General Attack Or Defence?

If you had to chose. Which one is needed most to win games?


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tamati15

tamati15

Since saturday I've been thinking where did we go wrong against the eels, what was the main problem?
Ive had so many what if's and its just doing my head in to be honest.
The main question I've asked myself is what is more important, Attack or Defence.

Even though not many people will agree with me I think Attack is where we need to step up if we want to be contenders this year and I know you'll be thinking, "but we had 40 points scored against us, its definately the defence we need to improve!" but I don't agree (although I'll change my mind 30 more times before our second game)

My reasons why I think attack is more important

The aim of the game is to have the most points at the end of 80 minutes, why focus on defence if we not getting any points?
The more we attack the more they have to defend, In most games I've watched the team attacking usually wins.
It uses a lot more energy defending then it does to attack if we stop worrying about our defence and put a lot more effort into getting through our sets and doing something with it when it comes to the last tackle we should have them under the pump and get points off it!
The key is to keep the ball in hands and we won't have to defend as much.

This week instead of us going out and worry about keeping them to 0 points, I want to see them go out and just keep the ball in hand and look for the repeat sets and see how we go.

Just wondering what other peoples thoughts are?
 
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tamati15

tamati15

Thats rule i usually go by but the more I've been thinking about it the more I think Attack before defence.
 
Ryan

Ryan

Heritage Member
Just wondering what other peoples thoughts are?
You. McClennan. House. Fire.[DOUBLEPOST=1363319858][/DOUBLEPOST]...but seriously. In my opinion, the dynamics are quite a bit more complicated than simply "attack" and "defense", but however one considers it, compromising on anything to focus on another is just going to lead to heartbreak by a better team (i.e. one that has all their shit sorted).
 
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Sir Bluey

Sir Bluey

This week instead of us going out and worry about keeping them to 0 points, I want to see them go out and just keep the ball in hand and look for the repeat sets and see how we go.

Just wondering what other peoples thoughts are?

The Warriors have a philosophy that they will produce a home grown championship team!.....that is their problem!
 
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wallacenz

wallacenz

if the warriors had coverted some of their attacking chances at the start of the eels game maybe it would have been a different story and given them confidence. They didnt so that possibly destroyed their confidence.

They dont seem to have the stamina mentally or physically to stay in a tight game atm.
 
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tamati15

tamati15

You. McClennan. House. Fire.[DOUBLEPOST=1363319858][/DOUBLEPOST]...but seriously. In my opinion, the dynamics are quite a bit more complicated than simply "attack" and "defense", but however one considers it, compromising on anything to focus on another is just going to lead to heartbreak by a better team (i.e. one that has all their shit sorted).

yeah thats a good point, but you look at our forward pack most are known as "tacklebots" Its seems we've gone out a brought players known for their solid defence?
It just like our team is built around what is meant to be good defence. I don't see the point in that if they arent going to defend. What is the point in having pretty much a whole team that aren't great attackers but brought because they can defend? We have all these solid defending players but yet we aren't winning games. I just think we need to take a different approach to the paddock.[DOUBLEPOST=1363320627][/DOUBLEPOST]
if the warriors had coverted some of their attacking chances at the start of the eels game maybe it would have been a different story and given them confidence. They didnt so that possibly destroyed their confidence.

They dont seem to have the stamina mentally or physically to stay in a tight game atm.

Yeah I just think that if we done something with the ball we had at the start of the game it would be a completely different ball game.
For me the key is not to let any of our ball possession to waste.
 
Ryan

Ryan

Heritage Member
yeah thats a good point, but you look at our forward pack most are known as "tacklebots" Its seems we've gone out a brought players known for their solid defence?
It just like our team is built around what is meant to be good defence. I don't see the point in that if they arent going to defend. What is the point in having pretty much a whole team that aren't great attackers but brought because they can defend? We have all these solid defending players but yet we aren't winning games. I just think we need to take a different approach to the paddock.


Are you suggesting that the team's defense issues could be rectified by focusing on attack? Because, well, that just don't follow.
 
Mr Frank White

Mr Frank White

Agree with OP to a point. Every minute we have the ball, it's one minute less the opposition had to attack. Plus I'd rather the players are tired from running in tries than defending fur 10 consecutive sets.
Problem is with the defence only mentality is that one that fails & your behind on the score board, you have no game plan. If you go it the with the thought of control the ball, repeat sets, starve the opposition then defend like madmen, your never out of the game.
If they put 2 quick tries on you, the game plan is still valid.
Not only that, but that plan leads the other team to panicking, pushing passes, committing penalties etc.

In fact in that para game our defense was pretty brutal for the first 20. We just kept giving them chances and not many teams can soak up set after set in their own twenty.
 
Gizzyfan

Gizzyfan

IMO the problem is both, the issue is team work, for that they need focus and that is missing. Everything is done in ones. Shaun Johnson doing his headless chook runs, no focus of people running into gaps, Johnstone setting up half gaps, no backing up etc. The same as defence, communication, committment and concentration. For both attack and defence it is the willingness to get involved. Do you see Slater clock off ?, don't think so.

A classic is Hurrell, he is wasted as when he has the ball there are no bodies in motion around him to put defenders in two minds. He is hard to stop but they can put the bodies into the tackle because there is no one to feed of him. Rugby (both codes) are fundamentally simple. It is about the rest of the team putting one man over the line. The Warriors system of using one man against the entire opposition was proven wrong a century or so ago
 
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Kendrick

Kendrick

Too much one-off running in attack, no testing the opposition with ball movement and offloads like we do when we're at our best. Leaves the opposition confident with their defence and doesn't take enough petrol out of their tank so they have a lot more sting in their own offence. Our line speed definitely needs to be upped, and communication and controlled aggression is lacking, and I also think we just don't hate losing enough. Our commitment on defence is bad and needs attention but there's more to it than just bad defence and attitude.

I think the main reason everyone thinks we're so unfit is because we're not testing the other team; it's not just purely fitness levels but the way we're actually playing the game. How often do you see the other team actually looking tired when they play us? Come the end of the game and the defensive line is still sprinting. We look fucked by comparison because we haven't worn the other team down. Then you'll see the same team next week looking shattered by the end of their game. We get through our sets far too quickly, put the opposition to ground far too quickly and just go looking for a try off a bomb or miracle pass rather than rolling the ball in goal and putting in a strong kick chase to keep them in-goal. Wear them down then try the flashy stuff that we know we're capable of. We don't have the patience or discipline at the moment.

Going back to the way we wore down the Storm in the finals in 2011. We shifted the ball, completed our sets and attacked with our defence until they broke. Perfect display of grinding a win with a bit of magic to top it off. The way Johnson terrorised them with grubbers into the in-goal, getting repeat seats then putting them to the sword with creative attack was so incredible I couldn't believe it was the Warriors. Why do you think so often we see teams score a couple of amazing attacking tries right at the death to clinch the game? Because the opposition has been worn down and the miracle plays and passes stick. That kind of shit would very rarely come off at the start of the game.

So basically, instill some patience into our young team. Early in the game we need to concentrate on completing sets (yawn), with the priority of our last tackle options to be to put the opposition under pressure rather than score a try - move the oppostion around with smart structured passing and low-risk offloads. Keep the fancy shit in the back pocket for a while and have confidence in the game plan, knowing that there'll be an opening for that kind of play but let it happen, don't push it and try too hard to make it happen. People (especially the Aussie media) rave about our attacking ability, and it's true all the ingredients are there, but we're not seeing it because we don't have the patience to let it come. If we get that blend right we'll be one hell of a team.
 
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mt.wellington

mt.wellington

Warriors Orange Peeler
DEFENCE! Simple.

Ive harped on about this before but I once saw an interview that Cameron Smith did and he said that to make a Bellamy coached team you must first know how to tackle above all else or you simply wont get spot on the team. Ask Maloney!

The attack strategy was sorely exposed by Bluey as abit of a stupid one. How many 18 point leads did we give up? Not saying that attack isnt important but with the talent in every backline in the NRL, points are sure to come. Cleary built his whole coaching tenure at the Warriors trying to improve our defence. All that work was undone in one season...
 
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HornbyBrown

HornbyBrown

DEFENCE! Simple.

Ive harped on about this before but I once saw an interview that Cameron Smith did and he said that to make a Bellamy coached team you must first know how to tackle above all else or you simply wont get spot on the team. Ask Maloney!

The attack strategy was sorely exposed by Bluey as abit of a stupid one. How many 18 point leads did we give up? Not saying that attack isnt important but with the talent in every backline in the NRL, points are sure to come. Cleary built his whole coaching tenure at the Warriors trying to improve our defence. All that work was undone in one season...


Great post. Defence wins champioships. If they cant score they cant win. If we score lots of points but they score one more we lose.[DOUBLEPOST=1363331855][/DOUBLEPOST]Also attack is easier to do because it's fun. (I'm a rugby player) Defence really shows if you have balls and the attitude to win.
 
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wallacenz

wallacenz

Agree re defence but I think theres more to this teams problems. They just seem to lack that urgency to run back into position, get their line set, push forward, tackle, then do it again. its a combo of fitness, desire and technique i reckon. like jumping up when you have to tackle head on or trying to grab a jersey instead of driving in the shoulder, thats amateur stuff
 
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HornbyBrown

HornbyBrown

Agree re defence but I think theres more to this teams problems. They just seem to lack that urgency to run back into position, get their line set, push forward, tackle, then do it again. its a combo of fitness, desire and technique i reckon. like jumping up when you have to tackle head on or trying to grab a jersey instead of driving in the shoulder, thats amateur stuff


Good defence would show that they have the right attitude and they would be running back to get in position.
 
Raurimu Massive

Raurimu Massive

Watching the Souffs-Cronulla game last night, one thing that really stuck out is that on both defense and attack we are so fucking slow it's not funny. Spend a lot more time working on speed and urgency and both attack and defense might actually improve. [user]facefacts[/user], you were right - we're a bunch of snails on the paddock, in nearly every facet of the game.
 
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facefacts

Watching the Souffs-Cronulla game last night, one thing that really stuck out is that on both defense and attack we are so fucking slow it's not funny. Spend a lot more time working on speed and urgency and both attack and defense might actually improve. [user]facefacts[/user], you were right - we're a bunch of snails on the paddock, in nearly every facet of the game.


Boy those Sharks looked well coached and highly motivated, their players were constantly in motion on attack giving options to Carney, and on Defense were seriously switched on...they just lack a bit of backline quality to really burn the opposition. We could be in real trouble on Sunday, unless we get much better or they get much worse.
 
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Raurimu Massive

Raurimu Massive

Boy those Sharks looked well coached and highly motivated, their players were constantly in motion on attack giving options to Carney, and on Defense were seriously switched on...they just lack a bit of backline quality to really burn the opposition. We could be in real trouble on Sunday, unless we get much better or they get much worse.

Christ, our lot don't even seem motivated enough to get up quickly when they're tackled. Compare that to the likes of Waerea-Hargreaves, who's struggling like mad to get up before he's even hit the ground. The only word to describe our approach is 'meek'. The most frustrating thing is that despite our lack of speed and urgency, we're still competitive (sometimes) - hell, we even went to the GF with a slow, meek team. If they sort that out (and it's solely a mental issue) we'll be looking at the dynasty we believe can happen.
 
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Danpatmac

Guest
Hurrell is guilty of the slowest play-the-ball in the NRL, he is slower moving than a glacier.

Watching Uate and M.Gordon over the weekend... they are just fast at everything they do. I think Fish is right up there too.
 
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