Staff Andrew Webster

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Wrighty

Wrighty

What field kicking options do we have?
Shaun Johnson - will have to almost kick on every play, need a back up
Te Maire Martin - Haven't seen him kick too much
Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad - Haven't seen him kick at all
Egan - rarely kicks
Metcalf - Not sure, more of a runner
Volkman - Not sure how much 1st grade he'll get
Lussick - No idea

Last year we had:
Shaun Johnson, Chanel Harris-Tavita, Asi, Walsh
Metcalf worked hard to upgrade his kicking.
In 2021 he averaged 54metres per game in NSW cup
But in 2022 he averaged 198 metres

Metcalf is a legit kicking option.
 
Gizzyfan

Gizzyfan

Great discussion point.

Rugby league halves in England are better at passing than anything in NZ Union or Austrailian RL.

Australian RL halves are on a par with NZ Union.

What you are criticizing here is NZ RL halves.

In NZ RL skills are coached by Ted and Bill and Rangi who played in the NZ comp which has fewer than one hundred men who might be better than club league rubbish under club coaches who have zero formal experience in their sport.

Ergo to put your argument in context Sam Tomkins was a better passer of the football than anyone who ever played in NZ RL.

Henry Paul was a better passer of the ball as an ESL product than any RU player in sevens.

England produces the best passers in the world because that is how they play in the backs.

English League halves grow up as passers of the ball, no Allblack ever threw balls as good as Tomkins cut out flat balls....show me evidence of any All Black or Springbok or Wallaby who even came near Tomkins edge plays using ball to beat man in a thousand replays......


Sorry but what you are asserting is that Union halves have better training than someone at Papakura league club under Joe Bloggs from nowhere who watched a bunch of TV games and his kid asked him to coach his under 5s team.

Of course Union halves have better training.


However RL still owns the mantle of superior passing skills.

In RL forwards pass like Ali and SWB.

Passing is a RL skill that even Props are expert at in some teams.

So again what you are talking about really, is the difference between All Black pathways under the NZRFU vs the NZL RL less than 5k registered men women and kids joke of a competition the Warriors fare very poorly at talent scouting from.

I agree with you raising the difference. But I feel the need to caution...there is a reason the ALl Blacks are too scared to accept the Kangaroos challenge to a hybrid game.

If the Blacks had big balls they would just wipe the Roos to prove a point.

But instead the NZRFU come up with lame arse excuses.

Bottom line...let not League fans ever forget that RL issued the challenge to the ALL BLACKS and the BLACKS have never manned up....pretty much end of story.

There is a saying all us Jungle rumblers understand...put up or shut up..well the Aussies put up......

I expect lots of wanky replies in defence of the Union....but answer me this....


Where were your peeps when the Aussie leaguies said lets fight? hiding behind convention.

Honestly, the Blacks should have manned up because they are a decent chance of winning and I would back them because I am a NZder 1st, even though I hate...Union....really fkn hate those racist kients.....from my own childhood of being canned by Union flogs......But I would back the blacks against any Aus team....but the Blacks chickened out in this real world no bs talk example of what actually happened when League asked them for a fight...the strongest team in Union ran away.....end of discusion based on facts.

If League ran away from an Allblack challenge I would own it.

But watch the excuses roll in from this word to truth factual post.

If this is a weak defence, so be it. I am sure the ABs would love to give it a go, but until the NZRU sees good marketing (money) it will not happen. There will be respect both ways I am sure.

Players in both codes need to learn how to pass, just as importantly how to position themselves. Both codes have the same mantra, possession, position pace. It is not only the passer of the ball, the catcher has to be in the right position to maintain the pace of attack.

In Union the best passers were the French, You see still shots of a player in the act of passing and his support runner stretching his hands towards the passer. Apparently that was something the Warriors practised under Daniel Anderson. It means that if you push your hands towards the passer it keeps your run straight, and the sooner it is in your hands the sooner you can distribute and gives you that split second for options.

British League passing is a joy to watch, my question is, how much is that down to space that wouldn't be there if they an NRL team, but as a skill they are great.

It is not only League in NZ with poor pathways. I was shocked to be told they are getting young guys with contracts in Super Rugby who do not know how to draw and pass.
 
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Rick O'Shay

Rick O'Shay

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English League halves grow up as passers of the ball, no Allblack ever threw balls as good as Tomkins cut out flat balls....show me evidence of any All Black or Springbok or Wallaby who even came near Tomkins edge plays using ball to beat man in a thousand replays......
Just my opinion but the Ella Bros and the likes of Michael Hawker were pretty good with edge plays and cut outs. Maybe they kicked the Steeden around in their spare time as well.

The other thing with RU in its earlier formats (before stifling defensive lines) was that backs were expected to practice and have the skill to beat a man one on one.
 
Defence

Defence

Great discussion point.

Rugby league halves in England are better at passing than anything in NZ Union or Austrailian RL.

Australian RL halves are on a par with NZ Union.

What you are criticizing here is NZ RL halves.

In NZ RL skills are coached by Ted and Bill and Rangi who played in the NZ comp which has fewer than one hundred men who might be better than club league rubbish under club coaches who have zero formal experience in their sport.

Ergo to put your argument in context Sam Tomkins was a better passer of the football than anyone who ever played in NZ RL.

Henry Paul was a better passer of the ball as an ESL product than any RU player in sevens.

England produces the best passers in the world because that is how they play in the backs.

English League halves grow up as passers of the ball, no Allblack ever threw balls as good as Tomkins cut out flat balls....show me evidence of any All Black or Springbok or Wallaby who even came near Tomkins edge plays using ball to beat man in a thousand replays......


Sorry but what you are asserting is that Union halves have better training than someone at Papakura league club under Joe Bloggs from nowhere who watched a bunch of TV games and his kid asked him to coach his under 5s team.

Of course Union halves have better training.


However RL still owns the mantle of superior passing skills.



I agree with you raising the difference. But I feel the need to caution...there is a reason the ALl Blacks are too scared to accept the Kangaroos challenge to a hybrid game.

If the Blacks had big balls they would just wipe the Roos to prove a point.

..
Yeah good post.
I will say though even here in Australia a lot of the coaching around catching and passing is very poor.
I’ve done a lot of junior coaching (league and touch) and spent a lot of time with the Burleigh bears junior coaches last year- teaching them skills and drills to run with their teams and the vast majority had no idea how to teach their kids catching and passing- didn’t even know where to start- and some of these guys were high level players themselves but there’s a difference between knowing how to do something and being able to be able to break those skills down and teach them to someone else.
So yes I’d agree the aussies are a long way ahead of the kiwi juniors in this department but there’s still a lot of room for improvement.
Does my head in watching Qld cup and even nrl players who can’t pass the ball both ways- wtf.
The English thing is interesting- not sure what the systems like over there but they do always seem to move the ball well.

I’m not expecting too much ball movement from this team- thinking webby will keep it simple- doesn’t have much choice really- hopefully something we can build into.
 
Sup42

Sup42

Contributor
Yeah good post.
I will say though even here in Australia a lot of the coaching around catching and passing is very poor.
I’ve done a lot of junior coaching (league and touch) and spent a lot of time with the Burleigh bears junior coaches last year- teaching them skills and drills to run with their teams and the vast majority had no idea how to teach their kids catching and passing- didn’t even know where to start- and some of these guys were high level players themselves but there’s a difference between knowing how to do something and being able to be able to break those skills down and teach them to someone else.
So yes I’d agree the aussies are a long way ahead of the kiwi juniors in this department but there’s still a lot of room for improvement.
Does my head in watching Qld cup and even nrl players who can’t pass the ball both ways- wtf.
The English thing is interesting- not sure what the systems like over there but they do always seem to move the ball well.

I’m not expecting too much ball movement from this team- thinking webby will keep it simple- doesn’t have much choice really- hopefully something we can build into.

I dunno what you are seeing in Australia as far as the move away from footballers to athletes in the Juniors?

That has had a profound impact on NZ.

If you go back to the 80s, NZ footballers that could pass like Freeman, Freind, Bell, on and on....went from a norm to these Whiz kids of the 2000s who throw balls at each others heads.

England has footballers aplenty, the issue seems to be defence in their backs, the forwards are unchanged world class footballers.
 
Last edited:
Sup42

Sup42

Contributor
Just my opinion but the Ella Bros and the likes of Michael Hawker were pretty good with edge plays and cut outs. Maybe they kicked the Steeden around in their spare time as well.

The other thing with RU in its earlier formats (before stifling defensive lines) was that backs were expected to practice and have the skill to beat a man one on one.
.

The Ella family were insanely gifted at football in both codes. Cousin Steve played for Para and Wigan and was an amazing player too.
 
The Falcon

The Falcon

Yeah good post.
I will say though even here in Australia a lot of the coaching around catching and passing is very poor.
I’ve done a lot of junior coaching (league and touch) and spent a lot of time with the Burleigh bears junior coaches last year- teaching them skills and drills to run with their teams and the vast majority had no idea how to teach their kids catching and passing- didn’t even know where to start- and some of these guys were high level players themselves but there’s a difference between knowing how to do something and being able to be able to break those skills down and teach them to someone else.
So yes I’d agree the aussies are a long way ahead of the kiwi juniors in this department but there’s still a lot of room for improvement.
Does my head in watching Qld cup and even nrl players who can’t pass the ball both ways- wtf.
The English thing is interesting- not sure what the systems like over there but they do always seem to move the ball well.

I’m not expecting too much ball movement from this team- thinking webby will keep it simple- doesn’t have much choice really- hopefully something we can build into.
I wonder if we might see some more shorter interpassing this season?
Maybe Shaun Johnson to strike up a combo with one of our back rowers like he did with Nikora at Cronulla?
Webster does seem to think it’s a team better suited to a running game and wants to craft a style around the current cattle.
Points look like they are going to come from our forwards poking their nose through the line first and foremost and then offloading to supports or creating second phase play.
 
Defence

Defence

I dunno what you are seeing in Australia as far as the move away from footballers to athletes in the Juniors?

That has had a profound impact on NZ.
Oh yeah I think that’s been going on for a long time- a lot of that comes back to the junior rep teams- I’ve been in selection meetings and it’s always the coaches pushing for the athletically gifted players- they’re not worried about development- all they wanna do is win to make themselves look good.
Not sure what the answer is there but it makes it very tough for the late bloomers.
I had two brothers I was coaching at touch- gun players but couldn’t crack any rep teams for league so they decided to have a year off to focus on their touch and train bjj- well the older one came back to League last year and had caught up a bit physically (and with his added confidence and technique from training bjj) and I heard he was absolutely smashing dudes- and now he’s picked up a scholarship.
I think that could be a template for some smaller kids moving forward.
That relationship between touch and the nrl is more important than people realize and gives them a leg up on union imo.
 
Brother Faisal

Brother Faisal

Was watching the cliffs lyons interview with Marty johns and he talked about how he would play in the off season in the uk. I imagined a lot of them did that back in the day but would have added another element to their game with the different play style.

I suppose with vastly different models that the nrl model has its particular skill set to be able to make it. Learning the art of rugby league isn’t necessarily required in the nrl. you don’t need to be skilled in all areas nor does it give you much variety of open play etc as the game is very structured today.
 

PhilsySH35

Oh yeah I think that’s been going on for a long time- a lot of that comes back to the junior rep teams- I’ve been in selection meetings and it’s always the coaches pushing for the athletically gifted players- they’re not worried about development- all they wanna do is win to make themselves look good.
Not sure what the answer is there but it makes it very tough for the late bloomers.
I had two brothers I was coaching at touch- gun players but couldn’t crack any rep teams for league so they decided to have a year off to focus on their touch and train bjj- well the older one came back to League last year and had caught up a bit physically (and with his added confidence and technique from training bjj) and I heard he was absolutely smashing dudes- and now he’s picked up a scholarship.
I think that could be a template for some smaller kids moving forward.
That relationship between touch and the nrl is more important than people realize and gives them a leg up on union imo.
I've found touch is good for spatial awareness in terms of looking for space on attack, how to run onto the ball close to the ruck off the dummy half (prop), been able to draw and drag a defender with you and then to turn it on the inside for the supporting runner. basketball is also another good sport to play to develop spatial awareness and soft hands. for me Shane Cooper (Kiwis 6 & 13) was one of the best passers of the ball, he was able to give a long flat pass (not a torpedo pass), he seemed to float the ball perfectly in front of the supporting runner and able to hit the hole hard - he was beautiful to watch. so yeah, agree touch really important in teaching kids how draw and pass, how to count off when defending. I remember when Roger TS was playing for the Roosters, he was on attack in a 2 on 2 situation, I was surprised at how he wasn't able to draw a defender to put his outside or inside man away??? I think some of our kids are too talented, they don't have to work hard to put someone away - just too gifted and talented. Can't wait, go warriors!!!
 
Ref

Ref

I like what I am seeing and hearing with Webster. IMO we will be a smarter team and improve in all facets.

There seems to be healthy competition for all spots

Does it make us top 8 material. Maybe.
Are we title contenders. Probably not.

But we should be pretty good in 2024 with the development of some of our youngsters this year and a couple of signings.
 

Mullayo

Not great form. The only other NRL coach mouthing off about guaranteed players' positions—alienating all the competitors—is Hot-Seat Holbrook.
 
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Defence

Defence

Relax, the three he spoke of were shoe ins for a spot regardless, it was just a question of which one.
And he didn’t even clarify that 😂
All he really said is that the two big marque forward signings are going to be playing in the forwards- no bombshells there.
 
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Warriorsitsouryear

Warriorsitsouryear

Relax, the three he spoke of were shoe ins for a spot regardless, it was just a question of which one.
Agreed - I would also add that we and most people would have thought that would be the case. They would also see that in the trials. As long as he doesn't name our centre and wingers too early as those are the most unknown areas ....mind you the could mean he doesn't know who will play where yet. As he has already talked about 1, 6 & 7 as well as the starting pack....
 
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