as cuzz its all good if u cant catch a ball
    dont see a mentally tough group of players...what players would make it as a doggie or storm player..maybe just Matulino

    think we get caught up in the size and so called flair our players have- aint seenany of that on a consistant basis
    this weeks game should be a good testz where we at...corey norman to score 2 tries
     
  9. facefacts
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    facefacts 1st Grade Fringe


    Yeah good summary KP....until lazy play, lackluster attitudes, constant errors, stupid decision making, and maybe most importantly consistently poor defense is considered unacceptable by the players themselves, the Warriors will always be a wildly inconsistent team, and the only culture we'll be known for is a back slapping she'll be sweet, bro culture.
     
  10. facefacts
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    facefacts 1st Grade Fringe


    Beat me to it....i spent a few minutes thinking whether i should call it a bro culture, but i think thats exactly what it is, and it doesn't work.
     
  11. smac19
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    smac19 NSW Cup Player

    oh nah but our players got the best sleeve tatoos and beefed up size...sick of seeing that sh*t
    let us as stated earlier..complete sets,build pressure and have some set play moves
    i think we just play stupid dumb some times......pray they prove me wrong but on display sat the standing around in a huddle around the play the ball area....not a good look in the organizing dept
     
  12. Raurimu Massive
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    Raurimu Massive 1st Grade Fringe

    That whole bro culture can damn near be tracked down to a specific season - correct me if I'm wrong, but was it 2003 where the advertising campaign was basically just clips of the boys pissing about in practice with huge foo-nah baro grins on their faces, doing anything but league training - making a point of how wonderful it was that 'polyflair' was the underlying attitude in the team?

    Since then, it's basically been a case of that attitude defining us in combination with 'big islanders who smash'. It's as if the club went out of their way to make the players dumb in their approach to league, and far too much of the public have lapped that shit up instead of insisting on a team that plays winning league. And it's not like winning league is a secret formula.
     
  13. smac19
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    smac19 NSW Cup Player

    ^so true...elliott looks like he wants one big happy whanau...just imagine if a paul gallen or greg bird was in our team....fark the boys wouldnt know what hit em with that attitude

    hope they drop that kava crap too...maybe thats makin em dumb..numbs the tongue and the brain:)
     
  14. Akkerz
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    Akkerz 1st Grade Fringe

    KPWarrior put it exactly right. This is an Aus NRL competition with Warriors as one of the competing teams. Being from NZ is purely incidental.
    Look at the consistantly achieving clubs. There's no such thing as parochial loyalty. The best player gets the contract, no matter where they hail from and unless Warriors start recruiting on that basis we will always be mediocre.
    The old hands on the field and in the office are looking too complacent. The lazy 'so what' attitude has become ingrained. imo the club has not done enough to stop the rot.
    NZ is simply too small to ever produce the number of top quality calibre players that the club needs to flourish long term so also imo overseas recruitment is inevitable for success.
     
  15. mt.wellington
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    mt.wellington Warriors Orange Peeler Contributor

    Thing is not only trying to get them here, which is the biggest hurdle, but also trying to keep them here. Maloney's the latest example. Was offered big money apparently but he just wanted to go back home. Dont think Thurston would come here even if we offered him $1.3 million...
     
  16. Akkerz
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    Akkerz 1st Grade Fringe

    Maybe the team / club slack attitude is the reason some won't cross the creek MtW. But I'm sure there are others who would IF OFFERED THE OPPORTUNITY. Maloney was here for a few years before the call of the Kookaburru got to him.
     
  17. facefacts
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    facefacts 1st Grade Fringe


    Thats the problem though, it wouldn't matter if Gallen or Bird were in the team, because the over riding culture in the club would still be the same. Until the overwhelming number of players in the squad are of a high professional standard, nothing will change.

    I know melbourne gets harped on about, but they are the benchmark of how a team should be run....theres no buddy buddy shit there, you do your job, you make your tackles or you're gone. Everyone in that team knows exactly where they should be and what they should be doing on every play, and they do it.
     
  18. mt.wellington
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    mt.wellington Warriors Orange Peeler Contributor

    Very insightful answers from Dane Nielsen in regards to the root of the Storms success...

    The amazing Storm fullback Billy Slater, tell us about him.
    People talk about his speed and footwork, etc, but it's his will to win that stands out to me. I've never met anyone so competitive. Bill still works on things before training and he's always one of the last to leave. The heights he has reached, and yet he still thrives on getting better and helping the players around him. He's also a really good lad off the field. With a lot of players, it goes to the head, but his feet are always on the ground.

    What's the magic formula of the Storm's legendary coach Craig Bellamy?
    His ability to get the best out of everyone. I really respect the way he gave me so much one-on-one time when I first got there. A lot of it was about my defence. I learned as much in three months as I did in three years at Cronulla. The players helped as well - everyone was willing to help each other and no one was above anyone else.

    The Storm were stripped of their 2009 crown ... do you still regard yourself as having won the title that year?
    They can say what they want but I've played in two grand finals and won two and no one can take that away from me. We were on top of the world one minute and then at the lowest of the low. It was a really bad time and we stuck together, and came out the other side.

    Link has been hidden. Please Register to view.
     
  19. facefacts
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    facefacts 1st Grade Fringe


    Yeah they're a top notch outfit, and it sounds like training is run like a well oiled machine, everyone knowing what each other is supposed to do....we can only watch on and hope for something similar.

    They may be equals leading up to games, but once they cross that white line, the team will know exactly who the bosses are out there.:)
     
  20. mrblonde
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    mrblonde 1st Grade Fringe

    I frankly think one of the problems is the senior players. Someone's got to get in their faces and tell them it's quite normal to yell and swear when your teammate drops the ball, knocks on, whatever. Or does a slow/lazy play the ball/hit up/pass. That's a basic part of their job! And it's part of a senior player's job to get on the case of any player who screws up - as well as owning up when it's your mistake. It doesn't mean you're not friends anymore, it's not personal, it's professional.

    I call as Exhibit A the general lack of noise when the team have been scored against. I don't expect punches, fingers etc, but I do expect a bit of agression, some player or players saying what want wrong was...You came in too early/too late...Their fullback's kicking early, watch it...etc etc Manu don't drift in...yada yada.

    A long winded way of saying Make Some Noise...

    They aren't 17 mates out there on the field, they're 17 team mates.
     
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