General Auckland Waterfront Stadium

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
7,280
i am often behind when it comes to local matters of auckland, but shipping comes predominantly from Australia and therefore from the east, arriving in the west doesnt it? Therefore wouldnt it make sense to just move shipping to manakau and build a bigger port there than moving it to Wangarei etc?

I know they talked about moving stuff to tamaki or was that just the fuel tanks?
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
14,056
i am often behind when it comes to local matters of auckland, but shipping comes predominantly from Australia and therefore from the east, arriving in the west doesnt it? Therefore wouldnt it make sense to just move shipping to manakau and build a bigger port there than moving it to Wangarei etc?

I know they talked about moving stuff to tamaki or was that just the fuel tanks?
The problem with Manukau is getting through the heads. It would need permanent dredging. Maybe they considered that when Manukau was mentioned.

If one looks at Sydney where the cargo went to Botany and is now going to Port Kembla and Newcastle one would think the only problem with Northland is the infrastructure cost in rail access. The Firth of Thames is just a dream and Tauranga is too small. Marsden Point is a massive port area.
 
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Miket12

Warriors 1st Grader
Apr 20, 2012
7,549
The problem with Manukau is getting through the heads. It would need permanent dredging. Maybe they considered that when Manukau was mentioned.

If one looks at Sydney where the cargo went to Botany and is now going to Port Kembla and Newcastle one would think the only problem with Northland is the infrastructure cost in rail access. The Firth of Thames is just a dream and Tauranga is too small. Marsden Point is a massive port area.
Moving the shipping would also help two certain list MP’s from Northland who otherwise wouldn’t have a hope in hell of winning the actual seats.
 
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Mr Brownstone

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 9, 2014
2,253
Tauranga can move 2.8m TEU containers each year under its master plan, currently moving 1.2m, Auckland currently taking around 800k and hasn’t grown in years because Maersk are now sending nearly all their central/upper North Island volume to Tauranga. Will require capital both at the port and on the rail network however there’s heaps of capacity at Tauranga. Northport will eventually see containers however that shouldn’t be for 20 years.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
14,056
Tauranga can move 2.8m TEU containers each year under its master plan, currently moving 1.2m, Auckland currently taking around 800k and hasn’t grown in years because Maersk are now sending nearly all their central/upper North Island volume to Tauranga. Will require capital both at the port and on the rail network however there’s heaps of capacity at Tauranga. Northport will eventually see containers however that shouldn’t be for 20 years.
Are used cars included in the container total? I cannot see the point in all that bother for used cars. As for the 20 years, I think that is very optimistic unless the government wins lotto, every week for that time.
 
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Mr Brownstone

1st Grade Fringe
Nov 9, 2014
2,253
Are used cars included in the container total? I cannot see the point in all that bother for used cars. As for the 20 years, I think that is very optimistic unless the government wins lotto, every week for that time.
Cars are seperate to containers unless shipping lines transport them in otherwise empty imported containers which NZ needs due to having more export volume. Cars are actually a decent chance of being shifted to Northport and Tauranga in the next few years although Ports of Auckland makes a heap coin off them so won’t give them up without a fight (building ugly car park building on the waterfront).
 
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wrighty

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 17, 2018
1,554
Yeoman & Fairgray: Where is the economic case for moving the Ports of Auckland?

It looks like the major problem with going North is the cost. That would be because the planning should have been done 30 years ago, and wasn't, so now is going to cost a massive amount of money.

Does anybody know just where they were going to put a deep water port on the Firth of Thames?

It probably would be cheaper in the short term, but is the engineering viable?
This article is behind a pay wall, happy to read another if you have one handy.

i think there is room on the political spectrum for a single interest party that focuses on lobbying for infrastructure expenditure.

Lets blow some budget deficits and
1) Either build this Whangerei port or upgrade North Port
2) Build a high speed rail network linking up the major North Island centres:
Auckland, the Tron, Tauranga, Wellington at a minimum
3) A tunnel or fricking immense bridge across the cook straight.
4) High speed commuter trains for all the major North Island centres plus CHCH

Telecommunications isn't cutting it. We need to collaborate together face to face easily and quickly and air transport needs some alternatives.

We need to cut down on time commuting and travelling and GDP will respond to pay off the investment rapidly.
 

Geoffpublic

1st Grade Fringe
Dec 7, 2018
136
The tunnel North of Auckland already has small queues every time I return from my mates place up North. That and current roads wouldn't handle the extra traffic. Good luck making the tunnel and road wider.

Leave the wharf. Spend half a billion of that money on a" Bankwest Stadium "at MT Smart. Add superior public transport options to the stadium and they don't need to import a car for me.
 
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dean

1st Grade Fringe
Mar 13, 2016
774
Govt saying it will borrow billions to fund massive infrastructure spending. North Port will be part of this. They still can't safely say they don't need the support of NZ First.
Announcing North Port spend up before the election will probably save NZ First, nothing else will.
 
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Gizzyfan

Warriors 1st Grader
Jan 2, 2013
3,891
i am often behind when it comes to local matters of auckland, but shipping comes predominantly from Australia and therefore from the east, arriving in the west doesnt it? Therefore wouldnt it make sense to just move shipping to manakau and build a bigger port there than moving it to Wangarei etc?

I know they talked about moving stuff to tamaki or was that just the fuel tanks?
Really all the Ports are on the East Coast, Whangarei, Auckland, Tauranga, Gisborne, Napier, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin.

I am confident once the Port moves Auckland can organise a hop scotch court within 5-10 years.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
14,056
The tunnel North of Auckland already has small queues every time I return from my mates place up North. That and current roads wouldn't handle the extra traffic. Good luck making the tunnel and road wider.
Absolutely.

The CEO of Mainfreight said some time ago that what is needed is a commuter line between Whangarei and Hamilton. One would assume he knows a little about logistics. I also assume he meant a freight line as well...somewhere, although where else it could go on an isthmus is anybody's guess.

That would be massive, interest rates are cheap and the initial impact on the economy would be strong. The logistics of planning and land appropriation would be massive though.

The city needs an alternative to the current SH1 harbour crossing. If they use west Auckland, like the pioneers did, there is no need for another expensive harbour crossing. I am sure that hasn't gone unnoticed. All the new bridges in Sydney are to the west of the Harbour Bridge, there must be something they can learn from that.

If that were to happen the only problem for commuters would be the rail speed because our gauges are too narrow. No point having a train from Whangarei that takes 6 hours to get here.

All that is solvable. In China they would just press gang a whole lot of unemployed workers and bulldoze everything in the way. In Auckland it takes them three years to fuck up a cycle lane in Grey Lynn. No joking ladies and jellybeans.

Now where were we, a new stadium, I see Sydney are having problems with the new SFS. I think I will keep my seats at MSS until I drop dead.
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
14,056
I am posting this here because it seems the most appropriate place.

Tonight I watched on TV a half full Eden Park hosting a 40 over match against the best team in the world, in a city full of Indians. Sorry guys, but can somebody tell me that we need a stadium that size just for one All Black test a year?

Add to that the surface is crap, as evidenced by what seemed to be poor fielding, but was actually a crap surface that seems to be a bit of an open secret.

Also, if the NZ Herald is correct, Australian Rugby is on its knees, ten seconds away from a KO, and the SAFFAs are getting ready to go to the northern hemisphere to make a 7 nations. They seem to be moving now while the Sanzar thing is still alive so that they have some bargaining power up north. If they wait any longer they will be begging to be let in.

One thing for sure is that the NRL, for all its massive warts and moronic executives, will keep on keeping on, challenged only by the AFL, which has probably only affected rugby union in the east, not rugby league.

So ladies and jellybeans, as I also hear the average attendance at a Blues game is half that of the Warriors, why not just invite the pricks over to MSS, and spend some money on the joint so it can take an All Black test.

Just asking like.
 

gREVUS

Long live the Rainbows and Butterflies
Contributor
May 8, 2012
7,280
saw an article couple of days ago, where they were planning on delivering uni classes at the MCG. a shared stadium, that is regularly more than half full. i assume classes will not be in the stands and this is about making even more money, by using meeting rooms etc.
 
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matiunz

Piss it off!!!
Contributor
Jul 15, 2013
6,582
Sydney
I am posting this here because it seems the most appropriate place.

Tonight I watched on TV a half full Eden Park hosting a 40 over match against the best team in the world, in a city full of Indians. Sorry guys, but can somebody tell me that we need a stadium that size just for one All Black test a year?

Add to that the surface is crap, as evidenced by what seemed to be poor fielding, but was actually a crap surface that seems to be a bit of an open secret.

Also, if the NZ Herald is correct, Australian Rugby is on its knees, ten seconds away from a KO, and the SAFFAs are getting ready to go to the northern hemisphere to make a 7 nations. They seem to be moving now while the Sanzar thing is still alive so that they have some bargaining power up north. If they wait any longer they will be begging to be let in.

One thing for sure is that the NRL, for all its massive warts and moronic executives, will keep on keeping on, challenged only by the AFL, which has probably only affected rugby union in the east, not rugby league.

So ladies and jellybeans, as I also hear the average attendance at a Blues game is half that of the Warriors, why not just invite the pricks over to MSS, and spend some money on the joint so it can take an All Black test.

Just asking like.
Think if Union went under in NZ it’d have a massive flow on effect to League in NZ and to an extension the NRL. Like it or not many NZ League players have at least some Union in their history and most schools around the country simply don’t have league as an option- both sports fates are intertwined. If Union disappeared I don’t think league would take its place, like it or not Union is a hell of a lot more organised and professional in NZ and if they’re struggling I can only image what league would be like.
AFL are ruthless in Aus- they want to be top dog and are aggressive in trying to achieve it. Can only speak for NSW but they swooped on Northern Sydney when the bears went and now own it (mainly to unions detrement), they’ve swooped into the bush and are slowly winning and they are aggressively making strong inroads in the gws area which is traditionally leagues stronghold. Canberra is being overtaken also.
For all their antics we need SA, Aus and the PIs won’t cut it financially, Argentina and Japan are options but travel is an issue still so would be interesting if they stuck around.
Yes Eden Park probably needs to go but we also need to address the downturn in attendances and participation otherwise while your pissing on the grave of one sport it won’t be long til other sports follow suit
 

bruce

Warriors 1st Grader
Contributor
Sep 1, 2015
14,056
Yes Eden Park probably needs to go but we also need to address the downturn in attendances and participation otherwise while your pissing on the grave of one sport it won’t be long til other sports follow suit
I remember speaking to a now deceased administrator of our game over 20 years ago. This guy was a respected professional and noted historian on the whole game from way back in the 1890s.

He was of the opinion that as union had then gone professional the only difference between the games was the snob value from the northern hemisphere. He believed they were jealous of the success of rugby league so would try to take it over, somehow. Well they seem to be giving it a good go in England, but haven't got there yet.

Around that time the ARU were gung ho about going professional, and caused a lot of trouble along the way, I am surprised it has taken this long for them to bite the dust, but that seems to be the case. No need to piss on their grave.

Also about that then the NZRU were told they could not survive in a professional game. Give them a pat on the back because they are still going strong but the alarm bells must be ringing.

I forgot to mention, we both agreed f there was one code of rugby in the southern hemisphere the game would need us, not the other way around. So maybe Boy George and the ARU are not as silly as they sound having the joint game, excep[t it should be at MSS, not Eden PArk.
 
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Johnnyray

1st Grade Fringe
Oct 11, 2014
2,164
I am posting this here because it seems the most appropriate place.

Tonight I watched on TV a half full Eden Park hosting a 40 over match against the best team in the world, in a city full of Indians. Sorry guys, but can somebody tell me that we need a stadium that size just for one All Black test a year?

Add to that the surface is crap, as evidenced by what seemed to be poor fielding, but was actually a crap surface that seems to be a bit of an open secret.

Also, if the NZ Herald is correct, Australian Rugby is on its knees, ten seconds away from a KO, and the SAFFAs are getting ready to go to the northern hemisphere to make a 7 nations. They seem to be moving now while the Sanzar thing is still alive so that they have some bargaining power up north. If they wait any longer they will be begging to be let in.

One thing for sure is that the NRL, for all its massive warts and moronic executives, will keep on keeping on, challenged only by the AFL, which has probably only affected rugby union in the east, not rugby league.

So ladies and jellybeans, as I also hear the average attendance at a Blues game is half that of the Warriors, why not just invite the pricks over to MSS, and spend some money on the joint so it can take an All Black test.

Just asking like.
Again I don't know but I think the future of Super Rugby competition now that South Africa is all but certain to pull out is ironically with Global Rapid Rugby, an alternative international rugby competition that was started by the Australian Billionaire owner of The Western Force, after they were dropped from Super Rugby all way back in 2016. With that I don't see Auckland Blues folding and moving out of Eden Park but what I can see happening is them amalgamating with Pacific Island based team, playing half of their home games in Islands and other half here in Auckland, alongside Waikato Chiefs who I can eventually see them moving up to Auckland and playing at least half of their games here as well for money. So I'm sorry but I don't see Eden Park going anywhere in the short term but what I do see is that Auckland Council does need to put in some kind of long term plan to build a stadium somewhere else as Eden Park just won't cut it if I'm right ...

:bag:
 
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matiunz

Piss it off!!!
Contributor
Jul 15, 2013
6,582
Sydney
Again I don't know but I think the future of Super Rugby competition now that South Africa is all but certain to pull out is ironically with Global Rapid Rugby, an alternative international rugby competition that was started by the Australian Billionaire owner of The Western Force, after they were dropped from Super Rugby all way back in 2016. With that I don't see Auckland Blues folding and moving out of Eden Park but what I can see happening is them amalgamating with Pacific Island based team, playing half of their home games in Islands and other half here in Auckland, alongside Waikato Chiefs who I can eventually see them moving up to Auckland and playing at least half of their games here as well for money. So I'm sorry but I don't see Eden Park going anywhere in the short term but what I do see is that Auckland Council does need to put in some kind of long term plan to build a stadium somewhere else as Eden Park just won't cut it if I'm right ...

:bag:
Chiefs won’t move, they get solid crowds where they are. Standard of Global rapid Rugby is absolutely shit and amateur- if Super rugby folded it’d just rebrand as a new comp or put ABs back into the Mitre10 cup and maybe play some sort of champions league. Petty but another bugbear is it hasn’t been the ‘Auckland’ Blues or ‘Waikato’ chiefs for over 20 years-they’re franchises that are made up of multiple provinces
 

wizards rage

1st Grade Fringe
Apr 18, 2016
970
Tauranga
Again I don't know but I think the future of Super Rugby competition now that South Africa is all but certain to pull out is ironically with Global Rapid Rugby, an alternative international rugby competition that was started by the Australian Billionaire owner of The Western Force, after they were dropped from Super Rugby all way back in 2016. With that I don't see Auckland Blues folding and moving out of Eden Park but what I can see happening is them amalgamating with Pacific Island based team, playing half of their home games in Islands and other half here in Auckland, alongside Waikato Chiefs who I can eventually see them moving up to Auckland and playing at least half of their games here as well for money. So I'm sorry but I don't see Eden Park going anywhere in the short term but what I do see is that Auckland Council does need to put in some kind of long term plan to build a stadium somewhere else as Eden Park just won't cut it if I'm right ...

:bag:
Crowds are a tiny part of pro sports revenue. It’s all in the tv/online deal. All pro sports should lower their gate price to pack out the stadiums every game.
 

Geoffpublic

1st Grade Fringe
Dec 7, 2018
136
I'm against a large rectangular stadium.
US sports growth has been driven by Fantasy teams. Most will subscribe to tv to watch players but not teams. Many have no intention of seeing a live game.
Fox understands this, Supercoach 1st place =$50,000 vs NRL Fantasy 1st place = $5,000 & a trip for 2 watching the 9s.
In last years UEFA final 1/3 of the 60,000 tickets were not available to the public. In my eyes big stadiums have no atmosphere for small crowds and bugger all extra public tickets for big games.

FWIW everyones had a year to plan for no Australian Union pay tv deal and its implications.