General Christchurch Shooting

DO NOT POST VIDEO TO THE MASSACRE OR LINKS TO IT

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Sup42

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They are goners, nothing surer. Jacinda has another term out of this unless she really stuffs up.

No I haven't, I couldn't bear to watch it, and I have seen some real life gore in my time. I have trouble with the German shite as well but because it was so long ago it seems to be less intense.

In any case I don't watch the docos for that, but for the extra snippets of information that keep coming out. History was my best subject at school, and the causes of WWII were a major part of the curriculum. For all that, and all these years later I am still trying to get my head around it.

It is a bit like Gallipoli which is celebrated down here yet in reality was an unjustified invasion of a sovereign country with which Australia and NZ had no quarrel at all. The Turks killed a lot of Anzacs, but they were just defending their country from invaders.

Getting back to the point, the more we look at the past the better chance we have for the future. It seems that history will blame this in major part to our quite weak gun laws.

I just have this feeling that censoring this sort of stuff can have repercussions, such as if the gun lobby, who are masters at manipulation manage to somehow water down the effect of this massacre.
It humbles me how welcome we are at Gallipoli now, and how the Turks honour our dead by hosting ceremony and tending the graves. As you rightly point out, these are invaders who were killed their own on Turkish soil. They have Mana those people, real honor,

Like you I'm a history buff. I get the feeling that Jacinda Adern realises that she is being asked to make history here, to make her mark on our country. I also get the feeling that she is a human being first and a politician second. When Bridges uses phrases like "Probably the way to go" about semi Automatic weapons, his syntax tells me that he is trying to ensure that as an opposition leader that he will make up his own mind . . .ergo the deliberately semi committal weak language. Now some will mistakenly see that as the role of an opposition government, to offer a tempered view point.
Not when fifty New Zealand citizens were murdered in church on our soil mates.



The direction Bridges should be taking, purely from a mood of the nation pov is to be even stronger than Jacinda on this, and to bring out the big stick of conservative thinking.

He is not looking at the bigger picture by trying to be a point of difference in the debate. While I get why he is trying to show individualism and another angle, this is not the time to use a different rhetoric to the leader.

There are seven thousand owners of Semi Autos. These are not voters Bridges needs. Of course he will be thinking of the farming and wider hunting communities when it comes to gun owners in a broader sense, more votes in other words. But hey Mr Bridges, consider that some of the semi Auto owners are voluntarily handing their guns in, they are disgusted with this whole thing.

Unfortunately for him his two stance logic "I will support any changes" versus "Probably the way to go" shows a weakness that his opponent doesn't suffer.

As for your comments about the Nazi stuff, the footage that springs to mind for me is that Vietnam video of a man being executed at point blank range in full view of the cameras.

The only reason that got shown world wide over and over was because he was Asian.

Images of naked dead American soldiers in Mogadishu were eventually faded out because of their sensitivity.

The way the Govt are going these latest videos of a group of people getting slaughtered that Westerners have less sympathies for I applaud (I hold my own hand up here, I don't know for example whether I would react the same if it was Maori, Pakehas, Islanders, Asians in the video in other words people im more exposed to). I do have Muslim friends but the exposure time is less than other groups I'm more used to mingling with . . . people that are more deeply imbeded in my psyche.
 
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44 year old business man appears in court for distributing the footage.

He is the director of a company which is also under scrutiny for having a Nazi sign as its logo - the same symbol featured in a manifesto by the alleged shooter.

The company, Beneficial Insulation, has a sun wheel as its company logo. It is a symbol employed in a post-Third Reich context by neo-Nazis.

They got Al Capone for tax evasion
 
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bruce

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As for your comments about the Nazi stuff, the footage that springs to mind for me is that Vietnam video of a man being executed at point blank range in full view of the cameras.

The only reason that got shown world wide over and over was because he was Asian.
I can pull rank here on age.

The Vietnam war was a public relations disaster because the press were showing young American soldiers being killed in prime time. It was also one of the saddest conflicts in modern history because it was so senseless yet complicated.

That Police Chief knew the Viet Cong prisoner had just murdered a Vietnamese Army Officer, his wife and kids and his elderly mother by slitting their throats. Shit happens in war, and it made TV.

The Vietnam war was caused by the French because they had their arses kicked by Germany, then grovelled to them with the Vichy government, got their arses kicked again at Vientiane by the Thais and then finally by the North Vietnamese at Diem Bien Phu.

The US could have helped the Vietnamese get independence from the French after WWI, but they ignored the plea for help. So they went to the Communists for help, and got it. The French used their influence in Europe to drag the US into Vietnam, and the rest is sad history.

So the only difference with the Black Hawk down episode was that is was another cockup by the Americans and the sight of US servicemen being desecrated was judged as bit raw for prime time. That bit I can understand but it is still censorship, History is history, news is news.

BTW and slightly off topic. Can somebody please tell me why this is news? Just asking like.
40335
 
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BTW and slightly off topic. Can somebody please tell me why this is news? Just asking like.
View attachment 40335
pretty simply really. They posted that pic to showcase the athleticism of the woman's game. It got trolled with inappropriate comments. Instead of deleting the offending comments and making a stand they instead removed the picture.
 
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pretty simply really. They posted that pic to showcase the athleticism of the woman's game. It got trolled with inappropriate comments. Instead of deleting the offending comments and making a stand they instead removed the picture.
Would that have happened in NZ?
 
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So we have this unprecedented move by NZ gangs to act as security outside Mosques and cemeteries.

The Muslim community we are told are in support of this move ( cue irony re offers you cant refuse).

On one level consider that a declaration of war against the offender, because that is what it is ( the offender was never going to general population anyway, will likely get CC permanent cell confinement (doesnt stop prison staff from taking the offender say to the gym once a week as a reward for good behavior).

There is a risk in, areas where white power gangs predominate that say gangs like the mobs presence incites a clash.

The police arent thrilled but they're not opposing it.

Sparing a thought for prison staff, it would be best to house this individual in a predominantly white prison. Personally I wish we could send them to military prison where there is SAS representation in the prison leadership ( Ardmore for example was SAS run and you have SAS HQ at papakura).

It's been done before with French agents being guarded by our SF. Much harder being in a Millitary prison than the public service.

I guess to me anyway, it makes sense not to expose corrections staff to an individual that has an active hit on them from every major gang in the country.

Inmate behavior as you can imagine is effected by having someone like this housed with them.

This person will get Pd preventative detention ( along the lines of 17 + years with no parole).
 
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i just heard on the rwdio news the turkish pm threatened anyone who came to turkey with hate for muslems , will be going home in a coffin. this is because of the shooter in Chch.
hes already backtracking and i dont have a direct quote, but its an example of how acts like this will be used to justify further acts by governments and individuals going forward.
 
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i just heard on the rwdio news the turkish pm threatened anyone who came to turkey with hate for muslems , will be going home in a coffin. this is because of the shooter in Chch.
hes already backtracking and i dont have a direct quote, but its an example of how acts like this will be used to justify further acts by governments and individuals going forward.
He threatened the Turkish pm aye, among other world leaders.

It's a stupid thing to say even though many will agree with the sentiment, its their country and all that.

Be interested to see the arrests they make in Turkey in the coming days.
 
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Gee I just came across a video that features prominently on the website of the guardian (BTW Jacinda is a rock star on their web page no joke, she has a JFK style presence there).

The Video I am referring to plays a montage like a rap battle, between Jacinda at the United Nations versus Donald Trump.

She makes Trump look like an idiot (these are sound bites cut and sliced to show the contrasting rhetoric).

She is a media darling outside these two wee islands of ours.
 
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Gee I just came across a video that features prominently on the website of the guardian (BTW Jacinda is a rock star on their web page no joke, she has a JFK style presence there).

The Video I am referring to plays a montage like a rap battle, between Jacinda at the United Nations versus Donald Trump.

She makes Trump look like an idiot (these are sound bites cut and sliced to show the contrasting rhetoric).

She is a media darling outside these two wee islands of ours.
rhetoric is her strong suit.

In this instance she has followed up with action.

The fact that the government will be making major policy changes regarding gun control a matter of days after this event will make the USA in particular take notice. I don't think they have gone far enough with these laws and this is unfortunately the opportune time to get this locked in.
 
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rhetoric is her strong suit.

In this instance she has followed up with action.

The fact that the government will be making major policy changes regarding gun control a matter of days after this event will make the USA in particular take notice. I don't think they have gone far enough with these laws and this is unfortunately the opportune time to get this locked in.
Can't argue with any of that.

I'm a Jacinda fan on the basis that she is well meaning (important in a environment that attracts psychopaths).

The things I don't like is that she can come across as school marmish.

She uses phrases like "Clearly" in the same fashion SK says "Ya know".

But she got this one right. Great speech writer. Excellent tactical manouvering in a terrorism age (which frankly my selfish sense of self preservation of me and my kids is all I give a shit about in my core of core out of this stuff on a feral animal level).

Aesthetically its a good save of my countries image, she had managed to temper the level of shame and blame NZ'ders were at risk of being tarred with by this terrorist.

The thinking brain is disgusted by whats happened and strongly in support if NZ's Muslim community.
 
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Can't argue with any of that.

I'm a Jacinda fan on the basis that she is well meaning (important in a environment that attracts psychopaths).

The things I don't like is that she can come across as school marmish.

She uses phrases like "Clearly" in the same fashion SK says "Ya know".

But she got this one right. Great speech writer. Excellent tactical manouvering in a terrorism age (which frankly my selfish sense of self preservation of me and my kids is all I give a shit about in my core of core out of this stuff on a feral animal level).

Aesthetically its a good save of my countries image, she had managed to temper the level of shame and blame NZ'ders were at risk of being tarred with by this terrorist.
The response from her and the country to this tragedy has been impressive and as close to perfect given the circumstances as you probably could get. I think the rest of the world has to take notice. They now have a very good 'how to guide'
 
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She makes Trump look like an idiot (these are sound bites cut and sliced to show the contrasting rhetoric).
That's not hard to do.
She is a media darling outside these two wee islands of ours.
Why isn't she well liked there? From outside she's doing a freaking awesome job!
 
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That's not hard to do.

Why isn't she well liked there? From outside she's doing a freaking awesome job!
Ashamed to say it but she is a woman (not my personal view I was a fan of Maggie Thatchers international iron lady stance to the cold war and the Argies, I know she was a horrror for the majority of the UK's citizens, I don't support that part). But yeah as a vibrant young female she was never going to be palatable in NZ's beer Rugby and Racing male culture.

I know lots of people will try to dispute that. Good on you I say in advance, you musn't be capable of imagining were Adern an articulate, charismatic, world shaking young male . . . were she that type of male statesman you would see her differently.

When Mick Ennis said during a Warriors call how lucky NZ was to have such a strong leader, it really reminds you of how the world sees the picture outside our fish bowl.

He's hardly a academic type is he, but she moved people like him in the way we celebrate the same type of global influence by our greatest statesmen.
 
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Why isn't she well liked there? From outside she's doing a freaking awesome job!
Disclaimer - political novice here...with little more than a passing interest to be honest...

She has inherited the mess of a lot of under-funding to crucial sectors. I'm pleased that she has come out well here, because she has been in a lot of no-win situations that the opposition were scoring a lot of easy points from. Opponents would say that the public sector is bullying Labour because they are weak (especially in regard to unions), supporters might say that the public sector is at crisis point and has to dig in, meaning Labour is in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also, Labour isn't known for having a coherent future plan since it has become more centre than left.

I'm an Ardern fan because she is so genuine. I don't feel like her values are compromised by her position. We see that change over time with many politicians, so it will be interesting to see her development. She will only be as competent as the team around her though.

I see huge value in the global profile she can give us, which might offset some of the cost to business that is traditional with a Labour government. She can brand New Zealanders in such a way that we are sought after personally and for niche industry, that we are attractive for tourism, and most importantly to me, that we can use our small, but functional existence as a proving ground for innovative social and industrial change on a global scale. And not through political point scoring, but by showing off the country as who we are working to be.

Personally though I will always align with those that give the powerless a voice, and those who are struggling a pathway out of the fog if they are willing to work for it.
 
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When Mick Ennis said during a Warriors call how lucky NZ was to have such a strong leader, it really reminds you of how the world sees the picture outside our fish bowl.

He's hardly a academic type is he, but she moved people like him in the way we celebrate the same type of global influence by our greatest statesmen.
David Lange was also a very shallow type of guy, absolutely outstanding with rhetoric and quips and was a rock star on the world stage, but many who knew him regarded him as a total dickhead.

Jacinda I regard as lightweight but she has put on a really good show over this, and has come across as very genuine, so good on her, but I still think she is a lightweight.

Do I need to mention Norman Kirk? He was also a leader on the world stage for dragging our troops out of Vietnam, but otherwise a genuine strange bastard who along with Muldoon gave the rise of the need to drop FPP elections.

The common thread, all Labour Prime Ministers.

I left out Helen Clark, because she was no dickhead, nor lightweight, but a very cheap politician, but they all are.
 
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She has inherited the mess of a lot of under-funding to crucial sectors. I'm pleased that she has come out well here, because she has been in a lot of no-win situations that the opposition were scoring a lot of easy points from. Opponents would say that the public sector is bullying Labour because they are weak (especially in regard to unions), supporters might say that the public sector is at crisis point and has to dig in, meaning Labour is in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also, Labour isn't known for having a coherent future plan since it has become more centre than left.

I'm an Ardern fan because she is so genuine. I don't feel like her values are compromised by her position. We see that change over time with many politicians, so it will be interesting to see her development. She will only be as competent as the team around her though.

I see huge value in the global profile she can give us, which might offset some of the cost to business that is traditional with a Labour government. She can brand New Zealanders in such a way that we are sought after personally and for niche industry, that we are attractive for tourism, and most importantly to me, that we can use our small, but functional existence as a proving ground for innovative social and industrial change on a global scale.

Personally though I will always align with those that give the powerless a voice, and those who are struggling a pathway out of the fog if they are willing to work for it.
It was so very important that government gave the Nurses a vote of confidence.
I know that industry very well with thirty years association with what has happened in NZ nursing.

National bullied the Nurses to a degree where they did almost irreparable damage to NZ health care system, standards have dropped, that in real terms means deaths for patients. NZ Pakeha no longer proliferate the Nursing population in Auckland, I take an inmate to an Auckland hospital in the last decade and they complain "Where are the kiwi nurses?".

The DHB has a cynical yet not publicly admitted to policy of hiring people from countries where their nurses will not argue against wrongs in the health care system. People from countries that will accept poor working conditions, poor wages, and managerial bullying.

People from Asia, especially India and China, this is not a rant against them, they come here with different values which our DHBs are exploiting. Pakeha Nurses Ive talked to speak of a yes men culture.

That's farkn scary, because Ive worked along side many of these people, and had to act as a translator, and advocate between health care staff that have a different culture around life and death than most Kiwis assume they will encounter in health care.

What I am saying is backed up by representitaves from the NZ Nursing council. So what you say about the public service is absolutely bloody right, Labour inherited a pig.
 
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