General Auckland Waterfront Stadium

Miket12

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 20, 2012
9,471
Excuse me, since when were Phil Goff and the Treasury experts in infrastructure? WTF cares what Phil Goff thinks?


The Manukau??? WTF???
Firth of Thames??? WTF???

Sounds like some of these guys are having their strings pulled by somebody with no interest in the good of the country.
Bruce, it’s a case of follow the money by looking at those people appointed to the UNISCS Taskforce and their report was never going to be anything other than supportive of moving the port from Auckland to NorthPort. The Chairman Wayne Brown is a former Far North Mayor and NZ First strategist who wrote their transport policy advocating moving the port, another is the current chairman of KiwiRail, another was the former head of TranzRail, and another is a lobbyist for a group Auckland Harbour Protections.

With a group assembled including rail advocates, a NorthPort advocate and a let’s get the Port out of Auckland advocate, of course they were always going to recommend moving the port and moving freight by rail.

Same if you put Cullen in charge of a Tax Reform Group and, surprise, surprise, it recommends a CGT.

Or get a group of international experts in mining recovery who are supported by the families of dead miners and who happen to run a business which specialises in Mining Recovery and, surprise, surprise, they recommend spending millions more tax payer money at the Pike River Mine.

It’s long been a ploy used by all political parties when in government and at local body level: decide on the result you want, organise a taskforce full of people who will give you the result you want, give them a terms of reference so they will give you the result you want, pay them to consult and write the report.... and, surprise, surprise, receive a report giving you your desired outcome. If, by some miracle, the taskforce doesn’t recommend your desired result, reject their report and start again with a new group of people until a report is finally released which recommends whatever your desired outcome was In the first place.
 
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Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,965
So you have regional interests, political interests, shipping interests, environmental interests, road transport interests, cultural interests, planning interests, real estate interests, all pushing against each other.

Does Auckland have a rail link to the port? if so why not train the coal, for a start out.
 
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Miket12

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 20, 2012
9,471
So you have regional interests, political interests, shipping interests, environmental interests, road transport interests, cultural interests, planning interests, real estate interests, all pushing against each other.

Does Auckland have a rail link to the port? if so why not train the coal, for a start out.
No, there's not. There is a small rail head within a few hundred metres of the port but Auckland's main rail freight yard is located in Onehunga. It's around 15 km's from the Port.
 
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Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
4,965
No, there's not. There is a small rail head within a few hundred metres of the port but Auckland's main rail freight yard is located in Onehunga. It's around 15 km's from the Port.

So we have what is often thought of as the main NZ Port and it doesn't have rail. Personally I cannot see how a modern container port can operate without rail. Why can't the coal and containers be unloaded in Tauranga and railed from there. Ports like Northport and Napier can do overload.
 
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john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
2,372
tauranga
So we have what is often thought of as the main NZ Port and it doesn't have rail. Personally I cannot see how a modern container port can operate without rail. Why can't the coal and containers be unloaded in Tauranga and railed from there. Ports like Northport and Napier can do overload.
Not sure of the reason but I know Genesis used to import coal thru Tauranga .Quite a few years ago now & it had something to do with the overseas coal was of a higher grade.Guess to do with the environment
 
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bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
16,702
The Chairman Wayne Brown is a former Far North Mayor and NZ First strategist who wrote their transport policy advocating moving the port, another is the current chairman of KiwiRail, another was the former head of TranzRail, and another is a lobbyist for a group Auckland Harbour Protections.
I have known Wayne Brown for 40 years. Yes he is from Kerikeri, he had an engineering consultancy there.

Yes he was with NZ First, believe it or not they were not all dipsticks, although most were.

However, and if I recall correctly he was Chair of the Auckland Health Board as well. So he is not some Ngapuhi hick.

Having said that he moved the Northland Council operations to Kerikeri from Kaikohe, which was controversial because it disadvantaged many rural Maori living on the western side of the Hokianga from their jobs and left Kaikohe, once a thriving commercial and rail hub to rot even further.

Brown aside the way I see it is what they want is a deep water port, suitable for expansion, away from Quay Street in Auckland. That appears to be Northport.

So they mention Manukau. I can just imagine the Ever Given getting stuck there. Apart from the entrance that harbour is full of moving shallows.

The Firth of Thames? Why has nobody thought of that before? Because it isn't a deep water port that is why.

Tauranga? Is it big enough to expand? Probably not. I haven't been there for years but I doubt they have the land they have at Ruakaka behind Northport. The only advantage I can see there is that it is a major exporter of containers.

I am not close to the action, but Goff has always been a dipstick.

The arguments against Northport seem petty and contrived. Sure it is not going to be easy, or cheap to move to Northport, but FFS the Manukau and the Firth of Thames. Heyzeuss spare me!!!

Methinks something else is working behind the scenes here, and it hasn't got the best interests of the country in mind.
 

john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
2,372
tauranga
I have known Wayne Brown for 40 years. Yes he is from Kerikeri, he had an engineering consultancy there.

Yes he was with NZ First, believe it or not they were not all dipsticks, although most were.

However, and if I recall correctly he was Chair of the Auckland Health Board as well. So he is not some Ngapuhi hick.

Having said that he moved the Northland Council operations to Kerikeri from Kaikohe, which was controversial because it disadvantaged many rural Maori living on the western side of the Hokianga from their jobs and left Kaikohe, once a thriving commercial and rail hub to rot even further.

Brown aside the way I see it is what they want is a deep water port, suitable for expansion, away from Quay Street in Auckland. That appears to be Northport.

So they mention Manukau. I can just imagine the Ever Given getting stuck there. Apart from the entrance that harbour is full of moving shallows.

The Firth of Thames? Why has nobody thought of that before? Because it isn't a deep water port that is why.

Tauranga? Is it big enough to expand? Probably not. I haven't been there for years but I doubt they have the land they have at Ruakaka behind Northport. The only advantage I can see there is that it is a major exporter of containers.

I am not close to the action, but Goff has always been a dipstick.

The arguments against Northport seem petty and contrived. Sure it is not going to be easy, or cheap to move to Northport, but FFS the Manukau and the Firth of Thames. Heyzeuss spare me!!!

Methinks something else is working behind the scenes here, and it hasn't got the best interests of the country in mind.
Biggest concern is that 75% of cargo arriving in Auckland is bound for Auckland and surrounding areas. Any movement will have a great affect on our roads
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
16,702
Biggest concern is that 75% of cargo arriving in Auckland is bound for Auckland and surrounding areas. Any movement will have a great affect on our roads
Yes, so why take it from Quay Street. Northport is just past the edge of the Auckland Regional boundary at Mangawhai. So it is actually no further than Tauranga.

My guess is that somebody wants to keep things the way they are for short term profit.

Whatever option is going to cost a lot of money.
 

john nick

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 28, 2020
2,372
tauranga
Yes, so why take it from Quay Street. Northport is just past the edge of the Auckland Regional boundary at Mangawhai. So it is actually no further than Tauranga.

My guess is that somebody wants to keep things the way they are for short term profit.

Whatever option is going to cost a lot of money.
Yeah Brucey boy. A lot of personal agendas involved in this situation
 
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Miket12

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 20, 2012
9,471

Opinion: Garth Falconer: Mending bridges with an alternative Waitematā crossing​


E203B1CD-132D-45C2-AAFF-2D3DBA34D358.jpeg


A new standalone bridge to the west, pictured right, of the existing Auckland Harbour Bridge could meet the existing and future needs of the city. Illustration / Reset Urban Design

By Garth Falconer

As the design team leader of the SkyPath project and originator of the SeaPath, I've researched the costs and benefits of the various alternative harbour crossings over 10 years.

The most feasible and cost-effective solution is simply to build a new bridge.

Rather than locations east of the Auckland Harbour Bridge, I suggest that a new bridge would be best extending on the western side for northward traffic, keeping well away from Wynyard Quarter, whilst retaining the Auckland Harbour Bridge for southward traffic giving the two eastern lanes 7m wide for walking, cycling and lookouts (adding wind and rain protection) continuing seaward all the way to Esmond Rd.

Going on recent examples, such as the 2.5km long Gordie Howe bridge in Detroit due to be finished in 2024, the cost of a new bridge will be significantly less than the tandem currently being concocted, and it would be a more worthwhile addition to the Waitematā.

Since picking up the Labour Government's pledge to build the popularly backed Skypath/Seapath,the smart lightweight composite design that had been thoroughly peer reviewed, costed at $50m and achieved resource consent in 2016, the NZTA has embarked upon a strange odyssey with its delivery.

Four years later, the plans for Seapath now follow a convoluted inland route at $250m, and, in the place of SkyPath, we have a new concept visualisation design of a standalone boxy-looking steel bridge for pedestrians and cyclists, with an estimated cost of $685m and very little else.

Little wonder organised storming of the Auckland Harbour Bridge by cyclists and walkers is back in the news, creating all sorts of divisive controversy.

To future-proof and provide a backup crossing, the NZTA earlier ambitiously proposed a tunnel under the Waitematā. This would be a massive project, somehow entering through the regenerating Wynyard Quarter and daylighting somewhere around Esmond Rd to then merge with traffic coming off the Auckland Harbour Bridge which would be retained.

Back in 2012, the cost estimate for the tunnel crossing was $4 to $5 billion. Last heard, that had spiralled upwards to $10 billion.

A new state-of-the-art bridge would head westwards from Pt Erin/Westhaven, stepping across Curran St and the reef, then beginning to curve before Watchman Island and sweeping out to acknowledge the channel before hooking back into the stem of Northcote Pt, with a short 250m surgically inserted tunnel through to the east to emerge seamlessly into the northern motorway past Sulphur Beach.

As it would be longer than the Auckland Harbour Bridge the gradient would be less of a climb. Passage for trams, walkers and cyclists could be alongside or perhaps sheltered better beneath.

The actual form of the bridge could be quite simple, the curved form with a series of long legs would be restrained and elegant enough to fit the outstanding surroundings.

A good example of such a curving bridge is the pre-stressed concrete and steel girder Coronado Bridge in San Diego, which is five lanes wide and high enough at 61m to allow the US Navy Pacific Fleet to pass under.

As to figuring what NZTA's endgame of all of this is, my guess is that if we accept the new pedestrian bridge, then the ground will be cleared for the underwater tunnel to get the green light.

Do the taxpayers want to be saddled with a $10 billion invoice?

Perhaps now, with all the public stress around on how best to cross the harbour, the time has come for this to be reviewed and something more fitting proposed for crossing the uniquely lyrical coastline and central water body we call the Waitematā.

• Garth Falconer is an urban designer, director of Reset Urban Design and author of Living in Paradox:a history of urban design across kaianga, towns and cities in New Zealand.

 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
3,642
Tauranga

Opinion: Garth Falconer: Mending bridges with an alternative Waitematā crossing​


View attachment 44423

A new standalone bridge to the west, pictured right, of the existing Auckland Harbour Bridge could meet the existing and future needs of the city. Illustration / Reset Urban Design

By Garth Falconer

As the design team leader of the SkyPath project and originator of the SeaPath, I've researched the costs and benefits of the various alternative harbour crossings over 10 years.

The most feasible and cost-effective solution is simply to build a new bridge.

Rather than locations east of the Auckland Harbour Bridge, I suggest that a new bridge would be best extending on the western side for northward traffic, keeping well away from Wynyard Quarter, whilst retaining the Auckland Harbour Bridge for southward traffic giving the two eastern lanes 7m wide for walking, cycling and lookouts (adding wind and rain protection) continuing seaward all the way to Esmond Rd.

Going on recent examples, such as the 2.5km long Gordie Howe bridge in Detroit due to be finished in 2024, the cost of a new bridge will be significantly less than the tandem currently being concocted, and it would be a more worthwhile addition to the Waitematā.

Since picking up the Labour Government's pledge to build the popularly backed Skypath/Seapath,the smart lightweight composite design that had been thoroughly peer reviewed, costed at $50m and achieved resource consent in 2016, the NZTA has embarked upon a strange odyssey with its delivery.

Four years later, the plans for Seapath now follow a convoluted inland route at $250m, and, in the place of SkyPath, we have a new concept visualisation design of a standalone boxy-looking steel bridge for pedestrians and cyclists, with an estimated cost of $685m and very little else.

Little wonder organised storming of the Auckland Harbour Bridge by cyclists and walkers is back in the news, creating all sorts of divisive controversy.

To future-proof and provide a backup crossing, the NZTA earlier ambitiously proposed a tunnel under the Waitematā. This would be a massive project, somehow entering through the regenerating Wynyard Quarter and daylighting somewhere around Esmond Rd to then merge with traffic coming off the Auckland Harbour Bridge which would be retained.

Back in 2012, the cost estimate for the tunnel crossing was $4 to $5 billion. Last heard, that had spiralled upwards to $10 billion.

A new state-of-the-art bridge would head westwards from Pt Erin/Westhaven, stepping across Curran St and the reef, then beginning to curve before Watchman Island and sweeping out to acknowledge the channel before hooking back into the stem of Northcote Pt, with a short 250m surgically inserted tunnel through to the east to emerge seamlessly into the northern motorway past Sulphur Beach.

As it would be longer than the Auckland Harbour Bridge the gradient would be less of a climb. Passage for trams, walkers and cyclists could be alongside or perhaps sheltered better beneath.

The actual form of the bridge could be quite simple, the curved form with a series of long legs would be restrained and elegant enough to fit the outstanding surroundings.

A good example of such a curving bridge is the pre-stressed concrete and steel girder Coronado Bridge in San Diego, which is five lanes wide and high enough at 61m to allow the US Navy Pacific Fleet to pass under.

As to figuring what NZTA's endgame of all of this is, my guess is that if we accept the new pedestrian bridge, then the ground will be cleared for the underwater tunnel to get the green light.

Do the taxpayers want to be saddled with a $10 billion invoice?

Perhaps now, with all the public stress around on how best to cross the harbour, the time has come for this to be reviewed and something more fitting proposed for crossing the uniquely lyrical coastline and central water body we call the Waitematā.

• Garth Falconer is an urban designer, director of Reset Urban Design and author of Living in Paradox:a history of urban design across kaianga, towns and cities in New Zealand.

Sounds the most practical solution, but what’s the cost?
 

Miket12

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 20, 2012
9,471
Sounds the most practical solution, but what’s the cost?
He's compared it to the Gordie Howe bridge in Detroit which has an estimated cost of $6 Billion NZD which is still significantly less that the NZTA proposal of a cycle bridge plus a tunnel for public transport of $11 Billion NZD and the tunnel wouldn't be started until at least 2035... so expect that cost to got up significantly.

It's also worth noting that neither the second road bridge option with light rail or the tunnel prices include the cost of light rail or train corridors on the Shore or the additional cost of the engines/passenger cars.
 

brightman

1st Grade Fringe
May 18, 2012
3,659
Auckland
And then apologise 48 years later.
Sounds exactly like a "Graham Annesley weekly football briefing".

"Yes, that pass should have been pulled up as forward. But, seeing that it was the Warriors they were playing and the fact they scored the deciding try directly from the pass the on field ref and bunker decided it wouldn't bother anyone they knew"
 
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