Tim burgess
We maybe surprised. At least we are seeing the return of the junior teams. That in itself is a major step up.
Makasene
I agree although there is a deeper level to 'Warriors Ball'
Those teams of the late 90s, early 2000s were juggernaught packs that laid the platform for that ball to be played and backed it up with tough defence.
Daniel Anderson did a SKY interview earlier this year and the most interesting part of it was the below:
"I was asked if I ever watched team we played the following week, of course I didn't as we had already played them and I needed to focus on the next game....they never won.
Win, lose or draw we beat teams up and their games were affected the following week"
To me, slinging offloads is not Warriors ball. Warriors ball was earning the right to push the pass.
wizards rage
Reflecting on our team
- only really 2 instead of 4 props
- constantly playing an undersized back row
- Fast but small wingers hitting it back up
- A small turn style at fullback.
We get beat up every week. And then it affects our game the following week when we get beat up again in a vicious cycle!
I think we are one on the smallest teams in the comp and it’s reflected in our defensive record and consistent scoreline blowouts
tr73
I am glad Websters background is Defence. Nothing changes with us until we can defend and make the opposition kick from poor position.
2002 is a long time ago, it would be like us referring to 1982 in that year. Every team has strong physical Pacific/Maori players, that was our point of difference 20 years. I don’t think any team in the comp has a physical advantage. They earn there wins by being fit and everyone doing the role they need too. If we want to win we have to do this better than the other teams. We have a long way to go. I hope the players and supporters are prepared to be patient and put the work in.
I am not that interested in recruiting and buying our way out of our problems, this never works. My hope is that Webster and his team can improve every player and collectively this will make us a better team
wizards rage
I think it ties back to Wrighty argument about size. We are undersized, get fatigued and steamrolled and it compounds over the season.
You can have a couple of smaller players in a dynamic pack but our balance is out. Fortunately I think our recruits will go a long way towards addressing this.
I’ve never brought into this rudimentary idea of size always wins, though I see it regularly factored in almost as if it's the greatest marker of who wins the battle of the ruck. It’s never a simple calculation of this size body vs that body or placing import on collective pack weights which I've seen expressed on occasion.
Take Kikau out of the Panthers pack and it would be close to the smallest going around. What they lack in size they more than make up for in speed/intensity, agility/mobility, aggression/attitude and their highly skilled footy players to boot. Yes, there are contributing elements that help them to get it over their opponents, their set transitions are relentlessly impeccable and their backfield yardage carries are generally excellent so getting back behind the ball is made far easier but no one can argue the effectiveness of their approach to winning contact and the ruck. Ivan has molded his roster to neatly fit his established game model, running through the rest of the forwards in the extended squad they’re not hulking giants rather it's a mix of body types as you'd expect but definitely leaning towards greater mobility and the aforementioned attributes.
Having come from the Panthers I'm curious how Webster is going to mold the forwards he has at his disposal into a cohesive unit and what that looks like within the bounds of his own game model because as tr73 pointed out our point of difference from 20 years ago no longer exists in today's game under modern rules.
snake77
Our reliance on recruitment should be short-term to get us competitive. Then we should move towards development as much as possible. If we are seen as a place that gives the young players opportunities they would be more likely to sign with us than if the path to first grade is blocked by veterans who are not performing.
Agree with your point on Polynesian players. I think the you need to relate to Polynesian players to coach the Warriors is outdated now. If you can't relate to them now you can't coach in the NRL. A lot of the coaches likely treat them like any other player now seeing as they make up such a large percentage of the playing pool.
I love you point on improving players. It's been a bit of a bug bear of mine how the last 10-15 years coaches have been so reliant on recruitment. Especially the coaches that cycle through the lower clubs. Need new players as the current crop aren't performing, need 3 years to get my roster. Or recruit for a specific game plan or rule changes. It's a bit of a crux to fall back on. Coaching is about improving the players you have not sulking and waiting until you get the players you want.
We need to get fit over the off season. Being the fittest is a bit hard to measure as the margins would be so small between the top sides. We do need to improve in that area.
When Cleary was here they mentioned one year they found they got better results when the guy had more miles in them during the off season. Not sure the distances that are in vogue at the moment as they change over the years. If shorter distances are the trend we might need to buck them. Need to get the guys grinding away for longer periods to help simulate game situations.
Paulo24
While we lack a superstar or two, I actually think good coaching can get atleast a 15-20% improvement out of this team. Perhaps another 5 wins without further recruiting.
He did mention what he was going to do with defence actually lol in the article he states, "My Warriors will be warriors and if we make a mistake will defend the try line like warriors helping each other."What was missing Bruce? he never mentioned what he was going to do about the defence Bruce
View attachment 47897
I like his passion and positivity. Seems like with Ivan and the Penrith system believing in the players give them the confidence and will to succeed, putting the onus on the players to perform.
I'm confident for the Warriors future with the SG Ball and other teams returning and also some of the young talent and players we got coming through. May take a little time for some of the young talents to develop to NRL level but at least they're working on the development side again and getting players coming through the club from a young age.
Defence
What the panthers have though is a back 3 of to'o, may and edwards who all routinely pump out 200m+ per game which takes a lot of pressure off their forward pack.
snake77
We had that. Unfortunately, our three were lacking in other areas the Panther trio also cover.
We have the same issue now with the current group. We have more speed but lack in other areas. We should be able to come out of our end with more speed. I get worried close to our line as some of our guys run too upright and are in danger of getting pushed into the in-goal.
The go-forward from the back 3 is probably lacking at the moment due to Walsh. It's not a strength and like Tomkins would prefer to pass for one of the wingers to return it if it is an option. The dynamic will change depending on who plays fullback next year.
Totally agree, getting back behind the ball isn't an issue, their back field yardage carries are exactly what you want.
Paulo24
Makes me wonder if he will prefer a Edwards type yardage fullback. If that’s the case it’s probably Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad over Te Maire Martin. Kosi can also eat metres, Dallin Watene-Zelezniak can hit the ball up but it’s more about his frequency and conditioning.
AlexM
Kosi is pretty decent at yardage and if he continues this way will be first winngr picked. Montoya and Dallin can both be outstanding too. We are missing yardage from our 1. So Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad is the better option for effort but Martins better at the other areas. If Webster keeps Montoya in the centres which tbf isn't a bad move
tr73
I think Dallin and Montoya should always be in the team based on attitude alone. They always give there best and aren’t afraid to put their bodies on the line.
That is what this brutal game requires of all players to be successful. Previous posts have referred to Dylan Edwards, he is amazing and is successful on his attitude, work ethic and reliability rather than talent.
Players across the game are getting smaller and the Panthers are a great example of this. It appears size and talent are part rather than all of the equation
AlexM
If I had to guess it would be from Nov 1st?
Beastmode
Just another day in paradise
Contributor
Very curious to see the coaching style he adopts. Assuming it will be the cool, calm Ivan Cleary approach …
Hopefully he can articulate and connect with the team on all levels. He’s got a massive challenge on his hands….
Hopefully he can articulate and connect with the team on all levels. He’s got a massive challenge on his hands….
Wrighty
I have no idea what he will be like. Have heard one thirty second sound bite and he played it conservative and said all the right things. He seemed excited by the opportunity. I am sick of changing coaches so if this guy is any good would like him to get an extended run.
